> No other alternative than A-eon? [...] that isn't true. Before they created
> their line of PPC boards, we were looking at creating an MPC8610 board

When the bounty about the MPC8610-based board to be designed by bplan was drafted in late 2009, the Nemo board was already in development at Varisys for almost one year.

> you'd have to spend a whole $10 more for a T10XX CPU.

Current Freescale prices:

1.2 GHz P1022: 53.17 USD

vs.

1.2 GHz T1013: 31.17 USD
1.2 GHz T1023: 32.81 USD
1.2 GHz T1014: 33.56 USD
1.2 GHz T1024: 33.64 USD
1.4 GHz T1022: 49.22 USD
1.4 GHz T1042: 54.69 USD

As you can see, all T1 chips except the T1042 are cheaper than the P1022.

> they never sold anything as low cost as the Efika.

...and as low performing :-)

> WE have a far larger base of supported equipment than OS4 (outside of legacy support [...]).

Some might call PPC Macs as legacy hardware ;-)

Quote:

Hmm, that reflects even worse on Tabor.
And the T1042's price is easy to understand, its a quad.



[ Edited by Jim 03.11.2015 - 12:30 ]

> the other CPU was not available at that time, so they probably chose the best
> alternative for the tabor.

They could have used the fully compatible, albeit slightly more expensive APM chips instead, or wait a little more for the T1 series (announced as early as June 2012).

> The OS4 guys have the Sam440, 460 and X1000

Only Sam460 availably as new, others are sold out either long ago (Sam440) or just recently (X1000).

> they're still getting more and more hardware with the X5000 and Tabor.

MorphOS has been announced for the X5000 as well. Missed it?

> its more then fair to honour the people realizing that.

There's no reason to honour someone for something that's conceived as a bad decision.

> WE have OLD and USED Mac Systems besides the Sam460 to choose from.

That's not worse than what's available for OS4 currently to choose from.

> my original statement that the OS4 guys have more new hardware configs to choose
> from is true.

No, it's not. It might become true somewhen in the future when OS4 will be available for Tabor.

> My anger is directed towards our morphos community, because nobody really cares
> and honours the work of other people. As soon as somebody outside of our world
> produces anything people start to hate about it.

What's your problem with people like Jim who clearly welcome the porting of MorphOS to the CyrusPlus/X5000 (and maybe even to Sam460), but think that Tabor was a bad idea for purely technical reasons? What does this have to do with hate?

> our MorphOS team [...] don't care. They develop for themselves.

That's certainly debatable.

> every new hardware [...] is a plus for the Amiga community.

As explained, it's not about e500v2-based hardware or no hardware at all. There were alternatives (including waiting some more).

> The Tabor has 1.1 Ghz

It's been announced as 1.2 GHz.

Quote:

Wow, $1.52 more for a quad processor with a standard fpu!
$22.00 less for a single core processor that also has a standard fpu(which is all we need right now)!

Both 64bit, not 32bit.

Huh, kind of really points out the problem here doesn't it?

Maybe we need a community initiative to build a T10XX based board.
Think we should try to draw Bill Buck into this?

It would get an interesting reaction from the OS4 crowd.

And, btw, I am not anti-OS4.
That assertion is beginning to wear thin.
Actually, I've been in contact with the developer of the Radeon HD drivers congratulating him on his work.

Again, WE are not the polarizing agents.


[ Edited by ASiegel 03.11.2015 - 20:05 ]

duplicate post


[ Edited by Jim 03.11.2015 - 12:35 ]

@Andreas

well my concern is not only about the arguments its also about the attitude how people talk about others and we morphos users are often act like we're the highest level of evolution and enlighted by the true amiga spirit. that arrogance is annoying me. yes there are os4 users who are quite similar but nevertheless there is still a spirit in the os4 community and positivity, just like in the classic one. just look through mz and tell me where all that stuff has been gone in our community? sometimes i have the feeling that theres nothing more important than bashing everything os4 related. morphos lacks a supportive and vivid community. all that bullshitting will get us nowhere. we can be lucky that our devs are pretty competent and fast in developing and improving morphos. otherwise morphos community was long gone.

i met an os4 Games developer and i asked him about morphos Support of his game. well you know what he told me? he's done with the morphos users because he got absolutely no feedback or support from anyone. he has a huge respect for the devs and a good relationship but he'll never ever do anything for morphos again.

Quote:

Did I just walk into the Twilight Zone? Why exactly should a MorphOS user be grateful A-Eonkit will be selling a Raspberry Pi class motherboard for an exorbitant amount of money? A board that the MorphOS Team have rightfully stated would be a waste of time supporting?

Also, why do you even pose a question about "done for the community"? The only thing end users need to do is vote with their dollars. A-Eonkit are running a commercial business, not a nonprofit charity.

This board won't be for sale with a working OS4.1 port until at least 2018. Do you really expect people to pretend like a ~500Euro rpi level board in 2018 will be a good idea?

Quote:

YOU have a biased view.
Most of use are quite supportive.
In fact I regularly thank our developers for their hard work.

Come to think of it, I have even offered support to some OS4 developers.

Where is all this "positivity" you see in the OS4 community?
I just see argumentative sycophants.
And WE certainly get nothing positive from them, because they have 'the Real Amiga OS'.

So, I don't know what to tell you.
I wish them well with this badly thought out project, WITH the knowledge that I will get abuse from people like you for not agreeing with them or the community line.

The tone of this thread is unfortunate. (Demonstrates waffling and a lack of serious commitment to any existing new hardware on the part of some)
If you don't like the specs of the Tabor then why do you feel the need to throw tantrums. ?
(ah tantrums get you noticed in the Amiga crowd)
Just move on to focus something that appeals to you .(New ISA's for instance)
Also don't get stuck in the trend of thought that does not allow the exploration of different approaches to solve a perceived problem .(Why cant I get my Sam460ex a network connection under MorphOS?)

Quote:

The only one I see hating here is you.

Quote:

I can buy clean new looking G5 PowerMac all day long for $50-200. Each and every one of them will run circles around this board for a fraction of the cost. This ridiculous board can't even keep pace with a PowerMac G4 from 13 years ago which are often free dumpster finds. Heck, even the X1000 can't keep up with PowerMac G4. It remains to be seen if an X5000 will be able to.

If someone wants a "new" system they can get an Efika, a Sam460 and soon an X5000. The adoption rate of Sam460 by MorphOS users by all accounts seem to be terribly small. The adoption rate of this board would probably be somewhere around zero.

Quote:

It is not the responsibility of any consumer to prop up a business making ridiculous decisions. It is up to the business to make something developers want to support and consumers want to buy. I'd need to have a full frontal lobotomy before I'd even consider buying such nonsense they are peddling.

Quote:

You are the one using the word idiot. You can use whatever words you want. You may want to go back and read up the threads about the so called Amiga Netbook, aka Limebook. The decision making in OS4 land can be head scratching at times, to put it kindly.

Quote:

Option 1
Option 2
Option 3
Option 4

Decision to support option 2 was probably disastrous, though I doubt the MorphOS team would admit it. Time will tell how how option 3 pans out. Will people pay $2,500 for a "new" computer that best scenario will perform like a 10+ year old mid range G5 costing $100-$200?

Besides, the MorphOS Team is very upfront now about leaving this silly PPC sandbox in the future. It will be very nice to be able to use (hopefully) X86-64 off the shelf MBs.


[ Edited by redrumloa 03.11.2015 - 13:48 ]

erm, the Sam460 is pretty much the same compared to a RaspPi and it still got MorphOS support.

And maybe you don't get it. Nobody is making money out of this. Everybody in this community is doing it for the passion even our devs. Its a hobby. The Amiga market is probably the worst one to choose when it comes to business and making money. Are you that kind of ignorant?
Neither Jens Schoenfeld, A-EON or anybody else is doing this for money. Maybe you should get that into your brain.
When you expect hardware to be made for ca. 1000 users in the same price range than an rasperry pi, then you're just an illusionist who lives in another world. But hey, i'm pretty sure that you and probably everybody else who are critisizing A-EON are pretty much aware of all that, you're not dumb. So i still wonder why you're nevertheless so harsh and hostile agains A-EON or OS4 development. Maybe you just wanna hate and feel yourself some kind of better and greater by doing that? I call that inferiority complex. Why can't you just have fun with your hobby? Thats what its all about. nothing more nothing less. I got the feeling that a lot of people here are still considering all this as a competition to become the best and put everybody else in their place. Grow up dude. The big times are over and neither MorphOS or anything else is going to land a big hit. We will never ever be able to compete with the real mainstream systems.

Our MorphOS community is pretty much dead because of that kind of arrogance and behaviour. Don't tell me that you're happy with that.

Btw, i am also paying hundreds of euros for my A1200 system but nobody complains and asks why. Yeah i could buy an RapsPi or an PC for a fraction of that money and make everything much more easier, but thats not what i want and what this hobby is about. If you want a cheap and fast hardware go buy an PC (well 10 year old macs are not really considerable as fast ;) ).

@Andreas

regarding the devs and their motivation of developing. Yes they do it for themselves. I heard that a lot of times personally from team members, the last time in Neuss at the 30th amiga anniversary. The fact is, both devs and users are fine with that situation as long as both of 'em are satisfied with what they get. But hey, maybe the day will come when they decide to withdraw MorphOS from the public and only use it for themselves in private. Don't get me wrong, i'm very happy with morphos but i'm not getting into any illusions about the idea and motivation of the devs regarding our community. In other words, they don't care about the community. it is not their goal to satisfy our needs and wishes. i think its more of a win - win situation. We pay the money, they add some features and buy new hardware to develope furhter with all that money they got.

Quote:

thats quite interesting. Maybe people don't wanna buy mainstream hardware? Maybe they wanna have besides their own custom OS also their own custom hardware? Why should i buy an A1200 when i can buy a PC which emulates circles around that machine? Why should i invest 111 Euros for a underpowered, buggy and unsecure system like MorphOS and run it on an old and near-to-death hardware? I probably invested 300-400 Euros into my morphos setup, and still its pretty embarresing compared to a new PC.

You wanna use a custom Operating System on mainstream hardware. I'm fine with that. But there are also people who wanna run their custom OS on custom hardware. There's nothing wrong with that.

You are talking about overpriced and underpowered developments? The whole Amiga market is underpowered and overpriced. Yes, even MorphOS. But you do know that no matter what, for you it is worth the money and thatswhy you're investing all that money into MorphOS.

Your whole arguments are contradictory to your own actions. Everything you've bought is a waste of money compared to what you can get out there in the mainstream. But you still did it. Actually you do just the same as all those OS4 users. Spend too much money on a too much underpowered system.

[ Edited by Cego 03.11.2015 - 19:03 ]

Quote:

Why do you post here except to try to sell us on buying and supporting a bad design that the OS4 crowd will support like sheep.

BTW - WE had the first PPC boards, Amiga Inc eventually tried to follow our lead by selling relabeled evaluation boards.

I like Trevor, and am grateful he decided to invest in new PPC hardware, but I am not going to be bullied into accepting a bad decision of his and Varisys'.

"tantrums get you noticed in the Amiga"

Your overvalue your opinion and exaggerate our concern over the OS4 community.

And these 'tantrums' you try to minimize have nothing to do with OS4, they are logical statements as to why we shouldn't support Tabor.

Think you are going to change our minds by belittling us?
Then you really have adopted an OS4 community outlook.

"Why cant I get my Sam460ex a network connection under MorphOS?"

Because you were too stupid to install a supported network card, until a native driver was created?
Since that is EXACTLY what X1000 owners had to do originally to replace some of their onboard hardware.

When you have a GOOD point, come back.

In the meanwhile, we will be just fine.

And when the supplies of PPCs run out, where will OS4 users be?
We will be using an improved version of an operating system that was already better than theirs.

On a cheaper to implement ISA, and we won't have to worry about arguing with salesmen.



[ Edited by Jim 03.11.2015 - 14:58 ]

A lot of harsh word. Especially from Cego.

First, is the MorphOS community dead? I havn't noticed. If anything I think it has grown these last few years. Just like the AOS 4 crowd.

Second, I wonder why you like to use the word "hate" so much. It's pretty self evident that most people don't hate A-Eon here. Jim wants to buy a X5000, and most people, even ones like me who can't afford one, is at least glad that it is available. Don't confuse critizism (valid as well as not valid) with hate. It's childish.

Third, no one thinks MorphOS is going to take over the world any more than AmigaOS 4 will. But we are excited that an ISA shift is planned so MorphOS will get some new, future proof life in it.

Forth, Jens is doing it for the money actually. He don't do project he doesn't expect to make a profit from. Unlike A-Eon who seems to not worry about profits. Kudos to that!

Fifth, it's my opinion that the AOS 4 bashing nowadays comes mostly from other AOS 4 users who are disapointed about one thing or another. No wonder, there has been a lot of disapointments (no 4.2, no laptop, no smp, no gallium, basic drivers that cost extra, not fully supported hardware, a bad but expensive port of firefox etc). The times MorphOS users has complained has been when code was stolen.

Sixth, the AOS community is no better or worse than the MorphOS community when it comes to respect of the other side.

i mean "turd sandwich" pretty much nails your ignorant and arrogant state of mind. people like you should piss off and never come back.

Quote:

The only tantrums are by certain individuals who are inconsolable because people are discussing a commercial hardware project honestly and objectively.

If we were discussing a microwave or garden shears, no one would be upset. If we were discussing a new Asus X86 board, no one would be upset. Since it is a hardware project specifically for the OS4 Kommunity, supporters have almost a religious zeal. Unfortunately for them, I don't get shouted down easy.

Quote:

nope, Jens is earning his money with network devices he produces. He personally told me that he absolutely makes no profit out of all this. I had a nice talking with him in Neuss too.
Sorry dude, but you can count with both of your hands the active users in this forum. This is probably the only serious community site about morphos and theres not even one person to fix all the bugs here.

Hah hah hah.
Truth revealed on his level of knowledge.

Quote:

@Cego

Then he told my friend a different thing. He doesn't get rich by this but he usually does break a small profit. Unless you are right there.

I could also say the same about Amigans.net.

[ Edited by Yasu 03.11.2015 - 20:26 ]

Quote:

Actually, I rather liked that label, but it offended many including Andre Seigel.
Unfortunately,you've brought it up after it was censored.
And out of respect for the others here (especially Andre), I'm no longer taking the bait.

You own your own anger.
I'm just amused at how easily you all try to justify bad decisions.
I'm a relatively recent addition to the MorphOS community.
Never owned a Peg.
I just like this OS better and I have the greatest respect for its developers.

Some of you guys are getting rather cult like.
Luckily we have people like AmigaDave to counterbalance that trend.

Look, Johannes is right, I do want to buy an X5000.

Its an exemplary machine.
And as to Tabor, you have repeated what I truly believe it should be known as.

So, go eat your lunch.

"people like you should piss off and never come back"

Why when it will be so entertaining to see you proven wrong?

And do you own the Amiga community like a club?

We are now getting to see some of the real vitriol in the minds of some OS4 fanatics.

And I'm not even concerned about them, just about what hardware we are willing to support.

Quote:

And I bet if I got the MorphOS developers drunk, they'd admit wishing to have never supported it. The Sam460 is horribly underpowered to do any serious modern computing.

Quote:

Stop it, just stop. You honestly going to preach to me the state of the Amiga marketplace? You've gone full OS4 fanboy. A-Eonkit and Individual Computers are commercial businesses, not registered charities. Matt Leeman and his couple employees live off profit made from A-Eonkit sales. Jens certainly makes profit from his products. Even Trevor himself will tell you the goal is to turn a profit, not make a loss. I'd like you to provide links to statements any of these people have made that they are a nonprofit organization.

Quote:

You keep on blabbing about this. A-Eonkit can price this board wherever they want, just don't expect people outside of the narrow OS4 Kommunity to throw rose peddles and type fawning praise. It is what it is.

Quote:

Absolutely amazing that they very person melting down, hurling insults at breakneck speed and throwing an epic shitstorm tantrum is calling someone else hostile for discussing the technical aspects of a commercial hardware project.

BTW, are you even eating your own dog food or are you morphing into another Hondo? What A-Eonkit computer do you own? An X1000?

Quote:

Man, you really do sound like a Linux user trying to imitate a second rate villain.

You REALLY aren't aware that the X1000 initially required cards to be installed in order to replace onboard devices that weren't supported yet?

Its definitely your "level of knowledge" that is in question now.

"Hah hah hah." - It even sound like a soon to be defeated villain's comment, doesn't it guys.

Look if anyone WANTS to take further abuse from the OS4 fanboys...
Well be my guest.

I'm not here taking it to heart anymore, its just become amusing.

EDIT - AND I'd like to offer a most sincere apology to Andre Seigel for ever taking it any other way. Sorry Andre, you guys have been taking stuff like this far longer than I, and my reaction was immature.

Jim Igou

[ Edited by Jim 03.11.2015 - 15:03 ]

Quote:

Now you have gone either full stupid or full troll.

Anyhow, how about being a man and give full disclosure for your purpose promoting this board on Morphzone? What percentage of gross profits will you receive for your Linux porting and promotional efforts?

[ Edited by redrumloa 03.11.2015 - 15:04 ]

> Wow, $1.52 more for a quad processor with a standard fpu!

...and 0.2 GHz faster :-)