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I still think we ought to build this ourselves.
1.4 GHz vs 1.2 GHZ, twice the number of cores, a real fpu, 64bit, and essentially no additional cost.

hey redrumbumbum,

i'm a os4 fanboy? lol, good one right. maybe you're just an arrogant user. thats quite more likely dont you think?

Of course they are doing profit, but not that kind of profit you would think of when talking about apple or microsoft. are you that narrow minded? A-EON is not profit oriented but rather in pushing the amiga community and delivering new hardware and software to re-energize the amiga community. Jens main business isnt the classic amigas neither. They don't have to do all that amiga stuff to make their money and live on.

From A-EON website:

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And of course trevor wants to make some kind of profit because making loss would mean the end of investment and development. But what you assume and connote is that they wanna make the big money and take the last penny of all amiga enthusiasts. Have you ever met and talked to any of those people you accuse of such things? Who the hell would want to get into amiga business to earn money???? You'll never get the rightfully earned benefit of your hard work in our community. NEVER! All the time and work the MorphOS Devs invested and put into development is not covered in any way by 111 Euros per license. or are you that kind of disillusioned?

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Sorry, you really have lost me.
You do realize a standard network card would have taken care of that issue, don't you?
And using expansion card to replace onboard devices that are not supported yet is an OS4 tradition.

I DO apologize for using the word 'stupid'.
That was uncalled for.
we have had perfectly civil interactions in the past.

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Some of the licenses are cheaper.
You mean they don't charge for OS4?

Hm, never knew that.

they do make promises way before they even know they can keep them.

That is an OS4 tradition.

This is the problem Jim. what you said about the Sam460ex is incorrect according to http://www.morphos-team.net/hardware .

Hardware Compatibility

On this page, you find a list of hardware that is directly supported by MorphOS 3.x.

Ethernet
On-board 10/100/1000MBit Ethernet on Sam460cr/ex (PPC460)

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In concern for Andre Seigel's (and other more considerate individuals) peace of mind, I am dropping out of this until Friday.

The OS4 promoters have my permission to continue to abuse me in my absence.

In the meanwhile, Tabor will not look any better to those with some technical knowledge.

Jim

> my concern is not only about the arguments

Jim's and my criticizing of the Tabor board is purely about technical arguments.

> spirit [...] and positivity [...]. just look through mz and tell me where all that
> stuff has been gone in our community?

I'm the wrong person to ask as these have never been my cup of tea anyway ;-)

> sometimes i have the feeling that theres nothing more important than bashing everything
> os4 related.

Jim's and my "bashing" of the Tabor board has nothing to do with OS4.

> we can be lucky that our devs are pretty competent and fast in developing and
> improving morphos.

I think you have it backwards. I opted for MorphOS in the first place *because* its developers are competent and fast :-)

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its a matter of point of view. i just hink that just developing and putting any hardware into the market is a big achievement in the amiga community.

you can't prove me wrong, because i have a totally different perception of that hobby. and as long as people like you keep BSing about everything the "others" put out, i'll repeat myself over and over.

dont get at me with that "i wanna buy an X5000 and think its nice bla bla" BS. You just proved many times by the way you talk about A-EON, OS4, etc. how you really feel about them. That elitist attitude is just disgusting.

i do not own the amiga community, but i clearly see the difference between the morphos and os4 community. How supportive they are and how much 3rd party projects they realize. our devs are the only ones doing an amazing job. the users just sit around and keep bashing os4 for their worse operating system and actually doing nothing. i didnt see ONE morphos system (maybe just one) in Neuss besides the ones brought by the MorphOS Team members. There were dozens of OS4 machines and companies presenting their new OS4 gadgets, games and hardware. So you still wanna tell me its all just about profits? really? i call that ignorant... maybe you need to attend one of those events to experience the community and spirit.

and besides all that, i never said dont critize anybody doing things for the amiga. But what you do is not criticizing in a constructive way, you just keep on bashing and insulting (yeah just like me, but i'm fine with that as long as some of you keep that kind of arrogance alive). And regarding your so called arguments: they are no arguments. talking about price/power arguments is ridiculous as a morphos user.

we all do user overpriced and underpowered hardware and software. but i'm repeating myself...

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erm, where did i say or assume that they dont charge for OS4? of course they do, and they probably charged twice but thats another story and i dont wanna get into that here.

You said they are doing it for the profit and my point was the opposite of that statement. thats what i wanted to make clear by that example. its just not possible to make a living with amiga. no matter if its morphos or os4 or classic.

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Yup, textbook fanboy. You met someone in person and now you don't use logic or reason, only a religious zeal to shout down people with personal insults trying to make them conform to your group-think.

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That has a lot to do with nothing, except your attempted backtracking. First you claim they run charities, now just that they aren't Microsoft. Good heavens, are you drinking?

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What the holy hell are you talking about? What have I accused anyone of here? Being a for-profit company? That's called an observation, not an accusation dude. I'm a free market capitalist, not a communist.

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I'm not delusional at all, unlike you fanboys. I was involved with Amiga/Commodore related business for about 2 decades. I was probably the biggest Individual Computers reseller for a couple years at my most active point. There is money to be made even to this day.

A decade ago the fanboys like you were attacking anyone who pointed out the flaws in the original AmigaOne boards, while claiming no one was making a profit on them. It was no secret what the evaluation boards could be bought direct, so it was no secret what the markup for slapping a boing sticker on those boards was. Fanboys rabidly defended Redhouse right up to the day he posted his "fuck you, goodbye" message. Some years later Eyetch's corporate filings were posted to Moobunny which showed some pretty nice profit. Time changes but fanboys don't.

BTW, you completely sidestepped the #1 question. You are indeed morphing into the next Hondo. You are a rabid fanboy who doesn't even eat his own dogfood. The only OS4 board available right now is the Sam460cr. Are you going to go online and purchase an AmigaOne 500 tonight?

@Cego

I really think you should read first what people actually are saying instead of responding to knee jerk assumptions.

As for Neuss: I was there. And you are pretty much right. The only MorphOS machine I saw there besides the MorphOS Team was my Mac Mini. There where plenty of AmigaOS 4 stuff. Games, cases, gadgets and merchendise. But the only X5000 you where allowed to play with was at the MorphOS table since A-Eon for whatever reason only runned some demos. From what I've heard it was because AmigaOS 4 isn't working properly on that board. Unlike MorphOS. Even the Friedens approaced MorphOS Team and was amazed that MorphOS Team has gotten as far as getting the whole OS working. MorphOS Team was also showing off a new version of Pagestream, and MorphOS 3.8 for Classic Amiga. Besides the usual stuff that is.

As for AmigaOS 4, the new NG things I saw was the Tabor card (no AmigaOS 4 working), X5000 (no AmigaOS 4 working), the game Gorky 17 and a demo of Wings Remastered (coming to all NG systems). So I think your perception of how AOS 4 oriented it was is correct, but for your assertion that AmigaOS 4 overtriumfed MorphOS doesn't hold. MorphOS could show off a fully working version of MorphOS 3.10 beta on X5000 and a new version of Pagestream. AmigaOS 4 camp could show of Gorky 17. To quote a certain dog meme: much wow!

As for profit, I have no idea what you read but no one here has said anything that A-Eon wants to make big bucks out of this, just that they want to run with a profit. That could be 1$ and still counts as a profit. The part that we compared A-Eon to Microsoft is all in your head.

> If you don't like the specs of the Tabor then why do you feel the need to throw tantrums. ?

Where are these tantrums regarding Tabor in this thread?

> Just move on to focus something that appeals to you .

Yes, like MorphOS on the X5000 for some :-)

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Well that show like Amiwest is pretty open as primarily an A-Eonkit/OS4 promotional event. People sometimes get angry when this is pointed out, but the fact is A-Eonkit is always a sponsor at these events. Being a sponsor means most of the stuff displayed or discussed will be the primarily to benefit the sponsor. The events like the Amiga 30 were also billed as "Amiga", as in Commodore Amiga event. Many of the visitors probably know little to nothing about NG solutions.

I will give credit where credit is due though. There does seem to be more of an effort to be accepting of other solutions be demoed. That may be the Trevor effect, or just smart marketing by Matt.

MorphOS does need it's own event one day. Unfortunately it is harder for something without "the name" to host and sponsor an "Amiga" event to bring the larger group of people(potential customers) in. That's another reason to embrace the ISA change and dropping direct legacy compatibility.

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I have serious reservations about the X5000. That said, if it does end up benching better than my G5 I could stretch the imagination about maybe getting one. It is terribly expensive, but if it improves on the old PowerMacs it could be interesting.

>>> our MorphOS team [...] don't care. They develop for themselves.

>> That's certainly debatable.

> Yes they do it for themselves. I heard that a lot of times personally from team members [...].
> [...] they don't care about the community. it is not their goal to satisfy our needs and wishes

They are implementing features proposed by users from time to time. So it can't be purely for themselves.

@redrumloa

Well, I had fun there and so did other people it seemed. It really didn't feel like there was a camp war going on at all there, except for some slight taunts about the Tabors FPU problem. It felt rather like open and fair competition if anything, but mostly it felt just like a huge gathering of likeminded spirits. No one outshined any other. I think people should know that.

> underpowered, buggy and unsecure system like MorphOS

Now you're the one being too harsh ;-)

As a happy user of six mac with unregistered Morphos from which two kaputt from being too old,
I have to say Morphos has not any feature that would be good enough to consider the resignation from usign Amiga OS 4.
Some Morphos users have to accept that.

> WE had the first PPC boards

Actually, the Pegasos I ATX prototype is based on the Teron CX, which was later rebadged as AmigaOne SE. So theirs is older :-) But yes, MorphOS ran on the Pegasos I years before OS4 ran on any AmigaOne.

> Amiga Inc eventually tried to follow our lead by selling relabeled evaluation boards.

This was Eyetech, not Amiga Inc.

> install a supported network card, until a native driver was created [...] is EXACTLY what
> X1000 owners had to do originally

The OS4 driver for Nemo's onboard Ethernet has not been released yet.

Let me quote my very good description of the problem.

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@ppcamiga1

I have no problem with that

> The times MorphOS users has complained has been when code was stolen.

...or documentation :-)

hey bumbum,

i'm an OS4 fanboy? i dont even have an OS4 capable machine.

You too understand the difference between making an enthusiasts/hobby oriented business and profit oriented business. A-EON is not interested in any kind of competition or maximising their profits, so they're not comparable in any way to Apple or Microsoft business. On the other side they are also no charity, but they have to make money to keep investing and developing. I honour that. Others start insulting their hard work and i'm not ok with that. A-EON does it to deliver new stuff for the amiga market and to keep the community alive with new stuff. why? because they are enthusiasts themselves. Just like Mr. Does from Vesalia or Jens or anybody else. So taking that into perspective i can hardly judge and talk so harsh and disrespectful about their mistakes. As i said, there is no alternative when it comes to new hardware because there is no other producer interested in developing new amiga ng hardware. take it or leave it. you don't like it, then don't buy it, but please stop being disrespectful towards people who dont share your point of view.

I'm not into Eyetech, so i can't talk about that topic. But that was 15 years ago or so and the whole market was totally different to where we stand now.

oh and btw, i'm not attacking some indivisuals here because of the fact that they point out mistakes, no! i'm attacking them because of their arrogant and narcisstic attitude. Theres just one thing you dont get. We're all sitting in the same boat. When A-EONs gone, theres no new hardware, when os4's gone there's no community, no developers and therefore less software. When Jens Schoenfeld's gone we'll have no further way to keep our classic machines in such a qualitative uptodate shape. That said, when thisdestructive way of communicating would affect the whole community there would be nothing left anymore.

Its not about praising everything and bowing down to those people. Its about respect and honouring their hard work. They do things and take steps to bring the system further.

Oh and regarding os4, i'm not a os4 user and right now all that stuff is too expensive for me as i spend a lot of money for my classic machine.

and regarding "shout down people with personal insults". i didnt start that very thread with an insult. i dont have any respect for people like Jim. People like him receive what they deliver. Learn to live with it.

i'm still wondering why people are argumenting with "too expensive" and "too slow"... even morphos is too expensive and too slow but none of you are criticizing that. OS4 is just as expensive as MorphOS and if they don't like the idea of running their system on +10 year old hardware i'm totally ok with that. where's the problem? and what the hell gives anybody the right to be so disrespectful to those people?

Get yourself a reality check. We all support a pretty under-developed and stuck system and actually pay too much money for what we get. But as an enthusiast i cant afford to look at things just from the consumer point of view. Everybodys sacrifising something to this platform. So the least i would do is to insult anybodys work.
And if you're consequent in your attitude and argumentation please start criticizing the MorphOS Team and tell us how overpriced and underpowered all their stuff is for the money they want. I know, its more comfortable to shoot at the other side and feel better, but for me thats just trolling and shitstorming.

What on earth has happened to this place?

It's always been a place where the discussions were mostly of a technical nature which made it a breath of fresh air compared to Amiga forums.

Please shut up and go do something else to relieve your boredom ladies.

Can we get back to discussing the technical problems with this new motherboard now?

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You don't have an OS4 capable machine, and yet you are here in insult fest meltdown over the fact people are talking about the shortcomings of a commercial product. You aren't trying to calmly debate the pro side of the technical argument, only insult and shout down people who aren't 100% pro this board and pro anything and everything A-Eonkit kit does no matter what.

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No, you are attacking people. You and ppcamiga1 are the only ones insulting and attacking people.

It is really astounding that you still don't see the bald faced hypocrisy of you shouting everyone down about how wonderful A-Eonkit is and everyone should buy their products, and yet you won't do it yourself.

MorphOS is moving further and further away from any association from the "Amiga" or the "Amiga Kommunity" each day. One day in the not so near future there will be no connection whatsoever. People like you and ppcamiga1 just need to deal with it and get over yourself. That day can't come soon enough. There is too much cult like mentality on that side of the fence.

[ Edited by redrumloa 03.11.2015 - 18:16 ]