Hi, again sorry if this has already been covered somewhere... I decided to finally register MorphOS 3.9, I'm trying to
slowly migrate from my old 1.4.5 system... now having some little problems with Ambient.

First question, is version 1.44 contained in the MOS 3.9 iso up to date ? Or is there an official Ambient page around where
I can find updates ? The ones I could find on Sourceforge seems quite outdated...

I ask cos I have some problems and, before asking, I wanted to make sure I was dealing with an up to date version...

First thing.. the text gadged used for the RENAME option has some issues... some keys don't work (for example the
underscore) and often when I scroll the cursor to the extreme left it disappears, or other strange behaviours aswell...

Second thing... it looks like there's no automatic way to create an icon for a file without icon... I'd have expected that
snapshotting the ghosted default icon would create one on the fly...

Third question... is there any option to enable display of free RAM in the screen bar or I must resort to a third party
utility ?

Last question... what do u think in general, is it worth to install Scalos, or Dopus ? Which desktop is better in your opinion ?

Thanks for answering my perhaps silly questions ^_^

Here's a link to some of the screenbar module options for MorphOS

MorphOS Library - ScreenBar Modules _Some - there are more 3rd party ones

There are loads more MorphOS utility / program files here too:

MorphOS Storage - Recent Stuff - Thanks to WArMUp

There's also the Chrysalis CD/DVD ISO that you can download from here:

Chrysalis v3.9.2 ISO Disc to enhance MorphOS

[ Edited by NewSense 04.01.2017 - 19:50 ]

Ambient's version hasn't been upped in ages, so 1.44 is correct


- creating an icon:
Open "information" from context-menu, either press "create icon" or drop a PNG/other icon onto the default shown there.

-screenbar:
Right click on the depth gadget in the up-right corner of the screen, in the menu you can now select sveral modules including memory

- underscore:
If you mean something like "file_name" that should work, if you want to actually underscore a letter that won't.

Thank u all for ur suggestions, I will now try them all one by one.

The rename problem... no, it's actually the underscore character "_" which gets refused, i.e not typed ! And it's not a keymap issue,
cos anywhere else (shell, text editor...) I can type it, but not in the text gadged which opens up upon Rename from Ambient...
My suspect is that they deliberately set up this gadget to reject some charcters not allowed in filenames, resulting in a mess and
not quite the intended behaviour (just my guess).

Oh, I just found another Ambient bug, possibly... when u have a project icon (i.e a text associated with a program) often it doesn't work
the expected way... and this happens apparently on a random basis... when it doesn't work, ambient apparently tries to execute the
text file, issuing "can't start program [name of text file]"... very weird... I really hoped that Ambient was improved a bit since
the old MOS 1.x times but unfortunately it doesn't seem the case... I fear I shall really try out some other desktops...

Oh, just noticed this:

Quote:

...there is not any "create icon" button in the Information requester... very strange..

Does it happen when you boot from ISO/CD? Some weird keyb or kvm maybe? Sounds like something is borked quite much. Never had problems with project icons, even back in 1.4.5 times with nighly ambients.

Also, btw. inline rename in lister mode is fixed in 3.10. It didn't work correctly for quite some time.

Barren

With regard to Icons - I found it a bit weird when I started using MorphOS - BUT now it's usually quite simple to use PNG images as icons. The easiest way to create an Icon for a drawer is to find Icon - Information, where you will see underneath where the Icon is displayed the words "PNG Icon" or there will be no words underneath it, which means it is using a 'default icon'.

So, to create an Icon for it, you can then drag/drop another MorphOS (PNG) Icon (suffixed.info as with the Amiga Classic systems) onto where the icon is currently displayed that you want to change it to, and then SAVE.

If you cannot find an Icon you want to use I often go online to find a similar PNG image to indicate what I want the drawer to reflect, then just download that, and rename it to whatever name you want it to be, and add .info onto the end of the name, and save/confirm the name change. Sometimes I re-size the PNG image in Showgirls, and then copy it to RAM: where I create a drawer of the same name - without an Icon, and then the name I have saved my 'Icon.info' as then adopts itself automatically as the drawer image of the drawwer I have just created that did not have an Icon. If you do a "List" view of the contents of the folder that you are currently in then it will show you the name info changes.

If you only have a JPEG image that you want to use as an Icon, then you can convert it in Showgirls to a PNG image, and then use that.

I hope I have explained it as fully as you need to know, but even though I initially had issues with PNG Icons on MorphOS, I now find it far superior, though I do miss there not being an Icon Editor in the System tools/utilities.

So, that's the easiest way I've found to find to modify a PNG image to an icon.

Quote:
Have you checked your Ambient settings - Keyboard - Rename - to see which keys trigger the Rename requester - the use of it you should already know I would think.
Quote:
You have to remember that you are new to this change over, and so some things will not be so familiar to you, and this is probably where you are at - at this moment in time, but you will soon get used to the difference of MorphOS to Amiga OS or whatever.
Quote:
MorphOS is looking in the Icon file for the "Default Tool" if it's a Project Icon to start a program that was probably associated with it from an older system that no longer has that program in C: or wherever it was on that system, as you're now using MorphOS -new directories/new programs - so when it looks for the program it might not find it - and it is telling you so.

Often it is best to go into the Icon - Information, and change the Icon from a Project Icon, to a Tool Icon, and then the Mime Prefs of MorphOS will likely find what it needs to do to open that file. Don't forget you can change some of the Mime types yourself to allow MorphOS to handle more 'exotic' files that need a specific program to be its default rather than the system's initial setup once you have your MorphOS installed from the MorphOS Boot CD.
Quote:
If you have used an Amiga system and liked it, then MorphOS is a fantastic OS. I used to be an Amiga WB3.9 junkie, but now I am really struck with the similarities between Amiga OS, as I have learned to change that little bit, and it all works great for me, apart from the very few shortcoming with OWB, and a few very minor issues that we all get from time to time, so just keep at it, the learning curve is not that steep, and the benefits are far greater than any Mac OS or Windows OS that I have ever used, so I think you'll like it, you just need to learn to use it, and we're here if you need that support anyway.

Don't forget there is also the MorphOS Library - A Fantastic Resource for Guidance

Have a great New Year with MorphOS, and don't forget there is likely a new update in the 'wings' imminent we all believe, and that seems to have some fantastic new features, so watch this space, and don't go anywhere, or you'll regret it, I'm sure.

> you are new to this change over, and so some things will not be so familiar to you, [...]
> but you will soon get used to the difference of MorphOS to Amiga OS or whatever. [...]
> you're now using MorphOS -new directories/new programs [...]. [...] If you have used
> an Amiga system and liked it, then MorphOS is a fantastic OS. [...] just keep at it, the
> learning curve is not that steep, [...] I think you'll like it, you just need to learn to use it

As he says he comes from MorphOS 1.4.5, changes should not be so dramatic for him as they are for someone coming from AmigaOS.

@Barren

1.4.5!!!

Wow, the only ones I know of using that version is usually PowerUP users, since 1.4.5 is the latest version publicly released for that platform AFAIK...

Anyway, welcome back!



You will probably find Ambient quite mature today, and the only reason I see to use Dopus Magellan (and some people do) is if you really need working a lot with batches of files in various ways for some reason. For "normal" use (everything is relative though ) I'd say Ambient is more than enough as it is today.

Quote:

You can also click the icon image in the Icon Information window and you'll get a file requester. Then you can select about any image file (including JPEG) and it will be used as a icon and it gets converted to PNG icon automatically by Ambient.

Quote:

I wouldn't recommend to replace whole desktop, but I still use DOpus extensively next to Ambient. You can configure kind of "dual desktop" which offers best of both desktops on the same screen.

Here's a guide for that: http://library.morph.zone/How_to_Install_Directory_Opus_Magellan_II

(and DOpus is much more elegant and feature rich than Scalos)

[ Edited by jPV 05.01.2017 - 17:10 ]

Quote:

/me gets out of his DeLorean ;)

Ambient has improved massivly since MorphOS1.4 and the version you will find in 3.10 will again offer more than what is found in 3.9 despite Ambient's version number being stuck in in the last decade.....

Thank u all for ur kind feedback guys :)
I can't answer individually but I'm still trying, figuring out things, etc...

Ok, the underscore-rename issue seems gone now but, I hate saying that, seems a random event...

As for the defaul icon behaviour, yeah it's ok, I got it... just, I think it would have been more... rational ? for Ambient to just
create an icon on the fly if I Snapshot the default icon... as WB does in OS4 IIRC

I still have troubles with the files association but I will investigate further following ur directions, mime types, as u said, etc.

No really perhaps I was too brutal with criticizing Ambient... I'm useing it more now, exploring features, etc and I must state that everything
seems now very robust, and nicely customizable too. Not a crash yet... crossing my fingers LOL... even the USB support seems
flawless now... my card readers works great, Poseidon can even detect my Phone as either PTP or UMS and it gets listed in
MyMorphos without troubles... seems too good to be true :D I love the fact I can finally use the Gigabit ethernet too, and OWB seems
working great aswell, so far... But I have still to install stuff and complete my migration... it will be a long job :D

Anyway, it's a pity that Ambient support has been discontinued or whatever else... what if I find actual bugs ? I guess I will just lose
my time if I report them...

I also briefly investigated the Scalos option but seems a real mess... the installing script doesn't work, and I could not manage to install
it manually. Also, I read some opinions about it being quite unstable or having still many issues here and there. No I will stay with
Ambient definitely... just, I hope somebody is ready to fix bugs, in the event...

Well I will post further questions or doubts here though. Thank u for ur support

Then why is Ambient version number not raised? Having the same number for years is irritating. It should raise to see the progress more obvious.

Quote:
If you were to find a bug, which will probably take you some time, as most of them seem to have been addressed, AFAIK.

However, in the eventuality you do, then use the right 'menu' click and choose About MorphOS - Click on the 'Support' Tab, and you should see the button 'Report a Bug...' - which 'does what it says on the tin' - just follow the instructions/supply the information required.

Quote:
The thing is... the information window isn't only used to edit the icon. It's used to edit both the file's protection bits and its icon file. Two files.
If it would automatically create an icon file every time you change some protection bit, the problem would be reverted
I was the same for the wb, AFAIR.

If 3.10's Ambient comes with a specific button to create an icon, I believe this is a good solution for the two opposite use cases...

Ambient is under constant development (albeit slow), as to why the version number isn't raised.

Noone seemed to have cared over even noticed.......

Quote:

Some examples of MIME type configuration to get started:
http://library.morph.zone/Getting_Started#Setting_MPlayer_as_the_Default_Player_on_Ambient
http://library.morph.zone/Getting_Started#Setting_Jukebox_as_the_Default_Player_for_MP3_Files

>> Ambient [...] version you will find in 3.10 will again offer more than what is found
>> in 3.9 despite Ambient's version number being stuck in in the last decade.....

> it's a pity that Ambient support has been discontinued or whatever else...

That's not what Kronos wrote.

Well ok... anyway, concerning the issues I encountered with project file associations, MIME or not MIME I think THIS IS a bug and I will eventually report it... it took me some time to investigate though...

Let's assume I have created a project icon (actual, not default) for a project file (eg. a text file containing some data to be processed by a default tool consisting in a shell command called Test and placed in C: )Let's therefore assume I have set "Test" as default tool in the icon, and I have specified the tooltype "CLI" (WB-like launching works differently)

The command Test can't reach the project file, period. Here's why (I had to compile a simple program writing to the debug output to discover this) :

Under Amiga Workbench, the current directory seen by Test when it is launched is the project file full path, the first argument is the default tool (Test) file name only, second argument is Project file name only.

Under Ambient, the current directory seen by default tool (Test) when launched is the DEFAULT TOOL PATH (this is wrong IMHO !), and ok the first argument is the default tool full path+filename, and second argument Project file name only.

This way, the default tool has no data to reach the Project file, it can't know the path so it can't open it !

U may insist that Ambient is not the Amiga Workbench, ok, but I still insist that this behaviour is wrong IMHO... MIME or not MIME, if u want to associate a project to a default tool command operating in CLI mode, not WB mode (and if they didn't want to support this, why the CLI tooltype has been supported ?) you simply can't cos said default tool command can't reach the project file.

Just create a text file, create a solid project icon for it and put c:ed in the Default Tool and u can suddently verify that Ed will open an empy windows (of course).

I have still to check whether programs operating in WB mode can receive the right path and arguments to open the project file (I assume they can but must check).

---

Another couple bugs I think I found is with left-out (on Ambient screen) icons...

U can't snapshot the windows attributes of a directory whose drawer icon is left out. I tried. For them to be actually stored in the icon, I have to "put away" that icon, open it in the desired mode and size, snapshot window, leave it out again, and it works.

Also, u can't change the image of a left out icon... if u do (dragging a png icon image in the Information box) it gets apparently accepted but the new image is not updated. Once more, to change the image of a left out icon, I have to first put it away, change its image, then leave it out again.






[ Edited by ASiegel 06.01.2017 - 19:19 ]

Quote:
In fact, c:ed doesn't seem to handle wb args at all... So, it's better to test using another tool.

> c:ed doesn't seem to handle wb args at all...

Déjà vu :-)

Quote:

Why not making a freeze with version increasement on each MorphOS release if there is constant developing but no single big steps then?
Just for having non-ambiguous version numbers....

Usually version bumping is up to the developer of the related component.

With Ambient there are multiple developers involved adding new stuff or fixing bugs.

The new button Kronos leaked has some new features embedded not only for creating some default icon. Also new features like trashcan have been added. There are other small changes even I cannot remember or wont tell. :D

I agree that we had issues with version bumping in the past. We probably still have. Regarding Ambient. Same happend to ShowGirls and some other components. MorphOS ISOs are build automatically from scratch, so each new version of MorphOS automatically comes with the latest version of all included components. It is impossible some old component makes its way onto a new iso.

Many files have a dynamic date stamp in their version string indicating the compile date. So even if the version is constant the date is changing. Same goes for Ambient.