Discussion of the Tabor / A1222 mainboard
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cool_amigaN
    Posts: 508 from 2011/11/30
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    itix wrote:
    The sky is not falling. We already have good range of supported hardware, old and new, slow and fast, cheap and expensive, portable and desktops. Tabor motherboard offer nothing new to us.


    We will see if the MorphOS Dev. Team decides if the A1222 is worth porting MorphOS to or not. I don't think it will be a system I am personally interested in buying, but there are many AmigaOS4.x users who have been begging for a cheaper system to purchase to run AmigaOS4.1FE on, and there might be a few MorphOS users who also want a new system that is lower priced than the X5000.

    I am not advocating a port to the A1222, but I am also not worried, nor will I complain if the MorphOS Dev. Team decides to support the A1222 by porting MorphOS to it. As has been stated several times already, the port of MorphOS to X64 or ARM hardware is going to take a long time.


    As much as I respect Trevor, share the passion of his endeavor (and perhaps secretively wish that I was on his position, leading the scene) I can't close my eyes and turn my head the other way when it comes to the new hardware he launches. Both price and spec wise these options are on the wrong side of the fence. My 2.7Ghz G5 is what, 9 yrs old already or something? And the overall performance can crash all of AEON (and A-Cube hardware). PPC is beyond dead, imho. Are there any cpu options that can surpass 10 yrs old hardware made by Apple and what would be their cost? That should be the base of a discussion for an upcoming hardware product but I think that we all know the answer. My personal opinion is that MorphOS team shouldn't have even done the 460ex and spend resources on the x5000, let alone invest on a hypothetical tabor port. After all, let's be honest, to how many new licenses did the A1 500 resulted to? None of the A1 500 owners that I know personally is interested in MorphOS and none bought it (hey, some even inquired me for a crack of the 50 euros registration :P). On moszone how many new threads did we witnessed soming from A1 500 owners? Release 3.10 and just head for the damn ISA switch. The sooner we break free, the better. The G5 sums up the fastest amiga possible and there are no alternatives worthwhile on the foreseeable future from the (OS4) hardware vendors. The OS is already in an extremely good shape (given its indie spirit) apps will continue coming while the NG port is ongoing, the current systems won't stop working, so I hope that we 'll finally abandon PPC the soonest possible and never look back.
    Amiga gaming Tribute: Watch, rate, comment :)
  • »18.10.15 - 22:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10542 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > A-Eon in partnership with ACube

    What's ACube's specific role in this partnership? Has Tabor been developed by them?
  • »18.10.15 - 23:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10542 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > there might be a few MorphOS users who also want a new system that is lower priced
    > than the X5000.

    Isn't that what the Sam460 port is for? Or has the Sam460 been discontinued by ACube in favour of Tabor?
  • »18.10.15 - 23:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10542 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Are there any cpu options that can surpass 10 yrs old hardware made by Apple
    > and what would be their cost?

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=9463&start=76

    > None of the A1 500 owners that I know personally is interested in MorphOS [...]
    > (hey, some even inquired me for a crack of the 50 euros registration :P).

    They can't be that uninterested in MorphOS then ;-)

    > On moszone how many new threads did we witnessed soming from A1 500 owners?

    I witnessed 4:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11249&forum=11
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11256&forum=11
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11353&forum=3
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11379&forum=11

    (That's Sam460 boards and not necessarily AmigaOne 500 systems, but I don't know why that should matter.)
  • »19.10.15 - 00:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2608 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > there might be a few MorphOS users who also want a new system that is lower priced
    > than the X5000.

    Isn't that what the Sam460 port is for? Or has the Sam460 been discontinued by ACube in favour of Tabor?


    I don't have any confirmation from an official source, but I have heard that the SAM460 is being discontinued because of the introduction of the Tabor system. I don't know when the Tabor will be ready to purchase, and also don't know when (or if) the SAM460 is really going to be cancelled, now or in the near future.

    It would not make any sense to continue producing SAM systems, if the Tabor is both faster and cheaper than the SAM460, which is the assumption made by many who are supposed to know the people working on porting AmigaOS4.x to the Tabor.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »19.10.15 - 05:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10542 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I have heard that the SAM460 is being discontinued because of the introduction
    > of the Tabor system.

    That's sad to hear, especially as MorphOS support for the Sam460 has been introduced only 5 months ago. If the MorphOS team knew availability would last only few months at best after introduction of support, I guess they maybe wouldn't have started the port in the first place.

    > I [...] don't know when (or if) the SAM460 is really going to be cancelled,
    > now or in the near future.

    Considering that the ACube webshop hasn't had listed any Sam460 board or system for a while now, I'm afraid this has already happened. All in all, the Sam460cr availability was barely noteworthy.
  • »19.10.15 - 08:28
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    But it does seem a little odd to discontinue a board that is finally almost well supported for a board that's still just in development, and presumely lack most drivers. And Hyperion doesn't have a reputation to make those fast.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »19.10.15 - 08:57
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10542 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > it does seem a little odd to discontinue a board that is finally almost well supported

    Just guessing, but it may be a problem with availability of board components.

    > for a board that's still just in development

    Has this been stated? I've been under the impression that the board itself is ready to go, just OS4 tarries.

    > and presumely lack most drivers.

    ...in OS4. Linux has them all I suspect ;-)
  • »19.10.15 - 09:31
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 221 from 2015/6/30
    I cant get the network to work with my Sam460ex so there is currently no way of me purchasing a MorphOS license for it.
    I dont know if anyone else has the same problem but they could.


    Quote:

    Cool_amigaN wrote:
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    itix wrote:
    The sky is not falling. We already have good range of supported hardware, old and new, slow and fast, cheap and expensive, portable and desktops. Tabor motherboard offer nothing new to us.


    We will see if the MorphOS Dev. Team decides if the A1222 is worth porting MorphOS to or not. I don't think it will be a system I am personally interested in buying, but there are many AmigaOS4.x users who have been begging for a cheaper system to purchase to run AmigaOS4.1FE on, and there might be a few MorphOS users who also want a new system that is lower priced than the X5000.

    I am not advocating a port to the A1222, but I am also not worried, nor will I complain if the MorphOS Dev. Team decides to support the A1222 by porting MorphOS to it. As has been stated several times already, the port of MorphOS to X64 or ARM hardware is going to take a long time.


    As much as I respect Trevor, share the passion of his endeavor (and perhaps secretively wish that I was on his position, leading the scene) I can't close my eyes and turn my head the other way when it comes to the new hardware he launches. Both price and spec wise these options are on the wrong side of the fence. My 2.7Ghz G5 is what, 9 yrs old already or something? And the overall performance can crash all of AEON (and A-Cube hardware). PPC is beyond dead, imho. Are there any cpu options that can surpass 10 yrs old hardware made by Apple and what would be their cost? That should be the base of a discussion for an upcoming hardware product but I think that we all know the answer. My personal opinion is that MorphOS team shouldn't have even done the 460ex and spend resources on the x5000, let alone invest on a hypothetical tabor port. After all, let's be honest, to how many new licenses did the A1 500 resulted to? None of the A1 500 owners that I know personally is interested in MorphOS and none bought it (hey, some even inquired me for a crack of the 50 euros registration :P). On moszone how many new threads did we witnessed soming from A1 500 owners? Release 3.10 and just head for the damn ISA switch. The sooner we break free, the better. The G5 sums up the fastest amiga possible and there are no alternatives worthwhile on the foreseeable future from the (OS4) hardware vendors. The OS is already in an extremely good shape (given its indie spirit) apps will continue coming while the NG port is ongoing, the current systems won't stop working, so I hope that we 'll finally abandon PPC the soonest possible and never look back.
  • »19.10.15 - 11:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10542 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Comment from Hyperion .
    > http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=40622&forum=2&start=460&viewmode=flat&order=0#770947

    Another comment from Hyperion:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.os4welt.de/viewtopic.php?p=26101%23p26101
  • »19.10.15 - 12:36
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  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 382 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    After all it seems that there is at least one person related to OS4 who has understood the technical aspects of that kind of incompatible FPU.
    But still ... Why would you choose this CPU for your custom-tailored hardware and your preferred OS in the first place if you are aware of all that extra software work ?
    At least I don't have a reasonable answer to all that since this is way too much extra work for too little benefit in the end IMHO ....
  • »19.10.15 - 13:44
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 221 from 2015/6/30
    Trevor stated in his 2015 Amiwest presentation that the Feescale T series was not available when the design of the Tabor started.
    So what would have been another choice for a lower end motherboard ?


    Quote:

    pega-1 wrote:
    After all it seems that there is at least one person related to OS4 who has understood the technical aspects of that kind of incompatible FPU.
    But still ... Why would you choose this CPU for your custom-tailored hardware and your preferred OS in the first place if you are aware of all that extra software work ?
    At least I don't have a reasonable answer to all that since this is way too much extra work for too little benefit in the end IMHO ....

  • »19.10.15 - 14:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10542 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > what would have been another choice for a lower end motherboard ?

    See comment #59.
  • »19.10.15 - 14:21
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1893 from 2003/2/24
    @Spectre660

    Wait for something atleast semi-suitable to appear ?

    Making a no-fuss mobo out of the chips allready available and suitable ?
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »19.10.15 - 14:23
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 221 from 2015/6/30
    Ok.
    Do Varisys have AMCC designs experience ?.
    I was hoping that Acube would go this route a few years ago.
    But the plans have changed .


    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > what would have been another choice for a lower end motherboard ?

    See comment #59.




    [ Edited by Spectre660 19.10.2015 - 09:37 ]
  • »19.10.15 - 14:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 221 from 2015/6/30
    Might leave a dry spell of a couple of years though .

    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    @Spectre660

    Wait for something atleast semi-suitable to appear ?

    Making a no-fuss mobo out of the chips allready available and suitable ?


  • »19.10.15 - 14:34
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 221 from 2015/6/30
    By the way the Mplayer Prometheus-Trailer decode benchmarks single core results under Linux Debian 8.x are Tabor (SPE) 214s . Sam460ex 469s .

    [ Edited by Spectre660 19.10.2015 - 09:50 ]
  • »19.10.15 - 14:47
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10542 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Do Varisys have AMCC designs experience ?.

    If not them, then ACube has, who are a partner in this. And thanks for confirming that Tabor has been designed by Varisys. What's ACube's role in this again?

    > I was hoping that Acube would go this route a few years ago.

    I was speculating about this as well 3.5 years ago.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=723

    > But the plans have changed .

    So it actually was ACube's original plan to go PacketPro/APM86x9x/Mamba/PPC465 after PPC460EX/PPC440H6?
  • »19.10.15 - 14:57
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1339 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Considering that the ACube webshop hasn't had listed any Sam460 board or system for a while now, I'm afraid this has already happened. All in all, the Sam460cr availability was barely noteworthy.


    You aren't going to point to some obscure webshop in Siberia as proof the Sam460 is available new?
  • »19.10.15 - 15:02
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1339 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Another comment from Hyperion:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.os4welt.de/viewtopic.php?p=26101%23p26101



    We also know that it will not be particularly fast


    Well golly gee. :roll:
  • »19.10.15 - 15:07
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1339 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    So what would have been another choice for a lower end motherboard ?



    Sam460cr maybe? Something you already support and something a new software partner just introduced a OS for 5 months ago?
  • »19.10.15 - 15:10
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 221 from 2015/6/30
    By plans have changed I was referring to Acube's role.
    It would appear that designs will now be done by Varisys.



    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Do Varisys have AMCC designs experience ?.

    If not them, then ACube has, who are a partner in this. And thanks for confirming that Tabor has been designed by Varisys. What's ACube's role in this again?

    > I was hoping that Acube would go this route a few years ago.

    I was speculating about this as well 3.5 years ago.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=723

    > But the plans have changed .

    So it actually was ACube's original plan to go PacketPro/APM86x9x/Mamba/PPC465 after PPC460EX/PPC440H6?
  • »19.10.15 - 15:11
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1339 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    By the way the Mplayer Prometheus-Trailer decode benchmarks single core results under Linux Debian 8.x are Tabor (SPE) 214s . Sam460ex 469s .


    Why do you keep comparing Linux benchmarks? OS4 doesn't have SMP and probably never will. That doesn't even get into the FPU issues with OS4. Irrelevant.
  • »19.10.15 - 15:13
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10542 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> the ACube webshop hasn't had listed any Sam460 board or system for a while now [...].

    > You aren't going to point to some obscure webshop in Siberia as proof the Sam460
    > is available new?

    No, and neither to non-obscure webshops in Switzerland, Spain or Slovakia. Opposed to what was the topic back then, I'm not saying the Sam460 is not available new anywhere. We're talking about the production and putting on sale of one or more new batches here, and I was explicitly only referring to ACube's webshop.
  • »19.10.15 - 15:19
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    I have never heard of Cyborg before, but I like him already. He doesn't seem to sugercoat the problems they are facing and claiming everything is just fine and on schedule. Hyperions marketing department could learn a thing or two from him.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »19.10.15 - 15:45
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