Update:

> "MACOM intends to divest AppliedMicro’s well-positioned Compute business
> within 100 days from closing the transaction“

The 100 days plan didn‘t quite work out:

"MACOM [...] today announced that it has entered into an agreement to sell the Compute business it acquired in its AppliedMicro acquisition earlier this year to Project Denver Holdings LLC (NewCo), a new company backed by The Carlyle Group."
https://www.macom.com/about/news-and-events/press-release-archive/row-col1/news--event-archive/macom-announces-successful-dives

> Regarding the Embedded Processing business (which the PPC-based SoCs and
> the ARM-based HeliX SoCs belong to), page 11 of this presentation reads like
> MACOM is going to keep it ("Solid Cash Flow Business"), as opposed to the
> Compute business comprised of X-Gene ("Active Sale Process to Divest").
> As for how they could sell the X-Gene line but keep the HeliX line, this is somewhat
> of a mystery to me considering both lines are based on the same core IP (Potenza).
> John Croteau, MACOM president and CEO, on the other hand has to say:
> "the embedded PowerPC part of the portfolio may be part of the divestiture; it may
> not be. Depends which buyer, frankly. It’s a cash cow either way, to be honest."

The PPC-based SoCs remain at Macom, apparently:

"“Excluded Assets” shall mean all of Seller’s and its Affiliates’ right, title and interest in, to and under all assets not included as a Purchased Asset, including [...] the Seller’s “Connectivity” and “PowerPC” product lines [...]. [...] “Excluded Liabilities” shall mean all of the Liabilities of Seller and its Affiliates other than those set forth on Appendix C, including [...] any Liabilities of Seller or any Affiliates of Seller with respect to the winding down or termination of the PowerPC business"
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1493594/000119312517322214/d462503dex21.htm

Quote:

Curious choice of name, Project Denver was the code name of Nvidia's v8 core.

In other news Cray are going ARM (Camium X2).

Qualcomm are shipping their 48 core monster and it's getting some very good numbers.

> Cray are going ARM (Camium X2).

You mean Cavium (soon Marvell) ThunderX2? If yes, that‘s a nice use for the Vulcan core acquired from Broadcom.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/12/hp-asus-announce-first-windows-10-arm-pcs-20-hour-battery-life-gigabit-lte/

Quote:

The long battery life could be something that would draw me. I'm tired of being tethered to an outlet.
But native ARM applications are going to be a must, X86 apps that use any serious power will definitely slow this platform down.
Still, as it will run all Windows applications, it would be a nice bridge between ISA/devices.


[ Edited by Jim 06.12.2017 - 19:50 ]

Quote:

Windows itself will be native of course, as will all of its components and drivers, as well ass Microsofts own productivity SW, Internet SW and media SW. Speed in the video showing the emulated Photoshop session above in this thread is totally acceptable IMHO, and that test was conducted on an "old", existing ARM CPU. New CPU's come, and with Microsoft doing this move, opening the gates so to say, more CPU's aimed and taylored for real laptops (and maybe even desktops down the road?) will definitely follow.

> it will run all Windows applications

Only x86, i.e. 32-bit ones (while native AArch64 applications will be supported, of course).

Quote:

Ah, missed that, no 64bit compatibility. Not that big a deal, but interesting.
And the emulation speed, instead of acceptable, I'd rather term it adequate.

Quote:
The 32bit memory restrictions are a serious limitation when you deal with many, heavily layered, large resolution and / or high color depth files (or even videos which Photoshop can in fact edit).

Just merely painting with high resolution brushes can make many high-performance systems struggle to avoid noticeable lag.

Of course, basic photo editing should be just fine. But you do not need Photoshop for that either. (Photoshop Elements should suffice.) The implication is that people will be able to use "pro tools" on ARM via x86 emulation and, while technically true, I would keep expectations reasonably modest in that regard.

I was surprised to read the price points that were mentioned for some of these ARM systems this week. Asus and HP will charge around 800 EUR per device next year. For comparison, you can buy, say, a Dell XPS 13 with 14 to 15 hours of battery time for around the same price today and that will get you the full x64 experience without the forementioned limitations.

@ASiegel

I wasn’t aware of any 32-bit limitation until I learned about it from Andreas above. I wonder about the reason? I recall Ben Hermans mentioning legal issues Microsoft was having regarding the ISA emulation at AW.net, but I discarded that as usual BH BS. Could that be the reason? Legal protectionism surrounding the 64-bit ISA?

And regarding the price you mention, that was surprising as well. I understood it as the ARM move was MS’s way of reaching ultra-cheap segments...?

> I recall Ben Hermans mentioning legal issues Microsoft was having regarding
> the ISA emulation at AW.net, but I discarded that as usual BH BS.

He was probably referring to this:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/06/09/intels-not-very-happy-about-qualcomm-powered-windows-10-pcs/
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/09/intel_sends_arm_a_shot_across_bow/

Quote:

That refers to Intel's x86 ISA not AMD's AMD64 ISA so it wouldn't explain the lack of 64bit support.

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2017/11/08/qualcomm-centriq-2400-worlds-first-10nm-server-processor

>>> I recall Ben Hermans mentioning legal issues Microsoft was having regarding
>>> the ISA emulation at AW.net, but I discarded that as usual BH BS.

>> He was probably referring to this: [...]

> That refers to Intel's x86 ISA not AMD's AMD64 ISA so it wouldn't explain the
> lack of 64bit support.

Yes, I only replied to what I quoted :-) Or was Ben Hermans referring to x64 ISA specifically?

> https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2017/11/08/qualcomm-centriq-2400-worlds-first-10nm-server-processor

I guess that's what minator referred to two weeks ago in comment #931.

Quote:

No idea Andreas, I'd rather have my teeth drilled than read his drivel lol

>> was Ben Hermans referring to x64 ISA specifically?

> I'd rather have my teeth drilled than read his drivel

Found it ;-)

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=42062&forum=25#801829

I was spot on that he referred to Intel's roundabout (and apparently vain) threat to Microsoft from June.

>> Project Denver Holdings LLC (NewCo)

> Curious choice of name

Project Denver Holdings renamed to Ampere. X-Gene 3 renamed to eMAG.

https://amperecomputing.com/ampere-launches-to-accelerate-hyperscale-cloud-computing-innovations/
https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/776/x-gene-3-gets-a-second-chance-at-ampere-with-a-new-32-core-16nm-arm-processor/

Edit: A1 renamed to eMAG.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 19.09.2018 - 17:05 ]

Quote:

Well spotted! :)

I'm not a lawyer but it's been more than 20yrs since Motorola filed it's 68000 patents. Lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_of_patent

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-02/apple-is-said-to-plan-move-from-intel-to-own-mac-chips-from-2020

Quote:

Apple dropping Intel in favor of their own CPU. Very interesting!

Must be ARM based, since that's where Apple has been working the last couple of years.

This is what I predicted a long time ago. It makes sense, they will be in full control their entire eco-system.

It was years ago that Apple showed their first in-house design that surpassed Core i7 in many ways, design wise, and not many generations later they were able to deliver real Core i5 (laptop) performance. And this with a battery powered, passively cooled CPU running in the ~1GHz range. They weren't lying when they claimed "desktop class CPU" in their marketing materials.

Imagine if they would add a few more cores and construct the chip for optimal heat dissipation using powerful heatsinks with fans, and clock it in the range of 3-4GHz? I have no doubt that they will be able to create a powerful desktop/workstation class CPU able to compete with Intel. Their designs has for years been "over the top" for just phones and ipads, it has shown desktop ambitions all along...

As posted in that other thread, this is just an unsustained rumor.

Same one was floating around 2-3 years ago and it turned out that "Apple will use ARM in Macs" was just a controller chip for the touchbar and some security features.

Possible outcome:

Apple will continue on the effort on making IOS a full blown OS right to the point where the girl in the iPad-add asking "what is a computer" becomes reality.

At that point an iPadPro and beefed up AppleTV6 might compete with the MacBook and MacMini and if the big OSX-apps get a full version for iOS we might see the Mac fade away.

But not in in 2020.

Quote:
Do they have the factories to produce those chips?

Quote:

No, this is a different rumour, it names a specific project and says the executives have given the go-ahead.

Last time they switched there was a rumour in the Wall Street journal. It turned out Steve Jobs had a friend there...



Apple have already shown they can produce fast chips, they're not as fast as i7s but that's because you can't produce an i7 in 5 Watts. Going into a laptop or a desktop gives them the higher power they need to build an i7 class chip.

Beating Intel is not impossible, Qualcomm are already beating the Xeon E5s with lower power and lower price.