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It wouldn't change much. Maybe a few MorphOS ppl would join OS4. If one oth the OSes disapperars tomorrow it wouldn't change much for the other. About 10 years ago this would have been different, but not today.

I would use OS4 if cheap hardware was made available. OS4FE price is tight however. I used it on Peg2 and was for me a funny alternative to MorphOS. (Despite of quite GrimReapper visits). It gave me a good Amiga feeling too.

OS4 has been dead for years. It was badly injured when Eyetech did the bait-and-switch with the Escena "AmigaONE" with some failed Teron board; it was fatally wounded when it took almost five years to get a release version; and it died when Amiga Inc sued Hyperion into a debt pit it will never escape from (especially not by releasing full-price ports of ancient games you can get on steam for 59p).

The remaining users are just too stubborn to realise they are metaphorically waiting for a dead, rotted and now skeletal horse to wake up before they can ride into the glorious sunset, but that's nothing new. The continued denial of its users to the reality of its death neither hurts nor helps MorphOS. That damage was done years ago.

> OS4 [...] was badly injured when Eyetech did the bait-and-switch with the Escena "AmigaONE"
> with some failed Teron board

I can't remember Eyetech's switch from Escena's non-working hardware to MAI's almost working hardware having a bad influence on OS4 or its perception. Quite to the contrary.

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AmigaOne SE reflected very, very badly on both Eyetech and HYPErion. The SE was sold literally years before OS4 ever had a beta. Both Eyetech and HYPErion were complicit in covering up ***** related to the SE. It certainly helped me open my eyes. That board was sold as having "Amiga Inc's strictest quality control", yet in reality had fatal hardware flaws.


***** you fill in the blank.

[ Edited by redrumloa 08.11.2015 - 23:03 ]

>>> OS4 [...] was badly injured when Eyetech did the bait-and-switch with the
>>> Escena "AmigaONE" with some failed Teron board

>> I can't remember Eyetech's switch from Escena's non-working hardware to MAI's almost
>> working hardware having a bad influence on OS4 or its perception. Quite to the contrary.

> AmigaOne SE reflected very, very badly on both Eyetech and HYPErion.

And how was this reflection worse than that of the non-working Escena hardware, which was not shown once even running anything? Some OS4 fans were disappointed because the switch to Teron meant no real Amiga custom boards any more. But most of them seemed to eventually applaud the switch because this allegedly meant proven hardware from the PPC Linux world, as Linux already ran on the Teron. That this turned out to be a massive delusion is a different matter.

> The SE was sold literally years before OS4 ever had a beta.

This depends on what you think a beta of OS4 is, I guess. It was 1.5 years from the AmigaOne SE to the release of the first OS4 developer pre-release.

Like most commentators I doubt there will be a big exodus from OS 4 to MOS if OS 4 ceases to exist. But nevertheless I think the MorphOS community would gain a few users and so this situation could be seen as a win for MorphOS.

Why? Because it would be the only option left with a perspective for using that old 68k stuff AND ongoing development for PPC (and the prefigured ISA switch later).

I think the usual way to get 'drawn' into NG Amigas still is to be a classic user first. Like in my situation that may be enough for years, but if you read some forums you can become curious of what can be done with this NG Amigas. I already wanted to try out Amiga OS 4 about 3-4 years ago but the high price of new and second hand gear scared me off for just a hobby system. I was not interested in MorphOS then because of my dislike of buying Apple gear. Also second hand Apple hardware was more expensive that time either.

But as someone pointed out nowadays you can buy a Mac Mini G4 for 40 €, try out MorphOS for free and flush it down the toilet if you don't like it. In my case I am amazed what can be done with MorphOS on that hardware and never looked back! I am no longer interested in Amiga OS 4 because I don't see any advantage using it over my MorphOS/Ubuntu MATE dual boot.

The other way round if Morph OS disappears, I would look into AROS because you get some Amiga NG feeling on inexpensive hardware.

[ Editiert durch ernsteiswuerfel 09.11.2015 - 12:25 ]

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The Teron CX was two to three times the price of what Escena had claimed, and was full of bugs that Eyetech and Hyperion spent years trying to deny. Both did horrendous damage to the platform. I reckon from just ANN posters alone that lost OS4 9 out of 10 potential users.

- If OS4 was gone, there would be less 3rd party developers interested in AmigaNG, because OS4 userbase is bigger than ours, so they would have even less interest in coding for our system (there are already a lot 3rd party amiga ng devs avoiding morphos).

- Some MorphOS users would lose their only reason to discuss on boards like this. OS4 community is pretty active and lively compared to our one. So it would get rather quiet here.

- Then of course our developers would lose some part of their motivation due to lack of competition.

But on the other side, the MorphOS community is probably as dead as it gets. There is no real spirit here, no actions taken and no momemtum. No support for 3rd party devs, no feedback and not any interest in motivating other developers. All the main impulses are coming from the MorphOS Team. They release something new and people wake up, just to go sleeping again and waiting for a new release. Or in other words: When the MorphOS Team quits there will be nobody left interested or caring about this operating system.

my opinion.

@Cego

Being unfair much? There are quite a few third party developers out there, and most of them also develops for AmigaOS 4 as well. Like Develin and Daytona.

Quote:

Several AmigaOS 4 users have told me that they only turn on their computers to run Amiupdate. It doesn't mean that I assume no AmigaOS 4 users do anything besides that.

>>> OS4 [...] was badly injured when Eyetech did the bait-and-switch with the
>>> Escena "AmigaONE" with some failed Teron board

>> I can't remember Eyetech's switch from Escena's non-working hardware to MAI's almost
>> working hardware having a bad influence on OS4 or its perception. Quite to the contrary.

> The Teron CX was two to three times the price of what Escena had claimed

What is the price Escena (or rather: Eyetech) had claimed? And when was that? Any online source for it?

> and was full of bugs

Less severe bugs than the Escena hardware obviously.

> that lost OS4 9 out of 10 potential users.

It would have been 10 out of 10 with the non-functional Escena hardware.

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While I'm sure not 100% fit this mold, there are a lot more that do than most people probably know. I know, because they have told me so. Some are purely collectors. They started off as Amiga users and became collectors of anything Amiga related "to support the cause". These people see anything AmigaOne or OS4 related as an extension of the Commodore Amiga, so they collect them to.

One specific person I've considered a friend is a perfect example. In his home he has closets with new in the box 3rd party hardware just stacked up, never taken out of the box. When the Eyetech AmigaOnes came out he bought one. He had it set up in his house, but told me he really only powered it up when there was an update, or a major piece of software released. Last time I spoke with him a few years back he was talking about getting an X1000. He confided that he hadn't turned on his Eyetech AmigaOne in a few years, but would probably get an X1000 anyhow to support the cause even though he probably wouldn't use it. When I questioned if he ever considered trying MorphOS on a Power Mac, he said no because it had no "name" association.

I think there is the difference. MorphOS users want a functional system to use regularly. OS4 users want something to collect and talk about among themselves in forums. I have never met a MorphOS user who stated they got MorphOS supported hardware and a license, just to collect it and "support the cause".

[ Edited by redrumloa 09.11.2015 - 17:52 ]

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Quality vs quantity.

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Quality vs quantity. I much prefer the standard of conversation here than on the OS4 forums with page after page of endless drivel from emotionally unstable halfwits.

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Quality vs quantity again. The only person I see constantly bitching and whining whilst contributing feck all of use to discussions is you. Constantly.

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Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I really guess we are at a state where MorphOS and OS4 are going really different directions. OS4 will probably continue it's conservative rather-retro path with expensive hardware and a focus on fond memories while MorphOS is ready to something new and break with the past. Sure MorphOS NG will not take over teh world, but at least it'll be an attempt to have an actual future. It's in the name already: MorphOS is not static, it's changing, it's morphing.
Stillstand ist der Tod.

@intuition

mimimi :,-(

Quote:

Come to think about it, neither have I. Interesting point. I have heard several people claiming they bought AmigaOS 4 mostly to support the community. In most cases they bought FE to run it in emulation. A lot of them installed it and tried it once. Some even havn't opened their copy since they got it nearly a year ago.

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when you are bashing the MorphOS user and calling them lazy, they do nothing, the OS is slow and buggy insulting the OS devs then you should not be surprised when someone asks what you are still doing here.

BTW in todays terms all AmigaOS hardware options look poor, what is true for all PPC based solutions today because there is no support in real world for it anymore (example is Javascript JIT). AmigaOS with PPC is now driving to nowhere, MorphOS will at least change direction in future.

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I will be not surprised, if the other camp immediately decide to change the ISA too...

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I would be surprised then because Trevor D. has spend lots of money in his hobby. If they change direction and move to another ISA his new Tabor toy will be a huge loss because noone will buy it. A little like what happened with A600 after announcing A1200.

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To tell the truth, I also tend to agree with Cego, as it seems that nothing happens at MOS. The almost only exception is a new OS release. Maybe many guys are doing something in the background:
- Yasu's nice blog
- Bsili comes with a new game port :)
- jPV's scripts
- ...

My opinion is that, it could be more projects to be started by us (the users).
Also small things could be done, like collecting/sharing information, etc.

[ Edited by deka 10.11.2015 - 13:12 ]

Quote:

I cannot judge activity in morphos camp because I do not follow it that closely. I only look at the weekly uploads and there it seems most activity 3rd party on amigaos then aros and then morphos. Of course most only small updates of simple tools and not really big new projects today (on all camps). And of course there is sometimes a tendency to arrogance (MorphOS is superior in everything). But even if you tell the truth you cannot slap people in the face and insult everyone. The critic about Tabor always was correct and no Hyperion bashing. A underpowered and weak embedded hardware that is even unsuited for AmigaOS is a bad choice. Also numbers tell the truth like comparing it to other platforms. I do not think that this is arrogance how cego saw it.

@OlafSch

truth is almost every huge thread on MZ is OS4 related. Look for yourself. People are constantly bashing OS4 and at the same time there is no real productive topic about MorphOS and the question what the user can do to improve the system and the community. Yes, there are individuals who do a lot but it stands in no relation to the majority.

MorphOS users need OS4 for their own identification. Just the fact that its always about comparing between those two, shows that OS4 is an essential part of a MorphOS users state of mind.

I use harsh words i know, but others do the same. The only difference is that i dare to talk the truth and be critical about ourselves and our behaviour. Typical that the first reaction is something like "leave this place" or "you're an OS4 fanboy" blah blah.
For me that reacton is typical for a fanboy who doesnt want to hear any critisicm about his own thing.

And if MorphOS is really going to throw all the amiganess away, what will MorphOS become? What will be its identification? What will MorphOS stand for? And why should i still use it, if its going to become just another random operating system like many other and unknown ones out there? The main argument about MorphOS was always "AmigaOS done right".
But when this aspects going to lose, I'm probably better off with just any other OS which got all the benefits that morphos lack.

I always looked at morphos as an advanced and further developed AmigaOS 3.1 and i hope it'll stay that way and true to it's legacy and amiga philosophy.

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No, you dare to give us your opinion. And an opinion is rarely the only truth.

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I agree... ;)

I was told here many times, that we could show more activity, than today... To help the developers, as we can.
Also could make a new thread as 'Tasks for the braves'... But this tends to be off topic here.

Just an example. MorphOS is lacking documentation and HowTo's for beginners. Why isn't anybody from the community working on that? Lets get some ffmpeg/mplayer workshops done and show users how to cut and convert videos f.e.
Or some kind of Ambient manual to show off its strenght and power. An OWB howto, Showgirls, Prefs/MUI settings decription etc. nobody really cares. I started that kind of stuff on an german amiga forum but really lost interest because it is just a too huge task for one man.

There is absolutely nothing besides this kinda chaotic forum for morphos newbies. you cant get more user unfriendly than this.

Now you can come at me and tell me it is just my opinion. Yes thats true, it is my opinion, but i think i pretty much nailed it down when it comes to the truth and validity in my statement.

For me, doing all that community projects, has something to do with passion and dedication. But as it seems people are happier with talking about OS4 and failed hardware development instead of getting active and doing something for their own community.

[ Edited by Cego 10.11.2015 - 12:33 ]