Quote:

Yes, OS4 is the boat anchor to the X5000. For whatever reason, the X5000 or bare board will not sell until OS4 is done, if ever. MorphOS has no ties to OS4, therefore the X5000 becomes the boat anchor to MorphOS.

Hopefully the crew (MorphOS Team) pull anchor (X5000) and drift into the future (X86-64).

Quote:

Please don't conflate the criminal coverup that went on at AWN back then with your personal falling out with Wayne. You liked AO until Wayne admittedly took a heavy handed approach with you and most things MorphOS/Genesi. Wayne wasn't perfect, but AO's approach was night and day compared to AWN. I was part of the moderating crew at the time and didn't like everything that happened, but Wayne is a personal friend (offline) of mine so I don't want to say too much without him here to defend himself. My view may be biased about Wayne specifically, but not AO overall compared to the criminality of AWN.

AO: Wayne felt personally slighted by Genesi and did a bit of lashing out at who he perceived as supporters. (All put mildly, I'm not delving deep here. Not my fight.)

AWN: Engaged in a systemic massive coverup at all levels. If this were big business and not the little sandbox we were in, AWN could have been brought up on RICO charges in the US.

AO now is following in AWN's footsteps from the early-mid 00s. They have essentially one active moderator, and he is shutting down unclean conversation, locking threads that aren't 100% pro OS4 and even banning individuals for not toting the party line. Don't forget about this wanker. Whether he is taking orders from A-Eonkit or working independently, the results are the same. AO 2016 = AWN circa 2004.

[ Edited by redrumloa 12.09.2016 - 19:19 ]

Quote:

MorphOS PPC on X5000 offers a mature, stable and reasonably fast environment in which to write drivers for more modern video hardware than can be offered by PPC Macs. Something that probably can't be offered by MorphOS X64 at the moment. The advantage is that should be this code can re-used in an MorphOS X64 when it's ready.

> AmigaKit's ownership of both sites

So far they've allegedly been owned by "A-Eonkit". What happened? :-)

> the X5000 or bare board will not sell until OS4 is done, if ever.
> [...] therefore the X5000 becomes the boat anchor to MorphOS.

I still don't understand your metaphor, as the delay of the X5000 won't hold back MorphOS development in any way. Imminent release, further delay or even entire cancellation of the X5000 won't make a difference for MorphOS as development time will have been wasted for porting MorphOS to the X5000 either way.

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11137&start=301

> Hopefully the crew (MorphOS Team) pull anchor (X5000) and drift into the future (X86-64).

The porting of MorphOS to the X5000 has already happened, so I don't see how the existing (just not yet released to public) X5000 compatibility keeps MorphOS from drifting "into the future (X86-64)". Or do you think MorphOS is somehow going to drift faster if the MorphOS team reverts all changes and additions that have been done by them to the MorphOS source code for X5000 support? If so, how?

> MorphOS PPC on X5000 offers a [...] reasonably fast environment in which to
> write drivers for more modern video hardware than can be offered by PPC Macs.

While (currently) not supported by MorphOS, PCIe-based G5 Macs can use modern Radeon cards. However, for OpenFirmware (and MacOSX) display, a graphics card with PPC ROM would have to be installed in addition.

Quote:

Actually, the latest drivers can use Atom bios, so the Macs could run newer video cards (than those supported by OSX), but we would need PCIe G5 support in order to use them.

However, I'd still like an X5000 as it is a more modern, lower power solution.

Quote:

At least one MorphOS developer has stated that they will not abandon PPC as it's the CPU he/they most like to work with. From a commercial standpoint it's nuts, but from a hobbyist standpoint it's sensible. They work with what they like. I respect that.

I doubt there will be any new PPC desktop computers after the X5000 (and maybe the PPC laptop) for MorphOS to work with (since they are not going to port it to the Tabor). This mean that they will either use their time to polish the OS and fixing bugs until they finally decide to stop or they will use their time to do the same as well as working on the CPU switch. The last year they have lost two developers so I wouldn't be surprised if they decide not to do the CPU switch after all because of all the work. If they instead decide to keep working on what they got and make MorphOS a better OS anyway I don't have a problem with that. I rather have a MorphOS that works really well on my Mac Mini than one that works so-so on my Mac Mini and a X64 desktop.

If Hyperion should teach us anything, then it's that you can't take more work than you can finish. Because then the end result just won't be any good. Better then to look at the situation realistically and use your scarce resources where it is of best use which might be to not port to another CPU at all.

Don't get me wrong, I would buy a X86 desktop to run MorphOS on it in a heartbeat. But I rather use a good MorphOS on old hardware than a MorphOS on new hardware that only lives on the promise of becoming good one day. It's not that I don't trust the developers to do the right thing, but I hope they don't fall for the preasure from the user base and do something they themselves feel they should not.

Quote:

Actually, the latest drivers can use Atom bios, so the Macs could run newer video cards (than those supported by OSX), but we would need PCIe G5 support in order to use them.

However, I'd still like an X5000 as it is a more modern, lower power solution.

Edit - Sorry, that info just duplicates Andreas' post (but is less concise).
From the R500 series and up, the drivers can us Atom bios.

Quote:

@Jim

It's certainly possible, but I wouldn't bet on it. Who would do such a scale down in order to make it affordable? Even the cheapest development boards are more expensive than an X5000. Most people can't afford it.

> At least one MorphOS developer has stated that they will not
> abandon PPC as it's the CPU he/they most like to work with.

Has this statement been made in public? If so, do you have a link to it?

> I doubt there will be any new PPC desktop computers after the X5000
> (and maybe the PPC laptop) for MorphOS to work with [...].

Raptor's Talos would be a nice upgrade from the X5000. Unfortunately, it has grown too expensive over the months.

> I rather have a MorphOS that works really well on my Mac Mini
> than one that works so-so on my Mac Mini and a X64 desktop.

Current MorphOS only works "so-so" on your Mac mini? :-)

Quote:

First, no, no statement has been made in public, and repeating anything said in private betrays a confidence.

But I do believe this statement is accurate.

Second, Power8 systems are slightly higher priced than the X1000 or X5000, but significantly higher performing.
And, with time, the price for a basic system could go down.
If these could be sourced at about $2K...

I have read it somewhere but like so many other statements I have not bookmarked it. You have to take my word for it. But it was not made in private. I'm careful not to say anything that will betray my NDA. And truth be told, they don't let me in on a lot of things anyway

> Current MorphOS only works "so-so" on your Mac mini?

No, but if they make a lot of changes it might.

> And, with time, the price for a basic system could go down.

Only if there is a market. But most people have no real use for high performance servers. An old PC or a RaPi will probably be good enough for most people but waaaay cheaper. It's not even sure at this point if Power8+ have a stable holding in the server market either.

I also want to point out in case there is some confusion:

I didn't mean that the said developer wants to only concentrate on PPC, but that he/they will continue their support of PPC even if they start supporting something else as well. Which should be fairly uncontroversial.

[ Edited by Yasu 13.09.2016 - 15:36 ]

>>> At least one MorphOS developer has stated that they will not
>>> abandon PPC as it's the CPU he/they most like to work with.

>> Has this statement been made in public?

> no, no statement has been made in public

How do you know?

> repeating anything said in private betrays a confidence.

Yes, that's why I asked for a public statement.

> I do believe this statement is accurate.

Yes, there's no reason to believe said MorphOS team member would lie about his own preference.

>> Raptor's Talos [...] has grown too expensive over the months.

> Power8 systems are slightly higher priced than the X1000 or X5000

I specifically mentioned the Talos because it's an ATX desktop/workstation type of computer (as opposed to server blade or similar) and because its design is licensable. Unfortunately, it's become way more expensive than X1000/X5000 (see link). The Talos board is now almost 3 times the announced X5000/20 system price and slightly more than 2½ times the last Nemo board price.
The only other suitable POWER8 system would be the Tyan Palmetto system, which is still 1½ times the announced X5000/20 system price and almost 1½ times the last Nemo board price.

> I have read it somewhere [...]. [...] it was not made in private.

Do you remember who said it?

> I'm careful not to say anything that will betray my NDA.

Betatester NDA? :-)

Quote:

I don't know who mentioned this to Johhannes, but I have my suspisions.
And I can't answer that question without pissing off someone, so I'm not.
But it was said, you will either have to take our words for it (or not).
But...do you really think this project would be abandoned?

Quote:

Wayne did exactly what the AWN crowd did. He started fights, then abused his moderatorship by deleting the reply and banning the people who he argued with if it looked like they were getting the better of him. He had been doing it to others for years - indeed, it was one of the main reasons AWN existed in the first place. AWN's existence is partly due to Wayne Hunt, and the behaviour of its moderators following his example.

The only difference between him and the squad of scumbags that eventually got kicked out of AWN is that he was at times lucid, while they were all scumbag all of the time.

Quote:

Compared to what, a guy who worked for Genesi who decided that he was going to censor all the OS4 supporters?

Quote:

And the three active users a day don't seem to care. They are easily ignored. They didn't used to be easy to ignore when there were hundreds of them, and thousands of visitors, and they were spreading lies and disinformation that impacted good people directly.

[ Edited by KennyR 13.09.2016 - 20:13 ]

Yes, my beta tester NDA. But I have no insider information beyond the fixes and new stuff I'm testing.

And you make me feel I have crossed some sort of line here so I don't feel comfortable saying anything more.

Quote:

Can you provide a citation? You could make the argument when he unceremoniously left Genesi that he censored some connected to the blue side, but I don't remember him ever censoring OS4 users. Many OS4 users were upset at the time because opposing points of view were allowed, and some of those points of view were sharp. OS4 users could post what they wanted, they just had to deal with the fact others disagreed.

If you could provide citation of OS4 users being censored, that would be interesting. I'd like to think I wasn't a moderator on a board censoring opposing viewpoints.

>>> I have read it somewhere [...]. [...] it was not made in private.

>> Do you remember who said it?

> I don't know who mentioned this to Johhannes, but I have my suspisions.

As far as I understand, it was a public statement, so wasn't mentioned to him specifically.

> I can't answer that question without pissing off someone, so I'm not.

As Yasu said, the statement was made in public. So why shoud anyone be pissed off? I'm puzzled.

> you will either have to take our words for it (or not).

Of course I take Yasu's word for it, but why do you give me your word when you don't even remember said public statement? I'm confused.

> But...do you really think this project would be abandoned?

Which project? It somehow begins to feel like Twilight Zone here ;-)

> you make me feel I have crossed some sort of line here so
> I don't feel comfortable saying anything more.

Okay, this *is* Twilight Zone :-)

Quote:

I dont give a shit about the other two guys but saying something like that about Wayne, a guy who put so much time and effort into AO and the fucking ungrateful users that have come and gone over the years on AO is fucked up. Wayne did get burned and after all of that he just said "I'm out". What have you done for the Amiga community thats as great as Wayne did over the years? At least give him the "thank you" he deserves instead of running his name thru the mud.