Pirate MUI4 updated, how incompatible is this branch now?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12088 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> MUI keyfile cannot be purchased anymore (which would be legal way to support
    >>> real MUI authors)

    >> Of course you can pay for a MUI keyfile and support Stuntzi this way:
    >> http://www.sasg.com/cgi-sasg/order_info?app=mui

    > website is dead as dudo for years

    No, the link I gave works well, and so does the PayPal page linked from there.

    > Stuntzi hasnt made any known statements even during MorphOS era of
    > MUI4 development

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3234&forum=14
    http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2005-01-00122-EN.html (via proxy)
    http://www.amiga-news.de/files/18_01_05_when_morphos_finally_died.html (via proxy)

    And MUI4 alpha and beta releases were released on sasg.com and stuntz.com until 2009:

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=9339&start=47

    > and not in this "AmigaOS 4 development era".

    http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2014-01-00061-EN.html (via proxy)

    > there is a growing number of shared components [...] between MorphOS and AmigaOS 4

    This is not my impression.

    > Hyperion has left the Timberwolf path

    Timberwolf was never a Hyperion project.

    > they used to claim there will be FF16 port, if I do recall.

    FF19, and it wasn't a promise.

    > bounty (they collected) was to port FF4 but to all 3 camps, if I do recall.

    No, your recollection is flawed. The Timberwolf bounty was OS4-only, of course.

    > we (owners of AOS4) wait since 2012 for them to complete last 25% of LibreOffice.
    > http://a-eon.com/?news=30-12-2012

    As your link proves, also this is no Hyperion project.

    > AmigaOS 3.5/3.9 [...] came with it as new standard OS solution to replace aged ReAction.

    Again, your recollection is flawed in multiple ways. There has been no MUI in AmigaOS 3.5 or 3.9. They contain ReAction (successor to ClassAct) as new standard GUI solution.

    > only MorphOS reached that goal (of further developing MUI as standard GUI toolkit)

    So far, MorphOS has been the only contender to that goal.

    >> What about Peg1, Efika 5200B or Sam460? :-)

    > They are as tiny and forgotten minority

    How are they forgotten? MorphOS 3.9 still supports these machines. Sam460 support was even added as recently as MorphOS 3.8.

    > as those who use AmigaOS 4 on PPC expanded classic, old AmigaOne g3/g4/mini
    > boards :-)

    Even years before PPC emulation was added to WinUAE, OS4 for Classic was a big seller according to Hyperion. OS4.1FE still supports officially Classic, AmigaOne SE (G3), AmigaOne XE (G3/G4) and Micro-A1 (G3).

    > X1000 is obsolete with no CFE updates

    It's supported by current OS4 release, so I don't see how it's obsolete just because of lack of firmware updates.

    > it is currently avail according to AmigaKit and Amedia (as Nemo board)

    No, it's not. Nemo/X1000 has been sold out in September 2015.

    > waiting for RadeonHD drivers for MorphOS, that wont be money milking

    ...and that support at least 2D acceleration :-)
  • »31.08.16 - 20:55
    Profile
  • Moderator
    hooligan
    Posts: 1948 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Thread closed!

    Even some OS4 users were calling foul, can't have that! Shut up and drink the Koolaid, fool! This is a corporate site not a public discussion forum!



    Amiga.org moderator:
    "if you feel the need to complain about MUI for AOS, please head over to morph.zone and do it there."


    Silly me.. I thought discussion of MUI for AMIGAOS belongs to AMIGA.org .. not here.


    But they are of course welcome.
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »31.08.16 - 21:32
    Profile Visit Website
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    A-eonkit have officially sided with IP theft and are now actively moderating anyone who dares pointing out IP theft is occurring.

    eliyahu's weak argument is simply a "conflict between the MUI for AOS developers and certain MOS enthusiasts". Gee, suddenly the MOS Team themselves are nothing more than "enthusiasts". I was actually considering ordering a SCSI2SD from A-eonkit, but I'll just get one directly from China now.

    I wish Stuntz would get off his mountain bike long enough to sue all these dirty players involved.


    Do you think that eliyahu was instructed by someone from A-EON/Amigakit lock the thread?
  • »01.09.16 - 06:51
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    eliyahu's weak argument is simply a "conflict between the MUI for AOS developers and certain MOS enthusiasts". Gee, suddenly the MOS Team themselves are nothing more than "enthusiasts". I was actually considering ordering a SCSI2SD from A-eonkit, but I'll just get one directly from China now.


    Scumbag OS4 at it again, riding on the coattails of MorphOS.

    71446331.jpg
  • »01.09.16 - 14:40
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Do you think that eliyahu was instructed by someone from A-EON/Amigakit lock the thread?


    No, eliyahu has long-demonstrated the capability of being a fully autonomous wanker without specific orders from the top wankers.

    [ Edited by KennyR 01.09.2016 - 16:47 ]
  • »01.09.16 - 14:45
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Wow. Having a bad day or something.
  • »01.09.16 - 15:06
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Wow. Having a bad day or something.


    "Enthusiasts having a bad day" = "people angry that their OS IP is being stolen"
  • »01.09.16 - 16:39
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Calm down Rambo. Where do A-EON/Amigakit come into this anyway?
  • »01.09.16 - 16:48
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Calm down Rambo. Where do A-EON/Amigakit come into this anyway?


    IP theft isn't OK just because it helps your preferred niche OS. How can you really ask this above question with a straight face? You may be a lot of things Rob, but you are not dumb.

    A-Eonkit sell OS4 pre-installed on computers.
    A-Eonkit sell OS4 stand alone.
    AmiUpdate is the official update software.
    AmiUpdate pushed out Pirate MU4
    A-Eonkit own Amistore. I don't know if Amistore directly offers MUI4 for download, but they sell products that require Pirate MUI4.
    A-Eonkit owns Amiga.org, which promotes the pirate software with news articles.
    A-Eonkit allows moderators to obfuscate the truth and censor people speaking the truth,
    A-Eonkit has a financial interest in allowing stolen IP on their product,

    [ Edited by redrumloa 01.09.2016 - 14:30 ]
  • »01.09.16 - 17:24
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    We aren't talking about some abandonware that hasn't been touched in 25+ years. We are talking about a core component of a commercial product that has very heavy active development. The MorphOS Team pour countless hours of hard work into their product for very little compensation. For someone to just walk along, take what they want without asking, then unzip their pants and piss on those they just stole from is angering.
  • »01.09.16 - 17:29
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 570 from 2007/7/29
    The only logical and mandatory consequence must be for stuntzi to revoke the license from Maus/Böckelmann and declare all their outputs of MUI4/5/whatever as illegal. If a licensee repeatedly breaks the license of an existing and continuously developed product, if he permanently copies IP that he is not allowed to copy, if he intentionally changes copyright information, if he permanently introduces incompatibilities AND still defends all that after being exhorted for many times, then he is damaging the stability and the reputation of the product in an intolerable way. It shows that he is continuously disdaining the rules without the will to change. Maus/Böckelmann got many chances over the last years to rethink and fix their behavior on and on again. They fucked up every single one. No single reason for any further chance. It’s time for consequences.
  • »01.09.16 - 19:05
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Does anyone knows who and where the "MUI4 is based on a 2006 beta" came from? Or have I dreamt it?
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »01.09.16 - 19:08
    Profile Visit Website
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Calm down Rambo. Where do A-EON/Amigakit come into this anyway?


    IP theft isn't OK just because it helps your preferred niche OS. How can you really ask this above question with a straight face? You may be a lot of things Rob, but you are not dumb.

    A-Eonkit sell OS4 pre-installed on computers.
    A-Eonkit sell OS4 stand alone.
    AmiUpdate is the official update software.
    AmiUpdate pushed out Pirate MU4
    A-Eonkit own Amistore. I don't know if Amistore directly offers MUI4 for download, but they sell products that require Pirate MUI4.
    A-Eonkit owns Amiga.org, which promotes the pirate software with news articles.
    A-Eonkit allows moderators to obfuscate the truth and censor people speaking the truth,
    A-Eonkit has a financial interest in allowing stolen IP on their product,


    I didn't say anything about the legal situation surrounding MUI for 68k and PPC or whether I think it wrong or right.

    Pretty much all Amiga dealers sell OS4 and/or computers with it pre-installed so why single out AmigaKit? Surely the dispute would be between Hyperion and Stefan Stuntz. Dealers sell products in good faith that the products fully above board, and yes, I do realise that complaint have been aired in public but AFAIK Stuntzi hasn't formalised any complaint and there is no cease and desist or similar issued.

    AmiUpdate is not an AmigaKit/A-EON product.

    MUI 4 isn't available via Amistore. zTools may well require MUI4 but again, any dispute over MUI is Hyperion and Stuntzi's business and developers are essentially using it in good faith. If Stuntzi begins formal proceedings or issues a cease and desist that may well change thing but I'm not sure how or if it would affect software using the unofficial MUI4/5.

    The release is still news regardless of whether or not there is a dispute over I.P. Amigaworld.net and Amiga.org cover news on AROS and MorphOS, is that promotion or simply reporting? Was anything actually censored in that thread or was it just locked? cgutjahr's post certainly hasn't been altered.

    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=813201&postcount=13

    One question I do have is how did Jens and Thore come to be in possession of unauthorised sources for MUI, who supplied the sources?

    Whatever the case, this really needs to be resolved. Whether that be Stuntzi ordering them to pull the plug or coming to some kind of arrangement. All this moaning is not good for the whole community, I'm sure you'd rather be enjoying your time on the forums than being irked of certain shenanigans.
  • »01.09.16 - 19:31
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Calm down Rambo. Where do A-EON/Amigakit come into this anyway?


    Red went for your bait but I'm not going to entertain this tangent.

    I will restate for emphasis: the re-implementation of MUI4/5 is theft. eliyahu is complicit in theft by censorship.

    It would all be pretty galling if I didn't know that the entire OS4 userbase were 30-odd middle-aged autistics.
  • »01.09.16 - 19:35
    Profile
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2251 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:



    It would all be pretty galling if I didn't know that the entire OS4 userbase were 30-odd middle-aged autistics.


    Speak for yourself, everybody else is allready well past 40.
  • »01.09.16 - 19:42
    Profile
  • Moderator
    hooligan
    Posts: 1948 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:



    It would all be pretty galling if I didn't know that the entire OS4 userbase were 30-odd middle-aged autistics.


    Speak for yourself, everybody else is allready well past 40.




    I'll hit forty in a couple weeks.. let me enjoy my younghood!
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »01.09.16 - 20:21
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12088 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If a licensee [...] permanently copies IP that he is not allowed to copy

    Which IP of Stuntzi does the licensee copy permanently and illegally?

    > he is damaging the stability [...] of the product in an intolerable way.

    MUI5 running here on MorphOS is stable as ever :-)
  • »01.09.16 - 20:23
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:



    It would all be pretty galling if I didn't know that the entire OS4 userbase were 30-odd middle-aged autistics.


    Speak for yourself, everybody else is allready well past 40.




    I might be wrong but I understood Kenny's post to mean the entire userbase of OS4 consists of 30-odd people and no more. Hyperbole to drive home the point that there aren't many of them.

    As a father of an autistic child I say his observation of many of the OS4 forum posters is spot on.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »01.09.16 - 20:38
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12088 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > how did Jens and Thore come to be in possession of unauthorised sources for MUI,
    > who supplied the sources?

    See link in comment #129 (as written in comment #175) for the story as told by a MorphOS team member.
  • »01.09.16 - 21:08
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12088 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the re-implementation of MUI4/5 is theft.

    I'd rather say: Either it's an attempt of pure MUI4/5 reimplementation (based on properly licensed MUI3.9 source code) OR it's theft (based on "stolen" MUI4 beta source code) plus attempted reimplementation of non-beta MUI4 and MUI5.
  • »01.09.16 - 21:14
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    30-odd = around 30. An autistic person would probably read it as meaning 30 people who are odd, although some might argue that meaning anyway.

    A community of people focused on a computer platform that largely died over 20 years ago is bound to have a higher proportion of it's members somewhere on the spectrum. Certain people seem to compulsively bang out the same argument over and over again.
  • »01.09.16 - 21:38
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Certain people seem to compulsively bang out the same argument over and over again.


    That implied accusation is a bit like accusing someone of being a whiner and complainer when they complain for the 3000th time that someone else keeps farting in their face.

    ....the 3000th time it happens.
  • »01.09.16 - 23:11
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Certain people seem to compulsively bang out the same argument over and over again.


    That implied accusation is a bit like accusing someone of being a whiner and complainer when they complain for the 3000th time that someone else keeps farting in their face.

    ....the 3000th time it happens.


    I'm not talking about the situation being discussed in this thread. There are some valid concerns being expressed, such as the legality of MUI4/5 for OS4 and OS3, the apparent forking leading to possible compatibility problems down the line and the general messing about with version numbers of components.

    Going beyond the scope of what they were supposed to do only seems to be counter productive.
  • »01.09.16 - 23:27
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Quote:

    That implied accusation is a bit like accusing someone of being a whiner and complainer when they complain for the 3000th time that someone else keeps farting in their face.

    ....the 3000th time it happens.


    :-D

    [ Edited by Yasu 02.09.2016 - 12:43 ]
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »02.09.16 - 09:41
    Profile Visit Website