Pirate MUI4 updated, how incompatible is this branch now?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12086 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > There's an issue of not crediting all the authors properly though, but this
    > is something he should have addressed when handing over the sources.

    ...or rather *before* handing over the sources and then *not* handing over the parts he's not the author of? And does this statement mean that you favour Maus/Böckelmann's version of the story over Henes' now? :-)
  • »15.09.16 - 15:13
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 3004 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    I can't favor a story I don't know, nor do I know how exactly did any handover happened nor what were the agreements between Stuntz and Hyperion (I guess).
  • »15.09.16 - 15:47
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12086 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I can't favor a story I don't know

    I think we know the main plots of the two stories (they're in this very thread), and your comment #286 read to me like you'd deem one of them more likely than the other. Must have been a severe misunderstanding on my part.

    > the agreements between Stuntz and Hyperion (I guess)

    You mean the license isn't with Maus/Böckelmann but Hyperion? How come?
  • »15.09.16 - 18:49
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 3004 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    You mean the license isn't with Maus/Böckelmann but Hyperion? How come?


    Like I said, I'd be surprised if they had a license. Hyperion: sure, they did have one to bundle MUI. Whether that one is still valid, etc, etc - no clue.
  • »15.09.16 - 19:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12086 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Hyperion [...] did have one to bundle MUI. Whether that one is still valid [...] - no clue.

    Hyperion's license has been for MUI3.9, AFAIK, and there's no reason to assume it's not valid anymore. But I'd be surprised if that's not a separate thing from the 2009 MUI4 license.
  • »15.09.16 - 20:27
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    IF any license of MUI4 is valid.

    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Hyperion [...] did have one to bundle MUI. Whether that one is still valid [...] - no clue.

    Hyperion's license has been for MUI3.9, AFAIK, and there's no reason to assume it's not valid anymore. But I'd be surprised if that's not a separate thing from the 2009 MUI4 license.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »16.09.16 - 10:25
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  • o1i
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 45 from 2003/2/25
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    So we end now with a number of different incompatible implementations of MUI.



    That trend has actually started with Zune...


    Just because MorphOS refused to dump MUI and use Zune instead ;-).

    Without joking:

    Zune is not so "bad", as one compiled program usually can't run with Zune and MUI, as Zune and MUI (with the exception of AROS/m68k) are not binary/API compatible.

    No AROS/x86 exe will call MUI5/MorphOS. No MorphOS/PPC exe will call Zune.

    But for MUI/AmigaOS, MUI/MorphOS and MUI/aos3.x this can happen. An aos3/m68 exe usually runs in all three environments. But if the features of the three "MUIs" get more and more incompatible, things won't get any better.

    =>
    Three MUIs on different architecture and different exe => programmer has to ensure compatibility
    Different m68k MUIs, same 68k exe => *User* has the problems first!!

    Well, if MorphOS drops m68 support in any future version, those problems are avoided then.
  • »16.09.16 - 12:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12086 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> I'd be surprised if that's not a separate thing from the 2009 MUI4 license.

    > IF any license of MUI4 is valid.

    I think it's a separate thing no matter the validity of the MUI4 license.
  • »16.09.16 - 18:14
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    polluks
    Posts: 782 from 2007/10/23
    From: Gelsenkirchen,...
    Quote:

    o1i schrieb:
    Well, if MorphOS drops m68 support in any future version, those problems are avoided then.

    Sorry, I don't understand this argument. If everyone drops every support all problems are gone?
    Pegasos II G4: MorphOS 3.9, Zalman M220W · iMac G5 12,1 17", MorphOS 3.18
    Power Mac G3: OSX 10.3 · PowerBook 5,8: OSX 10.5, MorphOS 3.18
  • »17.09.16 - 10:51
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  • o1i
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 45 from 2003/2/25
    Quote:

    polluks wrote:
    Quote:

    o1i schrieb:
    Well, if MorphOS drops m68 support in any future version, those problems are avoided then.

    Sorry, I don't understand this argument. If everyone drops every support all problems are gone?



    I have really no insight into MorphOS development at all, but I would assume, that with an cpu architecture change at least the old "m68k mui" will be sent into an emulator environment.

    I did not mean, that future versions won't be able to execute m68k programs:

    Currently both emulated 68k and native ppc call the same ppc library, which therefor also has a 68k jumptable (I assume, please correct me, if wrong). It would make sense, to drop this 68k interface and use a separate library living in an emulator/separate address-space. The new native library could be enhanced without damaging backwards compatibility. And so the new native library would avoid the problem.

    But this are just (more or less educated) guesses, as already said, I better should not write about things, I really have no idea about ;-).
  • »19.09.16 - 08:10
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  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Is MUI5 for OS4/OS3 denoted as "beta"?

    > the license [...] break of the OS4MUI team

    They simply moved name to MUI5 to cover tracks.
    At GitHub
    https://github.com/amiga-mui/muidev

    Is there a way to legally backport MUI4 to OS3, to avoid nonsense
    and no ability to register 3.8?


    [ Edited by vox 16.10.2022 - 04:55 ]
    ------------------------------------------
    iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
    YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
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  • »16.10.22 - 03:50
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12086 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > They simply moved name to MUI5 to cover tracks.

    No, after MorphOS had changed to MUI5 in 2015 (see comment #64), they moved name to MUI5 in 2016 to imply (alleged) functional and API compatibility.

    > Is there a way to legally backport MUI4 to OS3, to avoid nonsense

    Sure, just negotiate a source code license with the rights holders and go do it ;-)
    …or simply use existing m68k MUI4/MUI5 from muidev.de.
  • »16.10.22 - 16:14
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  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Sure, just negotiate a source code license with the rights holders and go do it ;-)
    …or simply use existing m68k MUI4/MUI5 from muidev.de.


    Thats TWO statements :)

    OK I will do 2) until someone brings licensed OS3 port, whereby I would
    pay same as for 3.8, just to have it more modern.

    My AmiKit XE and extended OS 3.2 need it! :)
    ------------------------------------------
    iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
    YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
    Telegram Amiga group: https://t.me/amigaranchorelaxo
  • »17.10.22 - 15:10
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