> I wonder what, if any, involvement IBM has had with the development of the
> Xbox 720 or PS4 cpus?

Regarding the PS4 CPU, none I guess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4#Console
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Accelerated_Processing_Unit#Jaguar_architecture_.28Kabini_and_Temash.29

The site you referenced also says "design of the console has not yet been revealed".
Although the use of an AMD APU has been mentioned frequently mentioned in the past.
It would be cost effective.


[ Edited by Jim 23.02.2013 - 23:30 ]

Quote:


After all the excitement of the PS3 the PS4 is one big "meh".


No doubt there will be plenty of people saying this is better because its far easier to program, apparently unaware that you still have to manage the cache (instead of the local store). All the complex stuff is otherwise the same, it's going to be glaringly similar to program.

If you want real power you'll just have to use the GPU, just don't complain about it being complicated to program...

Games forced the innovation in the hardware space for many years so it's a bit depressing that it has come to this. The Xbox and PS4 are just PCs in different boxes, and PCs have been boring for years.

Good thing I have other hobbies these days

Pretty good summary of the situation.
This next generation of consoles is remarkably underwhelming.

Virtual fraud by IBM making the Wii U look more powerful then it is.
Basically an off the shelf solution for the PS4.
And don't expect anything special in the Xbox720.

Addendum:

>> I found an Oracle blog article from a month ago stating:
>> "The first system I'd like to tell you about is a really cool 8 core Power Architecture
>> Hyper-Efficient Enterprise Server from a company in Dallas called Servergy."

> Seems that Servergy has another platform in the works called P-Cubed with a yet unnamed
> "Dual Core Power System on Chip (SOC)"

Look who's sponsoring http://www.powerlinuxusersgroup.com :

http://www.meetup.com/Servergy-Power-Linux-Users-Group/sponsors/ :-)

Interesting thread:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=http://safir.amigaos.se/main.php?d=showthread%26f=1%26thread=12693

It is talking about 4-core P2040 and 8-core P4080 (both have Amiga/MorphOS-friendly e500mc cores). Thing is either would clash with Servergy's "Dual Core" claim. We'll see.


Edit: Added link to Swedish forum thread.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 27.08.2014 - 09:46 ]

Jim,
Quote:

Well, Sony and m$ alway went for the max in a small case. Thats why XBOXes and PS3s tended to blow off until more recent models got better cooling and cpus with reduced heat output. Nintendo never played that league. They tried to be innovative with games and controllers, which worked out as they got people to play with the wii, whom never would play with a playstation.

The biggest problem I see in those XBOX/Playstation race is that they straigth to pc. Years ago people blamed the xbox is a ugly looking pc for the living room. Now we know the PS4 will go this way, too (We just don´t know how ugly it will be). In the result the ps4 will get even more ported PC games than the ps3, which we all know are just shooters, warcraft and diablo. Other games are hard to find in the pc market unless they contain flying birds (Moorhuhn, Angry Birds), cards or majong stones.

Speaking about the wii-u, it is for sure the most powerful console available, yet. Sure this will change. No one knows if the xbox or the PS4 will be more powerful, but we all know both are PC and PC´s can be expanded to be faster. Just not the PS4 and the XBox. So in the end a gamer pc will outrun any console again. I expect this to happen faster than years before.

Waiting for the fastest system makes you waiting forever.

Geit


[ Edited by geit 27.02.2013 - 15:38 ]

@Geit

One thing is for certain, with hardware that is derived from PCs, porting games from PC to console and vice versa should be fairly easy.

> No one knows if [...] the PS4 will be more powerful

I think we actually do know for a week already.

> we all know both are PC and PC´s can be expanded to be faster. Just not the
> PS4 and the XBox.

...which would make them non-PCs according to your own logic ;-)

Quote:

Actually Nintendo managed to do better, they managed to get people to buy Wii and NOT play with it. Marketing campaigns for Wii were the best I have seen for a long time, useless console with crappy games.. but hey, play crappy games on a useless console together with friends while you zip a drink and its fun!

I personally know a dozen people owning Wii (got or bought as a xmas present) and have barely used it as it's really not that entertaining.

Reminder:

> Hyperionmp says:
> "The way in which it will be implemented however is already clearly defined
> and was subject to peer review by other developers. Obstacles to an
> efficient implementation were removed (e.g. the use of Forbid) and replaced
> in many OS components over the years (e.g. DOS). The foundation for
> SMP support was put in place, a clear picture exists what needs to be done
> to accomplish it and how. I'm willing to take a bet that it won't take 2 years ;)"
> http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34171&forum=33&start=40#627520

Three quarters passed :-)

Update:

> "Additional production runs will be scheduled should demand continue to exceed the supply."
> http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=1252

"Despite high and volatile CPU prices, A-EON has commissioned another limited batch of systems to fulfill the demand on our pre-order list."
http://www.amigakit.com/x1000/

"As of March 2013, we are pleased to announce that a further batch will commence production in April, with delivery in Q3 2013 until end of year. We have a waiting list for the next batch. We now have sufficient customers to fulfill this current batch."
http://www.amigakit.com/x1000/?webpage=faq

"due to overwhelming customer demand, we have commissioned another manufacturing run of AmigaOne X1000 systems with our suppliers. We expect to receive new boards from Varisys within 8 to 10 weeks. Matthew Leaman of AmigaKit, our official distributor commented, "[...] We also have a large backlog of customers who have already registered their interest and they will be serviced first from the new manufacturing batch.""
http://www.a-eon.com/news/02-04-2013.html

I wonder if these will still be called "First Contact" systems. And it will be interesting to know whether Trevor will continue to pay the 475 USD extra costs of the 975 USD PA6T CPU.


Edit: Added quote from A-Eon press release

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 04.04.2013 - 13:42 ]

So they are just collecting preorders and then produce another batch. Just like what eyetech did.

Update:

>> Hyperionmp says:
>> "The way in which it will be implemented however is already clearly defined
>> and was subject to peer review by other developers. Obstacles to an
>> efficient implementation were removed (e.g. the use of Forbid) and replaced
>> in many OS components over the years (e.g. DOS). The foundation for
>> SMP support was put in place, a clear picture exists what needs to be done
>> to accomplish it and how. I'm willing to take a bet that it won't take 2 years ;)"
>> http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34171&forum=33&start=40#627520

> Three quarters passed :-)

"There is a clear concept defined for multiprocessing since quite some time which is now being implemented. In fact, on an X1000, it is already possible to boot two independent instances of AmigaOS each running on a different core."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=33223&forum=14&start=320#702744

Another production run of X1000 computers is surprising, given that A-Eon should be well along with their development of its successor, which will not use the PA6T CPU.

Almost as surprising as the fact that there are still enough more customers that wish to purchase such an expensive computer, given the slow pace and lack of concrete information being released by Hyperion regarding progress and time line for when AmigaOS4.2 will be released.

I have mixed thoughts and feelings regarding the additional production run of X1000 computers, as on the one hand, if no more X1000's are produced, my own X1000 remains more unique and rare. On the other hand, with more X1000's produced and sold, it is more likely that it will receive more attention and support by both A-Eon & Hyperion, and possibly some few third party developers, who might write software that can only run on the unique hardware found within the X1000. On the whole, I am happy that more X1000's will be produced, as the increase in numbers gives me more assurance that my X1000 will be supported longer and better.

Who knows, maybe if enough X1000's are produced and one or two of them make there way into the right hands, there could even be the possibility of a port of MorphOS3.x to the X1000, but I doubt it.

Then again, I never thought that any port of MorphOS3.x would ever be created, or released for any of the SAM motherboards, and I was proved wrong.

[ Edited by amigadave 31.03.2013 - 20:17 ]

That is not SMP.

> Another production run of X1000 computers is surprising

In October after AmiWest, Trevor said that additional production runs would be scheduled should demand continue to exceed the supply (which is obviously the case), right after he had stated on AmiWest that there wouldn't be another batch.

> given that A-Eon should be well along with their development of its successor

I'm not sure this is true, considering Trevor's statement from just 5 weeks ago:

"I prepare to leave the beautiful New Zealand Summer for a trip to the frozen lands of Northern Europe [...]. During my visit I am meeting with Varisys, the designers of the A1-X1000, to [...] review plans for future hardware development."
http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=2830

> if no more X1000's are produced, my own X1000 remains more unique and rare.

This should only be a point for people purchasing the X1000 as a store of value, and so they should better not use it but keep it safe in a bank vault under absence of air for worse times to come ;-) For an actual *user* this shouldn't be a concern, I think.

> with more X1000's produced and sold, it is more likely that it will receive more
> attention and support by both A-Eon & Hyperion, and possibly some few third
> party developers [...]. [...] the increase in numbers gives me more assurance
> that my X1000 will be supported longer and better.

Indeed. It's a pity that drivers for onboard audio and onboard Ethernet are still not completed. The less X1000 machines in existence, the lower the motivation to work on supporting those components I'd guess.

> who might write software that can only run on the unique hardware found within the X1000.

You mean the successor of the X1000 won't feature Xena/XCore and Xorro? To be honest, I don't think that would be a notable loss.

@Andreas,

I have not kept up on exactly what has been officially stated (or even unofficially stated) regarding the progress of A-Eon's next motherboard design, so I don't want to reveal anything that I have been told, or otherwise been made aware of, as that is not my place to reveal anything. But I think it is safe to say that A-Eon and Varisys have not been idle for the last 6+ months since I last talked to Trevor, which is why I am a little surprised, but happy for Trevor and the guys at AmigaKit.

Trevor is smart to not divulge information prematurely (this time) as that usually reflects badly on anyone guilty of such a mistake in this community and earns lots of criticism from several vocal members. Trevor learned that lesson well, during the delays that pushed the release of the X1000 further and further out from his hoped for initial release date(s).

I certainly do not expect Trevor to further contribute toward paying the increased cost of the PA6T CPU's, and would expect that any new production runs would only be possible if he has been able to obtain those parts at the same, or similar price as the first batch, or that he would ask a higher price for the next batch of X1000's. Of course I have no way of knowing what price he and AmigaKit have paid to obtain their parts.

I just hope that all is going well for Trevor and AmigaKit with their next endeavor(s), as they are great guys and I wish for them to be successful and prosperous. I also hope that some day A-Eon can come out with hardware that meets the requirements of the MorphOS Dev. Team (both in price and performance), as I would love to be able to support both teams (I mean the A-Eon/AmigaKit team and the MorphOS Dev. Team) on a common platform, as MorphOS3.x is still my favorite operating system of choice. That said, I don't regret purchasing my X1000 to run AmigaOS4.x, as I still retain my interest in all parts of the Amiga community.

>>> given that A-Eon should be well along with their development of its successor

>> I'm not sure this is true, considering Trevor's statement from just 5 weeks ago: [...]

> I don't want to reveal anything that I have been told, or otherwise been made
> aware of [...]. But I think it is safe to say that A-Eon and Varisys have not been
> idle for the last 6+ months since I last talked to Trevor [...]. Trevor is smart to not
> divulge information prematurely (this time) as that usually reflects badly on
> anyone guilty of such a mistake in this community and earns lots of criticism
> from several vocal members. Trevor learned that lesson well

Nice to know that the development of the X1000's successor may be way more advanced than Trevor's statement from 5 weeks ago makes it seem :-)

Btw, recent statement:

"we drove to High Wycombe to meet with Paul Gentle and Adam Barnes the Managing and Technical Directors of Varisys Ltd [...]. We reviewed the status of current developments [...]"
http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=2998

Addendum:

> Look who's sponsoring http://www.powerlinuxusersgroup.com :
> http://www.meetup.com/Servergy-Power-Linux-Users-Group/sponsors/ :-)

Some recent words from Trevor:

"Servergy, Inc, the people behind the PowerPC server technology have now formed the PowerLinux Users Group (PLUG), an international users group to control and shape the future of PowerLinux software development for the OpenSource community. [...] Power Linux may not be of interest to many Amigans, but that fact that Servergy are promoting open source PowerPC to global Power Linux developers can only be good for the future of PowerPC hardware."
http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=2998

Some more words (Google translation):

"Our interest for PowerPC Linux is twofold. L 'A1-X1000 already supports 9 PowerPC Linux distributions, as well as AmigaOS 4, which is the operating system for which it was originally designed. And' in our plans for all future products PowerPC-based hardware that will be developed for the Amiga OS 4 will also continue to support the PowerPC Linux distributions. There is also a large community of developers who are interested in Linux PowerPC PowerPC hardware platforms. We see this as a potential market for the development of hardware and selling."
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=http://deliriotecnologico.blogspot.com/2013/05/powerpc-back-to-future.html


Edit: PowerLinux Users Group (PLUG) seems dead now.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 27.08.2014 - 10:58 ]

Andreas_Wolf wrote:,
Quote:

Only Trevor and his partners know exactly how much progress has been made since last Oct., or if there have been any delays, or interruptions in the work being done on his next motherboard design. I can only hope that he and his partners have not run into any serious obstacles that would delay that work by many months, but as we observed with the design and development of the X1000's Nemo motherboard, with the limited resources available within our community, development times are extended much longer than those within say the Linux community, or the mainstream PC & Mac communities.

From Trevor's most recent blog statements, perhaps he will have some new information to release in July when he and AmigaKit attend the computer show in the UK that he mentioned in his blog. I already have all the hardware I need to run each of the operating systems I am interested in, but I am still rooting for his success, for the good of the community.

Update:

> it will be interesting to know whether Trevor will continue to
> pay the 475 USD extra costs of the 975 USD PA6T CPU.

More details coming from AmigaKit:

"The pricing of the PA-SEMI CPU is volatile unfortunately- the last production run we absorbed half the price increase and Trevor kindly absorbed the other half to ensure that the batch was produced for waiting customers. This time we will once again work hard to keep the price static for customers."
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=78258#forumpost78258

Update:

>> I wonder what, if any, involvement IBM has had with the development of the
>> Xbox 720 or PS4 cpus?

> Regarding the PS4 CPU, none I guess.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4#Console
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Accelerated_Processing_Unit#Jaguar_architecture_.28Kabini_and_Temash.29

Same with the XBox One CPU:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_One#Hardware

So Cell based PPCs are a dead issue.

> So Cell based PPCs are a dead issue.

Yes, apparently. This became clear 3 months ago at the latest. Even if Microsoft had opted for PPC, it surely wouldn't have been of the Cell type.

Reminder:

> Hyperionmp says:
> "The way in which it will be implemented however is already clearly defined
> and was subject to peer review by other developers. Obstacles to an
> efficient implementation were removed (e.g. the use of Forbid) and replaced
> in many OS components over the years (e.g. DOS). The foundation for
> SMP support was put in place, a clear picture exists what needs to be done
> to accomplish it and how. I'm willing to take a bet that it won't take 2 years ;)"
> http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34171&forum=33&start=40#627520

Only 3 months to go :-)