Genesi & PowerPC
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2710 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    I for one am having a blast using my Mac Mini with MorphOS on it. I used to be very eager for the ISA shift, but not anymore. It's just incredible how much you can actually use this old hardware.


    Yes, they have certainly made the most possible out of the PPC architecture by supporting the Mac HW. Everything from big boxes, to the tiny Mini, and a number of Laptops as well. This satisfies many needs from a HW perspective!

    But the machines are aging, and some stuff really needs performance, even regular everyday stuff like websites of the heavier kind and video stuff etc. At some point even interfaces will get obsolete. Today when 4k makes entry at a consumer level, things like HDMI 2.0 and DisplayPort 1.3 is what people discuss. Your Mini has a only DVI. For example.

    The MorphOS Team has everything covered regarding PPC. The PPC didn't get more and better than what is already covered. There is no "next thing" coming, only a more or less extended decay from the current point.


    Quote:

    Of course it would be nice to have more of everything but it's rarely I need it.

    I will stick with MorphOS as long as it's possible and fully support the shift when it comes. The only problem is OWB not being updated. This is not much a problem at the moment, but it will probably become one in the future.


    Well, 4k is one thing I want. Prices on monitors are coming down. DisplayPort 1.3 is breaking through, enabling 60Hz and above on very high resolutions and/or multiple displays (depending on resolution and frequency). And 4k video is breaking through, this is in the latest phone models for example.

    What is "science fiction" for current MorphOS HW is rapidly becoming every day stuff in the world outside.

    ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »29.01.16 - 14:28
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2710 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    BSzili wrote:
    If I had to choose between an ISA change and better support for the currently supported PPC hardware, I'd prefer the latter. Look at what goes on with OS4, they are constantly preoccupied with supporting new hardware, leaving existing users with almost no support.


    OS4 has support for the Articia-S based AmigaOnes (MorphOS has also support for Articia-S Pegasos 1).
    OS4 has support for the Pegasos 2, so does MorphOS.
    OS4 has support for Sam 460, so does MorphOS.
    OS4 has Sam440, MorphOS has Efika.
    OS4 will have X5000 support, MorphOS has this as well.

    OS4 has support for X1000. MorphOS does not support this, but it supports some ~80 other systems that OS4 doesn't. ;-)

    During the last decade, the supported HW list for MorphOS has exploded! For OS4, not so at all.

    Despite the rapid growth in supported platforms, I only see good support from the MorphOS team; they are very responsive, bugs are fixed very quickly, performance increased, features added and improved.

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »29.01.16 - 14:40
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    On to X64...


    So what about this piece:

    Quote:

    To the naysayers, this is NO pipedream.
    Its being explored by people with some experience in this field.
    A year from now, you will be eating your words.


    It's not valid any more? ;)
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »29.01.16 - 14:45
    Profile Visit Website
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4965 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    On to X64...


    So what about this piece:

    Quote:

    To the naysayers, this is NO pipedream.
    Its being explored by people with some experience in this field.
    A year from now, you will be eating your words.


    It's not valid any more? ;)



    Money for parts, access to complete reference design info, a new version of Cadence, and a lot of time.
    It could still work, but it would require a group effort.

    And as Andreas PM'd me:

    "Let's see what, if anything, will come out of http://www.powerpc-notebook.org"
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »29.01.16 - 18:12
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > they have certainly made the most possible out of the PPC architecture by supporting
    > the Mac HW. [...] The MorphOS Team has everything covered regarding PPC.

    Did anyone say PCIe-based G5 Macs? :-)

    > Today when 4k makes entry at a consumer level, things like HDMI 2.0 and DisplayPort 1.3
    > is what people discuss. [...] 4k is one thing I want.

    One more argument for supporting PCIe-based G5 Macs (with x86 ROM graphics cards).
  • »29.01.16 - 18:14
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2028 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    cyfm schrieb:
    Actually, it is hardly any news that the future of PowerPC arch is rather dim. That won't change the fact that we will continue to support it.


    But is ongoing ppc support affecting the ISA switch? I mean what's actually the priority: Going x64 or staying ppc? Or both in parallel?
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »01.02.16 - 08:56
    Profile Visit Website
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 56 from 2016/3/9
    Quote:

    BSzili wrote:
    If I had to choose between an ISA change and better support for the currently supported PPC hardware, I'd prefer the latter. Look at what goes on with OS4, they are constantly preoccupied with supporting new hardware, leaving existing users with almost no support.


    This is the thing that frustrates me the most about Aeon/Hyperion. The X1000 has been out for 4 years but all the spiffy hardware on the motherboard isn't fully supported yet. 3 years to get audio running? I've got zero experience writing device drivers but, come on, 3 years? And what the heck was the point in paying for the Xena that nothing beyond a hobbyist board supports?

    I love AmigaOS, have boatloads of classics tripped out, a 460 and an X1000. I've gotten into MorphOS. At this point, with the track record that Aeon/Hyperion has with development time or even finishing anything, I doubt that I'll spend any more money for OS4 software / hardware.

    I respect and appreciate Trevor for his good intentions and investment in a dream, but honestly, the end result seems to be a complete failure. They've lost money on everything to date, deliver everything years late if ever, and the decisions that they're making for the future just seems pointless and doomed to more disappointment.

    Right now, I see more value in supporting MorphOS for future "Amiga" experiences. They're meeting their promises and, more importantly, looking to and MOVING TOWARDS the future not just trying to reinvent the past. If I want a "real" Amiga experience, I'll continue to invest in my classic hardware. For the rest, I'll invest in MorphOS. I just don't see any point in investing more time and money in overpriced, underperforming vaporware.

    I guess now I'm blue :)
  • »06.05.16 - 04:24
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The X1000 has been out for 4 years [...]. 3 years to get audio running?
    > [...] come on, 3 years?

    Just to avoid any misunderstanding that may occur to other readers: OS4 support for the X1000's onboard audio appeared 1½ years after X1000 release.

    http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=867

    > overpriced, underperforming vaporware

    Sounds like an oxymoron ;-)
  • »06.05.16 - 06:48
    Profile
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 56 from 2016/3/9
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > The X1000 has been out for 4 years [...]. 3 years to get audio running?
    > [...] come on, 3 years?

    Just to avoid any misunderstanding that may occur to other readers: OS4 support for the X1000's onboard audio appeared 1½ years after X1000 release.

    http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=867



    Thanks, sorry I misspoke and was off. Maybe I'm grumpy tonight or it's sour grapes but when someone is trying to sell me something this expensive the darn thing should work 100% from day 1. Linux drivers are grand and all, but if I'm paying a premium for an "Amiga", I'm more concerned with the Amiga part working than anything else.

    To be fair, we knew that full support wasn't going to be completed for release (why?! Grrr) but it's still irksome at this price. And let's not mention OS4.2 :) I guess that's the main reason why I'm not in a lather to get an X5000 right away, if ever.
  • »06.05.16 - 07:11
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    Pgovotsos wrote:
    This is the thing that frustrates me the most about Aeon/Hyperion. The X1000 has been out for 4 years but all the spiffy hardware on the motherboard isn't fully supported yet. 3 years to get audio running?



    You have Amiga X1000 and by year and half You not install audio drivers?
    Even only to check if it works?
    I don't believe You.
  • »06.05.16 - 11:02
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Quote:

    Just to avoid any misunderstanding that may occur to other readers: OS4 support for the X1000's onboard audio appeared 1½ years after X1000 release.


    Considering that the X1000 was originally supposed to be released in 2010 with AmigaOS 4.2 three years sound just about right.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »06.05.16 - 12:38
    Profile Visit Website
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 56 from 2016/3/9
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    You have Amiga X1000 and by year and half You not install audio drivers?
    Even only to check if it works?
    I don't believe You.



    I wasn't the original owner.
  • »06.05.16 - 15:01
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> The X1000 has been out for 4 years [...]. 3 years to get audio running?
    >>> [...] come on, 3 years?

    >> Just to avoid any misunderstanding that may occur to other readers: OS4
    >> support for the X1000's onboard audio appeared 1½ years after X1000 release.

    > Considering that the X1000 was originally supposed to be released in 2010
    > with AmigaOS 4.2 three years sound just about right.

    He used the actual release date 4 years ago as reference. Had he used the originally announced release date 6 years ago as reference, the 3 years for the onboard audio driver would have been about right.
  • »06.05.16 - 20:54
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @Andreas_Wolf

    I know, I'm just messing with you :-)

    But it is interesting that 4.2 has gone from "almost finished" in 2010 to "not even close to finished" in 2014-2016. Pretty much the opposite of how things usually go. It's also interesting that there isn't a single demo out there, not even pre-alpha, showing off the new features. Only a couple of blog posts explaining how they should work. We are told that it will be great, but not shown it, even after some 6 years.

    Not to throw rocks at anyone, but it does start to smell an awful lot like vaporware.

    [ Edited by Yasu 07.05.2016 - 02:29 ]
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »06.05.16 - 23:28
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > 4.2 [...] "almost finished" in 2010

    I think this was 2011 ;-)

    http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=479
  • »07.05.16 - 11:54
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 805 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    @Andreas_Wolf

    I know, I'm just messing with you :-)

    But it is interesting that 4.2 has gone from "almost finished" in 2010 to "not even close to finished" in 2014-2016. Pretty much the opposite of how things usually go. It's also interesting that there isn't a single demo out there, not even pre-alpha, showing off the new features. Only a couple of blog posts explaining how they should work. We are told that it will be great, but not shown it, even after some 6 years.

    Not to throw rocks at anyone, but it does start to smell an awful lot like vaporware.


    Well, it is finished. Just not the way they thought it would be :) Like I keep saying, Hyperion Entertainment died as a company in December 2006. After that, they could no longer fund development and had to rely on the good will of developers, which eventually dried up. OS4 is dead, dead, dead. Joined the choir eternal. etc.

    And why? Because the OS4 crowd completely diverged from the Amiga in every conceivable way: either they didn't remember what made it a great machine, they never knew, or they were in intentional denial. Every popular computer system in history has been popular because of its userbase, and that was even more true of the 80s Amiga. Userbase attracts commercial investment. Userbase produces art, music, and innovation. It is progressive, iterative cycle. Get your usebase right, and you don't need to worry about the hardware.

    I see this mistake repeated again and again in the MorphOS platform too. We got a headstart because of Genesi's free boards and cheap boards, and Genesi's willingness to support software development. It was nothing to do with hardware spec, and everything to do with availability and something to actually use that hardware for. Yup, we got the more skilled devs in the long run, but guess why?
  • »07.05.16 - 15:35
    Profile
  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1335 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    I see this mistake repeated again and again in the MorphOS platform too. We got a headstart because of Genesi's free boards and cheap boards, and Genesi's willingness to support software development.

    Actually, quite a few developers were promised compensation but never received any and subsequently left the platform altogether because of that. So, if we are being totally honest, the effects of the corporate support that MorphOS received in the past have been mixed.

    In general, it is quite challenging to build a thriving developer community and many billion dollar companies struggle with it. As Hooligan reported on MorphZone a while back, the support given to demo sceners claiming to be interested in developing MorphOS demos is a prime example that even free hardware is not necessarily enough to get results.
  • »07.05.16 - 17:22
    Profile