Pirate MUI4 updated, how incompatible is this branch now?
  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    How will cutting ties with PPC and dropping X5000 support prevent anybody from "pilfering" version numbers from MorphOS components?


    I understand the anger, I am sad MUI development hasnt taken the legal way. Especially cruel situation
    is that MUI keyfile cannot be purchased anymore (which would be legal way to support real MUI authors)
    but is yet required. It would be best if it was purchased and open sourced, or just purchased and developed
    (like AEON does nowadays) so we know it is legal continuation, and then made avail to all camps, including AROS.

    At the other hand, I dont get just how "leaving PPC" would be good. Since all MorphOS users
    use Peg2 or Apple PPC computers, it would be leaving those machines behind, leave alone slow introduction
    of x5000 as expensive option (that could be a good way to introduce MorphOS to AmigaOS 4 users, same way
    AmigaOS 4 for Pegasos2 had some role - at least as testbed OS vs OS performance).

    I wish MorphOS 4/NG to (at least some time) be both PPC and x86 (if possible) and then in the end evolve
    to x64 only when it becomes truly 64-bit, SMP,OpenGL etc. way e.g. BeOS did. My 2 cents of opinion.



    [ Edited by vox 30.08.2016 - 23:20 ]
    ------------------------------------------
    iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
    YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
    Telegram Amiga group: https://t.me/amigaranchorelaxo
  • »30.08.16 - 20:19
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12089 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > MUI keyfile cannot be purchased anymore (which would be legal way to support
    > real MUI authors)

    Of course you can pay for a MUI keyfile and support Stuntzi this way:

    http://www.sasg.com/cgi-sasg/order_info?app=mui

    Just don't expect a keyfile in return (anytime soon) ;-)

    > but is yet required.

    It's not, except if you want to permanently save changes to the MUI look. And even then there's a workaround.

    > all MorphOS users use Peg2 or Apple PPC computers

    What about Peg1, Efika 5200B or Sam460? :-)
  • »30.08.16 - 21:54
    Profile
  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    VO> MUI keyfile cannot be purchased anymore (which would be legal way to support
    VO> real MUI authors)

    Of course you can pay for a MUI keyfile and support Stuntzi this way:
    http://www.sasg.com/cgi-sasg/order_info?app=mui
    Just don't expect a keyfile in return (anytime soon) ;-)


    Thanks, but website is dead as dudo for years, and sadly Stuntzi hasnt made any known
    statements even during MorphOS era of MUI4 development and not in this "AmigaOS 4 development era".

    Only good thing is that there is a growing number of shared components and apps
    between MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 - and not thanks to some new wave of unity between two teams
    and communities - but just because Hyperion has left the Timberwolf path, even they
    used to claim there will be FF16 port, if I do recall. And bounty (they collected) was to port FF4
    but to all 3 camps, if I do recall.

    Now, we (owners of AOS4) wait since 2012 for them to complete last 25% of LibreOffice.
    http://a-eon.com/?news=30-12-2012
    (Lesson learned: of uknown version - 3,4 or 5?) :-)

    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    VO> but is yet required.
    It's not, except if you want to permanently save changes to the MUI look. And even then there's a workaround.


    Thanks for "Workaround". Well, I like to get things saved :-)
    Even I hated that we didnt get the keyfile even in AmigaOS 3.5/3.9 that came with it
    as new standard OS solution to replace aged ReAction.

    So far, so fully usable, only MorphOS reached that goal (of further developing MUI
    as standard GUI toolkit)

    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    VO> all MorphOS users use Peg2 or Apple PPC computers

    What about Peg1, Efika 5200B or Sam460? :-)


    They are as tiny and forgotten minority as those who use AmigaOS 4 on PPC expanded
    classic, old AmigaOne g3/g4/mini boards :-)

    It just didnt instantly came to my mind, even its true.

    Also, after Acube-AEON alliance I also notice that SAM460 (Lite) boards are nowhere
    to be found to be purchased. Strange. Is Acube left only with Miniming or will they be Taborized?

    Also X1000 is obsolete with no CFE updates (even there are bugs to fix) but yet it is currently
    avail according to AmigaKit and Amedia (as Nemo board) and Cyrus yet isnt.

    Strange things ...

    Now, waiting for RadeonHD drivers for MorphOS, that wont be money milking as AmigaOS drivers
    turned to be (pay for 2D driver, pay for 3D driver and get new gfx card just because)
    ------------------------------------------
    iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
    YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
    Telegram Amiga group: https://t.me/amigaranchorelaxo
  • »30.08.16 - 22:56
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    It seems that they have renamed their Mui to Mui5 now. I can't imagine why ...


    Because they are arseholes. Logic doesn't enter into it I'm afraid.


    Pirate MUI4 is now called Pirate MUI5? Wow.

    How's MorphOS-NG coming along again? Just cut all ties with PPC already. Drop X5000 support since the thing doesn't seem like it will ever be released anyhow. Cut off the opportunities for these leeches to pilfer the hard work of the MorphOS Team.


    Or just do what should have been done years ago and name it MorphOS User Interface.
  • »31.08.16 - 12:32
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    terminills
    Posts: 95 from 2012/3/12
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    It seems that they have renamed their Mui to Mui5 now. I can't imagine why ...


    Because they are arseholes. Logic doesn't enter into it I'm afraid.


    Pirate MUI4 is now called Pirate MUI5? Wow.

    How's MorphOS-NG coming along again? Just cut all ties with PPC already. Drop X5000 support since the thing doesn't seem like it will ever be released anyhow. Cut off the opportunities for these leeches to pilfer the hard work of the MorphOS Team.


    Or just do what should have been done years ago and name it MorphOS User Interface.


    Even more fun would be to call it reaction ;)
  • »31.08.16 - 15:59
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    A-eonkit have officially sided with IP theft and are now actively moderating anyone who dares pointing out IP theft is occurring.

    eliyahu's weak argument is simply a "conflict between the MUI for AOS developers and certain MOS enthusiasts". Gee, suddenly the MOS Team themselves are nothing more than "enthusiasts". I was actually considering ordering a SCSI2SD from A-eonkit, but I'll just get one directly from China now.

    I wish Stuntz would get off his mountain bike long enough to sue all these dirty players involved.
  • »31.08.16 - 17:04
    Profile
  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1370 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    terminills wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Or just do what should have been done years ago and name it MorphOS User Interface.


    Even more fun would be to call it reaction ;)


    That would be a class act move.

    <bows for applause>
  • »31.08.16 - 17:08
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    terminills
    Posts: 95 from 2012/3/12
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    Quote:

    terminills wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Or just do what should have been done years ago and name it MorphOS User Interface.


    Even more fun would be to call it reaction ;)


    That would be a class act move.

    <bows for applause>


    golf claps
  • »31.08.16 - 17:28
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    Thread closed!

    Even some OS4 users were calling foul, can't have that! Shut up and drink the Koolaid, fool! This is a corporate site not a public discussion forum!
  • »31.08.16 - 19:37
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    I wish MorphOS 4/NG to (at least some time) be both PPC and x86 (if possible) and then in the end evolve
    to x64 only when it becomes truly 64-bit, SMP,OpenGL etc. way e.g. BeOS did. My 2 cents of opinion.



    Better to just port QEMU to MorphOS x64 and emulate a Pegasos 2 for legacy PPC software.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5774&forum=9

    http://bigfoot.morphos-team.net/test/qemu.png
  • »31.08.16 - 19:43
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12089 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> MUI keyfile cannot be purchased anymore (which would be legal way to support
    >>> real MUI authors)

    >> Of course you can pay for a MUI keyfile and support Stuntzi this way:
    >> http://www.sasg.com/cgi-sasg/order_info?app=mui

    > website is dead as dudo for years

    No, the link I gave works well, and so does the PayPal page linked from there.

    > Stuntzi hasnt made any known statements even during MorphOS era of
    > MUI4 development

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3234&forum=14
    http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2005-01-00122-EN.html (via proxy)
    http://www.amiga-news.de/files/18_01_05_when_morphos_finally_died.html (via proxy)

    And MUI4 alpha and beta releases were released on sasg.com and stuntz.com until 2009:

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=9339&start=47

    > and not in this "AmigaOS 4 development era".

    http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2014-01-00061-EN.html (via proxy)

    > there is a growing number of shared components [...] between MorphOS and AmigaOS 4

    This is not my impression.

    > Hyperion has left the Timberwolf path

    Timberwolf was never a Hyperion project.

    > they used to claim there will be FF16 port, if I do recall.

    FF19, and it wasn't a promise.

    > bounty (they collected) was to port FF4 but to all 3 camps, if I do recall.

    No, your recollection is flawed. The Timberwolf bounty was OS4-only, of course.

    > we (owners of AOS4) wait since 2012 for them to complete last 25% of LibreOffice.
    > http://a-eon.com/?news=30-12-2012

    As your link proves, also this is no Hyperion project.

    > AmigaOS 3.5/3.9 [...] came with it as new standard OS solution to replace aged ReAction.

    Again, your recollection is flawed in multiple ways. There has been no MUI in AmigaOS 3.5 or 3.9. They contain ReAction (successor to ClassAct) as new standard GUI solution.

    > only MorphOS reached that goal (of further developing MUI as standard GUI toolkit)

    So far, MorphOS has been the only contender to that goal.

    >> What about Peg1, Efika 5200B or Sam460? :-)

    > They are as tiny and forgotten minority

    How are they forgotten? MorphOS 3.9 still supports these machines. Sam460 support was even added as recently as MorphOS 3.8.

    > as those who use AmigaOS 4 on PPC expanded classic, old AmigaOne g3/g4/mini
    > boards :-)

    Even years before PPC emulation was added to WinUAE, OS4 for Classic was a big seller according to Hyperion. OS4.1FE still supports officially Classic, AmigaOne SE (G3), AmigaOne XE (G3/G4) and Micro-A1 (G3).

    > X1000 is obsolete with no CFE updates

    It's supported by current OS4 release, so I don't see how it's obsolete just because of lack of firmware updates.

    > it is currently avail according to AmigaKit and Amedia (as Nemo board)

    No, it's not. Nemo/X1000 has been sold out in September 2015.

    > waiting for RadeonHD drivers for MorphOS, that wont be money milking

    ...and that support at least 2D acceleration :-)
  • »31.08.16 - 20:55
    Profile
  • Moderator
    hooligan
    Posts: 1948 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Thread closed!

    Even some OS4 users were calling foul, can't have that! Shut up and drink the Koolaid, fool! This is a corporate site not a public discussion forum!



    Amiga.org moderator:
    "if you feel the need to complain about MUI for AOS, please head over to morph.zone and do it there."


    Silly me.. I thought discussion of MUI for AMIGAOS belongs to AMIGA.org .. not here.


    But they are of course welcome.
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »31.08.16 - 21:32
    Profile Visit Website
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    A-eonkit have officially sided with IP theft and are now actively moderating anyone who dares pointing out IP theft is occurring.

    eliyahu's weak argument is simply a "conflict between the MUI for AOS developers and certain MOS enthusiasts". Gee, suddenly the MOS Team themselves are nothing more than "enthusiasts". I was actually considering ordering a SCSI2SD from A-eonkit, but I'll just get one directly from China now.

    I wish Stuntz would get off his mountain bike long enough to sue all these dirty players involved.


    Do you think that eliyahu was instructed by someone from A-EON/Amigakit lock the thread?
  • »01.09.16 - 06:51
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    eliyahu's weak argument is simply a "conflict between the MUI for AOS developers and certain MOS enthusiasts". Gee, suddenly the MOS Team themselves are nothing more than "enthusiasts". I was actually considering ordering a SCSI2SD from A-eonkit, but I'll just get one directly from China now.


    Scumbag OS4 at it again, riding on the coattails of MorphOS.

    71446331.jpg
  • »01.09.16 - 14:40
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Do you think that eliyahu was instructed by someone from A-EON/Amigakit lock the thread?


    No, eliyahu has long-demonstrated the capability of being a fully autonomous wanker without specific orders from the top wankers.

    [ Edited by KennyR 01.09.2016 - 16:47 ]
  • »01.09.16 - 14:45
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Wow. Having a bad day or something.
  • »01.09.16 - 15:06
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Wow. Having a bad day or something.


    "Enthusiasts having a bad day" = "people angry that their OS IP is being stolen"
  • »01.09.16 - 16:39
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Calm down Rambo. Where do A-EON/Amigakit come into this anyway?
  • »01.09.16 - 16:48
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Calm down Rambo. Where do A-EON/Amigakit come into this anyway?


    IP theft isn't OK just because it helps your preferred niche OS. How can you really ask this above question with a straight face? You may be a lot of things Rob, but you are not dumb.

    A-Eonkit sell OS4 pre-installed on computers.
    A-Eonkit sell OS4 stand alone.
    AmiUpdate is the official update software.
    AmiUpdate pushed out Pirate MU4
    A-Eonkit own Amistore. I don't know if Amistore directly offers MUI4 for download, but they sell products that require Pirate MUI4.
    A-Eonkit owns Amiga.org, which promotes the pirate software with news articles.
    A-Eonkit allows moderators to obfuscate the truth and censor people speaking the truth,
    A-Eonkit has a financial interest in allowing stolen IP on their product,

    [ Edited by redrumloa 01.09.2016 - 14:30 ]
  • »01.09.16 - 17:24
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    We aren't talking about some abandonware that hasn't been touched in 25+ years. We are talking about a core component of a commercial product that has very heavy active development. The MorphOS Team pour countless hours of hard work into their product for very little compensation. For someone to just walk along, take what they want without asking, then unzip their pants and piss on those they just stole from is angering.
  • »01.09.16 - 17:29
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 570 from 2007/7/29
    The only logical and mandatory consequence must be for stuntzi to revoke the license from Maus/Böckelmann and declare all their outputs of MUI4/5/whatever as illegal. If a licensee repeatedly breaks the license of an existing and continuously developed product, if he permanently copies IP that he is not allowed to copy, if he intentionally changes copyright information, if he permanently introduces incompatibilities AND still defends all that after being exhorted for many times, then he is damaging the stability and the reputation of the product in an intolerable way. It shows that he is continuously disdaining the rules without the will to change. Maus/Böckelmann got many chances over the last years to rethink and fix their behavior on and on again. They fucked up every single one. No single reason for any further chance. It’s time for consequences.
  • »01.09.16 - 19:05
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Does anyone knows who and where the "MUI4 is based on a 2006 beta" came from? Or have I dreamt it?
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »01.09.16 - 19:08
    Profile Visit Website
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Calm down Rambo. Where do A-EON/Amigakit come into this anyway?


    IP theft isn't OK just because it helps your preferred niche OS. How can you really ask this above question with a straight face? You may be a lot of things Rob, but you are not dumb.

    A-Eonkit sell OS4 pre-installed on computers.
    A-Eonkit sell OS4 stand alone.
    AmiUpdate is the official update software.
    AmiUpdate pushed out Pirate MU4
    A-Eonkit own Amistore. I don't know if Amistore directly offers MUI4 for download, but they sell products that require Pirate MUI4.
    A-Eonkit owns Amiga.org, which promotes the pirate software with news articles.
    A-Eonkit allows moderators to obfuscate the truth and censor people speaking the truth,
    A-Eonkit has a financial interest in allowing stolen IP on their product,


    I didn't say anything about the legal situation surrounding MUI for 68k and PPC or whether I think it wrong or right.

    Pretty much all Amiga dealers sell OS4 and/or computers with it pre-installed so why single out AmigaKit? Surely the dispute would be between Hyperion and Stefan Stuntz. Dealers sell products in good faith that the products fully above board, and yes, I do realise that complaint have been aired in public but AFAIK Stuntzi hasn't formalised any complaint and there is no cease and desist or similar issued.

    AmiUpdate is not an AmigaKit/A-EON product.

    MUI 4 isn't available via Amistore. zTools may well require MUI4 but again, any dispute over MUI is Hyperion and Stuntzi's business and developers are essentially using it in good faith. If Stuntzi begins formal proceedings or issues a cease and desist that may well change thing but I'm not sure how or if it would affect software using the unofficial MUI4/5.

    The release is still news regardless of whether or not there is a dispute over I.P. Amigaworld.net and Amiga.org cover news on AROS and MorphOS, is that promotion or simply reporting? Was anything actually censored in that thread or was it just locked? cgutjahr's post certainly hasn't been altered.

    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=813201&postcount=13

    One question I do have is how did Jens and Thore come to be in possession of unauthorised sources for MUI, who supplied the sources?

    Whatever the case, this really needs to be resolved. Whether that be Stuntzi ordering them to pull the plug or coming to some kind of arrangement. All this moaning is not good for the whole community, I'm sure you'd rather be enjoying your time on the forums than being irked of certain shenanigans.
  • »01.09.16 - 19:31
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Calm down Rambo. Where do A-EON/Amigakit come into this anyway?


    Red went for your bait but I'm not going to entertain this tangent.

    I will restate for emphasis: the re-implementation of MUI4/5 is theft. eliyahu is complicit in theft by censorship.

    It would all be pretty galling if I didn't know that the entire OS4 userbase were 30-odd middle-aged autistics.
  • »01.09.16 - 19:35
    Profile