> I don't think you really think that. ;)

Then you're wrong about what I think.

Please answer:
What exactly are my "representations about [Genesi's "MPC5200B with onboard Volari gfx chip" project]" that you don't take as fact?
Care to explain your "other 5200B [board]" statements, especially in context of the feasibility of Genesi's "MPC5200B with onboard Volari gfx chip" project?

Addendum:

>> It remains to be seen if any MPC5xxx processors will be produced in
>> the future but seeing as the entire division at Freescale was
>> disbanded and now most of the engineers are working on i.MX or at
>> other companies.. and Freescale's PPC product group focusses on
>> network and imaging processors rather than automotive..

> http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1338824
> http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC564xL

And another one:
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7014&forum=11

Addendum:

>>> It remains to be seen if any MPC5xxx processors will be produced in
>>> the future but seeing as the entire division at Freescale was
>>> disbanded and now most of the engineers are working on i.MX or at
>>> other companies.. and Freescale's PPC product group focusses on
>>> network and imaging processors rather than automotive..

>> http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1338824
>> http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC564xL

> And another one:
> https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7014&forum=11

Looking at page 42 of the following April 2010 document, I stand by my assessment that Freescale is not going to replace Power Architecture by i.MX products in the domain of automotive except for telematics and infotainment:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.freescale.com/files/training/doc/FREESCALE_COMPANY_OVERVIEW.pdf

Or there (page 5, June 2010):

http://www.freescale.com/files/ftf_2010/Americas/WBNR_FTF10_AUT_F0814_PDF.pdf

In the following April 2010 document i.MX is not even mentioned before page 28 ("DIS and Infotainment"), and even there the MPC51xx/55xx/56xx are still listed (except for page 30):

http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/brochure/BRAUTOSOL.pdf

Edit: Changed link to Freescale company overview PDF to Google cache because document is no more.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf on 2011/1/3 22:09 ]

Are we losing sight of the fact that Matt wouldn't mind selling some more product?

I don't know about the rest of you, but to me Genesi is a dead issue. Interesting product, I don't want one. I wasn't that impressed with Efika either. These are not desktop designs. While you can argue that compact systems have an advantage, I can just as easily point out that if you want a compact system you can buy an Apple Mac Mini.

Too many of you seem willing to jump ship and move to other architectures simply because they're attracting more attention.

> Are we losing sight of the fact that Matt wouldn't mind
> selling some more product?

I'm just not getting tired of pointing out that one year after he declared Power Architecture (MPC5xxx) dead for automotive it's still living happily in that domain with new products getting released by Freescale on a regular basis :-)

Btw, I think you answered the wrong posting (see threaded view) ;-)

Yes, a lot of posts between where my answer would have fit and where it is.

Good point on the PPC alternatives to the ARM processor. If Matt and other Genesi's employees want to stay on Freescale's good side, they might not want to appear to be so biased toward one architecture.

> Yes, a lot of posts between where my answer would have fit and where it is.

That's not what I meant. Again: see threaded view to see what you answered to.

> Good point on the PPC alternatives to the ARM processor.

It's not about PPC being an alternative to ARM. I was mainly referring to automotive sub-domains (engine management, driver assistance etc.) where there's just no ARM counterpart available. About one year ago Neko predicted that ARM/i.MX would replace Power Architecture in these automotive sub-domains. It didn't, and I predict that it won't.

Matt's statements are often biased by his employer's focus.

Why bother contending a claim like that? You should have known he wasn't that well informed when he failed to see the difference between processors designed for engine management and those suited to passenger devices.

> Why bother contending a claim like that?

To prove it was false.

> You should have known he wasn't that well informed when he failed
> to see the difference between processors designed for engine management
> and those suited to passenger devices.

I *knew* very well that he was wrong. By contending his claim I can *prove* he was wrong. Being able to prove something is better than just knowing (or believing to know?) it :-)

I don't know. Having spent too much time on Amiga related forums, the line between belief and knowing seems awfully frayed and abused.

Sometime it helps to have someone around who helps to keep the distinction clear.

Quote:

You mean the iMX 515 based products? I guess the problem is, you actually would want one, pity it doesn't exist. This was an attempt at a consumer product, and yet they haven't been able to deliver.

Getting under freescale's wing looked very right when Genesi decided it. Then, building the Pegasos and actually selling them to freescale made that decision look bright. But then, the (unavoidable) Linux twist, and most of all, the delays in final chip productions, hurt the most.
Heck, they even had a very hard time to finally get working something as simple as the original Efika. Then, the 512x fiasco, the 8610 false start... Too many developments stalled halfway.
Genesi does all they can, but look at the smartbook and tablet boom at recent consumer electronics shows. And they still don't have final product.

Quote:

...and the funny thing is that, actually, Genesi was also moving to another architecture by someone else's decision too: They went to where freescale wenr.
Have you seen their, once PowerPC-themed, "powerdeveloper.com" site recently? Hell, we weirdo morphers have MORE activity than them, with our "dead" platform!

I tend to think that I owe Genesi something, because they were thete playing an important role in our Amigan/MorphOS history. But that's long gone. The MorphOS Team got independent from Genesi long ago, and they are not doing bad, considering the current global sittuation. In fact, what they do, they do it very well. MorphOS delivers.

> They went to where freescale wenr.

Just want to add that Freescale/Motorola has been doing i.MX for nearly 10 years now.

> Have you seen their, once PowerPC-themed, "powerdeveloper.com" site recently?
> Hell, we weirdo morphers have MORE activity than them, with our "dead" platform!

There's probably more activity on imxcommunity.org than on powerdeveloper.org today. But you should know that better I guess ;-)

@ jcmarcos

Quote:

With regard to modern ARM chips (Cortex A8 / A9 level) at frequencies near of exceeding 1 Ghz, barely anybody appears to have consumer-ready products. In fact, a number of high-profile products such as Lenovo's Skylight have been cancelled before they went into mass production. HP's Compaq Airlife 100 is only sold in Spain for the time being, and so on.

> With regard to modern ARM chips (Cortex A8 / A9 level) at frequencies near of
> exceeding 1 Ghz, barely anybody appears to have consumer-ready products.
> In fact, a number of high-profile products such as Lenovo's Skylight have been cancelled
> before they went into mass production. HP's Compaq Airlife 100 is only sold in Spain for
> the time being, and so on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartbook#Designs (Sharp NetWalker PC-Z1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(processor)#Devices_using_Snapdragon (various phones)

Quote:

And yet, many would agree that there's been a switch.

Quote:

Sadly, there's no wolves over there

Quote:

Then, all those prototypes, that I percieve as success stories, actually aren't. Interesting.

Quote:

Wow! In my own, crisis devastated country? Those HP guys must be crazy... It's true, our biggest cell phone operator, Movistar, seems to sell it. Fascinating!

@ A. Wolf

Please see the quote I included in my post. jcmarcos was specifically referring to smartbooks and tablets. I did not intent to make any statements regarding phones or similarily sized media players.

The Sharp PC-Z1, on the other hand, could indeed be included in my list. So could the iPad, which is admittedly very successful. That said, my point remains. There are close to no products out there.

Arm is the way to go while struggling to reach 1Ghz and low wattage PPC processors from Apllied Micro and PA Semi that clock between 1.5 and 1.8 Ghz passively cooled are a dead end?

That's strange. If IBM wanted to return to struggling with marketing PPC/Cell technology for PCs we'd have 3.2 Ghz or higher processors.

PPC doesn't look dead, it just looks like some of the players are jumping on to a well promoted (and overloaded) bandwagon.

[ Edited by Jim on 2010/6/23 13:36 ]

> yet, many would agree that there's been a switch.

Yes, looks likely in a way: e700 cancelled and e600 EOL'd, while i.MX performance is advancing into their own Power Architecture CPU's levels. But on the other hand, Freescale's Power Architecture department just got a massive performance boost again with the advent of the e5500 core.

> Sadly, there's no wolves over there

As a MorphOS user, my interest lies where MorphOS is. For now that's Power Architecture :-)

> Please see the quote I included in my post. jcmarcos was specifically
> referring to smartbooks and tablets.

Yes, with my reference to phones I lost context. My bad.

> my point remains. There are close to no products out there.

As the definition of "close to none" lacks any quantification I won't dispute that ;-)

> Arm is [...] struggling to reach 1Ghz

Btw, did you follow my hint to Freescale's i.MX roadmap over there? If I had glasses I would have attempted to clean them to be sure it's really written there ;-)

Addendum:

> e700 cancelled [...]. But on the other hand, Freescale's Power Architecture department
> just got a massive performance boost again with the advent of the e5500 core.

It may actually be that the e5500/e500mc64 became what was announced as e700 six years ago, which would mean that the e700 was *not* cancelled (but rather put on ice for some time inbetween):

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7001&forum=3&start=240


Edit: On the other hand:
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7001&forum=3&start=353

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf on 2010/7/8 15:05 ]

Update:

> About one year ago Neko predicted that ARM/i.MX would
> replace Power Architecture in these automotive sub-domains.
> It didn't, and I predict that it won't.

Freescale's Global Automotive Segment Marketing Director says:

"Power Architecture technology is the platform used for Freescale's most advanced automotive devices, and it's carrying our product portfolio into the next decade. It is the technology of choice for many automotive OEMs and tier ones. [...] So, the next time you get in your car, there's a good chance that Power Architecture technology will get you to your destination."
http://blogs.freescale.com/2010/10/20/powering-todays-automobiles-into-the-future/

Seems that Freescale is following my prediction quite well ;-)

haven't heard anything from him lately either

> haven't heard anything from him lately either

He's more active at his usual places:

http://blog.efikamx.info
http://www.powerdeveloper.org/profile/8
http://imxcommunity.org/profile/MattSealey

I don't expect him to comment here on the discrepancy between his prediction and reality though ;-)

...which reminds me something I've been thinking lately: It's quite amazing that this very site, about an obscure operating system and old hardware, is more lively than those sites combined!