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> If a licensee [...] permanently copies IP that he is not allowed to copy

Which IP of Stuntzi does the licensee copy permanently and illegally?

> he is damaging the stability [...] of the product in an intolerable way.

MUI5 running here on MorphOS is stable as ever :-)

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> Does anyone knows who and where the "MUI4 is based on a 2006 beta" came from?

It came from the copyright notice:

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=9339&start=41

Btw, the same line of the copyright notice came already with properly licensed OS4 version of MUI3.9 no later than 2007:

http://www.amiga-news.de/de/forum/thread.php?id=25793#261216

> how did Jens and Thore come to be in possession of unauthorised sources for MUI,
> who supplied the sources?

See link in comment #129 (as written in comment #175) for the story as told by a MorphOS team member.

> the re-implementation of MUI4/5 is theft.

I'd rather say: Either it's an attempt of pure MUI4/5 reimplementation (based on properly licensed MUI3.9 source code) OR it's theft (based on "stolen" MUI4 beta source code) plus attempted reimplementation of non-beta MUI4 and MUI5.

30-odd = around 30. An autistic person would probably read it as meaning 30 people who are odd, although some might argue that meaning anyway.

A community of people focused on a computer platform that largely died over 20 years ago is bound to have a higher proportion of it's members somewhere on the spectrum. Certain people seem to compulsively bang out the same argument over and over again.

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That implied accusation is a bit like accusing someone of being a whiner and complainer when they complain for the 3000th time that someone else keeps farting in their face.

....the 3000th time it happens.

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I'm not talking about the situation being discussed in this thread. There are some valid concerns being expressed, such as the legality of MUI4/5 for OS4 and OS3, the apparent forking leading to possible compatibility problems down the line and the general messing about with version numbers of components.

Going beyond the scope of what they were supposed to do only seems to be counter productive.

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[ Edited by Yasu 02.09.2016 - 12:43 ]

> X1000 is obsolete with no CFE updates (even there are bugs to fix)

From A-Eon Core Linux team member Darren Stevens 2 days ago:

"Patching the firmware [...] is not an option for the following reasons: It was modified by a 3rd party, and we don't have a copy of the source. [...] At least one machine suffered damage during a firmware upgrade attempt, many people will be unwilling to reflash their system if an upgrade is produced."
https://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2016-August/148168.html

Or in othet words: The stupid knows no limit.

Addendum:

>> how did Jens and Thore come to be in possession of unauthorised sources for MUI,
>> who supplied the sources?

> See link in comment #129 (as written in comment #175) for the story as told by a
> MorphOS team member.

Another different version of the story (based on early MUI4.0, sources provided by Stuntzi):

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=974487

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As a former moderator at both Amiga.org, and AmigaWorld.net, I can verify that neither A-Eon, or AmigaKit owners, or officers, have directed moderators to censor any threads, and they stay out of moderation actions, unless one of the moderators for those sites asks for help, in the form of an opinion from Matthew Leaman, or Trevor Dickinson. Matthew and Trevor don't have the time, or the desire to get involved in how moderation is being performed on either site, unless one of their moderators is acting in a way that might harm the perception of either site, and therefore reflect badly on both A-Eon, and AmigaKit. (There is no such entity as "A-Eonkit")

Your accusations are more like the ravings of a paranoid conspiracy theorist, than rational comments by a user of the superior MorphOS, who don't need to worry about what users of a certain less performing OS say or do. I think you would do better to stick with the argument aimed at the people actually doing the wrong doing, the programmers who have created and maintain MUI4 for AmigaOS4.

Just my 2 cents

> the programmers who have created and maintain MUI4 for AmigaOS4

...and MUI5 since recently :-)

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Nobody will ever forget what AmigaWorld did, or that it allowed Hyperion and Eyetech to have secret forums and pressure mods to censor. Once a whore, always a whore.

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You've got to be kidding!

You honestly expect the new owners of Amiga.org & AmigaWorld.net to be responsible for, and to repeat the bad actions of previous owners of those sites? Come on, act like an adult, not a childish fool.

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yep

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Sorry, I didn't realize I was replying to a 12 year old. I'll remember to adjust my responses appropriately from now on.

@amigadave

It's a forum culture thing that people like eliyahu is nurturing and cultivating. The old amigaworld ways. The dark ages. People he finds annoying gets banned, topics he doesn't feel is beneficial for "the cause" gets closed down and swept under the carpet. The result is that the AmigaOne/Articia S is flawless, €3000 AmigaOnes makes sense and buying one "helps the Amiga Future", the Hyperion bankruptcy was just a misunderstanding and never really happened anyway, and Thore Böckelmann and Jens Maus are heroes. The forum owners "AeonKit" (two bankrolls but one Matt Leaman) obviously wants it this way, they approve it, else they wouldn't let him continue.

But this is Off Topic.

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Do as you wish, think as you want, but AmigaWorld is indelibly and permanently stained by its past misdeeds, and you by association have also been forever stained. It is a site with now zero credibility and will never have any more than zero credibility, and if in any situation you realise that nobody believes you or trusts you, then that's probably why. What wouldn't pass for a crackpot conspiracy theory anywhere else is automatically believable when applied to AmigaWorld, because it really was that corrupt and unpleasant. Have a nice day.

Well Dave,
I haven't dealt with AmigaKit before, but my first purchase was a complete fail.
I purchased a Cocolino PS2 to serial adapter and it simply does not work on my CD32.

Matt has sent me back a response that reads in part "The mouse port is a funny thing. It operates on a finite line. So the extra circuit stuff in cocolino is drawing more current and this will be causing issue.
You will end with the same issue with every mouse. Unless its a proper Amiga mouse (no adapter)."

So, basically "it doesn't work".

Not real reassuring considering who is going to be selling the X5000.

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I wasn't aware that AmigaKit was the developer of the Cocolino mouse adapter, or that it could also work connected to a serial port. I purchased one of them and have used it several times connected to my mouse port, to allow the use of a PS2 mouse, instead of an Amiga mouse, but have not used it in years, since most of my Classic Amiga systems have USB ports now, or I use original Amiga compatible 9-pin mice, of which I have many different models.

If on the other hand, you are blaming AmigaKit for a product that does not work, instead of the person who invented it, and you have not asked for a refund from either AmigaKit, or the original inventor, I can't agree with your reasoning. I have purchased dozens and dozens of products from AmigaKit over the years, and have always experienced great customer service and products.

If eliyahu is acting over zealous and protective as one of the few remaining moderators on either website (when I was there, he was only a moderator of Amiga.org, not AmigaWorld.net), then I would point out specific instances of his behavior to both Matthew and Trevor, and ask for it to be corrected. Of course, acceptable behavior on forum sites is highly subjective, and maybe his actions are justified, I don't know, as I don't post to, or even read those forums any longer. When I was active there, I did not appreciate the number of members who actively tried to disrupt forum threads, and cause conflicts, where none should have existed. I don't miss either site, or the tedious task of trying to moderate the members there.

It is distressing that this site is growing more like those other sites in recent years, but I suppose it was inevitable that more bad behavior begin here, as more people add MorphOS as one of their Amiga inspired alternative OSes, and they come here for information and discussion.

[ Edited by amigadave 06.09.2016 - 21:33 ]

> I wasn't aware that AmigaKit was the developer of the Cocolino mouse adapter

It's an Elbox product:

http://www.elbox.com/products/cocolino.html

> If [...] you are blaming AmigaKit for a product that does not work, instead
> of the person who invented it, and you have not asked for a refund from
> either AmigaKit, or the original inventor, I can't agree with your reasoning.

I think it's been settled now:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71378

> when I was there, he was only a moderator of Amiga.org, not AmigaWorld.net

That's still the case.