Is MorphOS using a kickstart like the old Amiga done. I saw several files regarding kickstart but tought it could be related to the 68k interpreter. Is really a kickstart loaded in ram???. Cool stuff indeed.

A kickstart? which files? MorphOS on PowerUp needs a kickstart, yes.

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No, it does not.

You could say that the boot.img contents is the equivalent of the Kickstart ROM contents.

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How do you get it booted initially without a kickstart?

Kickstart is just a part of AmigaOS. Since MorphOS is fully AmigaOS 3.x compatible, the equivalent libs that are inside AmigaOS 3.x kickstart are also part of MorphOS.
But of course these parts are no longer in a ROM chip located, but loaded from disk and are inside the boot.img file.
You can even access an early boot menu like on Amiga and manipulate the boot process once the boot.img is loaded.

SmartFirmware loads or boots certain kinds of files - usually kernel images or other files that have been specifically compiled to run from SmartFirmware. SmartFirmware is fairly sophisticated in its own way but typically, once an operating system kernel is in place, it's pushed aside until a reset or the next power-on.

> SmartFirmware loads or boots certain kinds of files -
> usually kernel images or other files that have been
> specifically compiled to run from SmartFirmware.
> SmartFirmware is fairly sophisticated in its own way

I think that's not bound to SmartFirmware. MorphOS also runs happily on hardware without SmartFirmware, e.g. PPC Macs, or PowerUP Amigas (in case of MorphOS 1.x).

I can't comment on Amiga + PowerUP systems but PPC Macs adopted OpenFirmware at some point in their development. OpenFirmware and SmartFirmware have a high degree of compatibility.

> PPC Macs adopted OpenFirmware at some point in their development.

Yes, PPC Macs use an OpenFirmware implementation that is *not* SmartFirmware. So even when ignoring Amiga PowerUP systems what you described regarding MorphOS can't be bound to SmartFirmware.

> OpenFirmware and SmartFirmware have a high degree of compatibility.

First and foremost OpenFirmware is a specification. PPC Mac's firmware is an implementation of that specification, while SmartFirmware is a different implementation of that same specification. Adhering to the same specification makes them highly compatible with each other, yes, but it doesn't make PPC Mac's firmware a SmartFirmware.

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7233&forum=3&post_id=74783#74783

> First and foremost OpenFirmware is a specification.

I think I knew that once but had forgotten... I don't actually know the specific name for a PPC Mac's firmware so was incorrectly referring to it as 'OpenFirmware'.

> what you described regarding MorphOS can't be bound to SmartFirmware.

ok then... Perhaps it would be more correct to say that a feature common to the SmartFirmware and PPC Mac firmware implementations of OpenFirmware allows an operating system, once loaded, to dispose of the firmware environment.

Now, after concentrating really hard, the point I may have been trying to make was that, while classic Amigas have a Kickstart ROM that continues to be of use after the operating system has loaded, MorphOS running on computers with implementations of OpenFirmware does not continue to use any functionality of the firmware.

> I don't actually know the specific name for a PPC Mac's
> firmware so was incorrectly referring to it as 'OpenFirmware'.

That was not my point. And in fact, it's fully legitimate to call the PPC Mac's firmware (as well as the SmartFirmware) an "OpenFirmware". I was merely objecting to you restricting your original statement to SmartFirmware.

> Perhaps it would be more correct to say that a feature common
> to the SmartFirmware and PPC Mac firmware implementations of
> OpenFirmware allows an operating system, once loaded, to dispose
> of the firmware environment.

Yes, and I'd even go as far as claiming this to be true for all OpenFirmware implementations there are because that's bound to the conception of the OpenFirmware specification itself.

> the point I may have been trying to make was that, while classic
> Amigas have a Kickstart ROM that continues to be of use after the
> operating system has loaded, MorphOS running on computers with
> implementations of OpenFirmware does not continue to use any
> functionality of the firmware.

Yes, that's because the contents of the Amiga Kickstart ROM is actually a part of AmigaOS itself, whereas no OpenFirmware implementation is part of MorphOS. MorphOS' functional equivalent of the Amiga Kickstart ROM's contents is the disk-based boot.img, as jacadcaps and Zylesea already pointed out before in this thread. The classic Amiga simply doesn't have an OpenFirmware layer equivalent.

Ah, ok, so the boot.img file contains the kickstart libraries of 3.1?
Thanks for the replies!!!

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Not exactly. The boot.img contains libraries of name and function of OS3.1 kickstart. But these libraries are a complete own development and exceed the 3.1 libs functionally by far. Also these libs are of course ppc native. But they happen to provide full 3.1 compability and hence a 3.1 program will not notice a difference whether running on MorphOS or OS3.1. MorphOS provides the same API and ABI as 3.1 does. But not as a special emulation layer, but as part of its own structure (which of course was designed to actualla keep 3.x compability).
But as an oversimplication boot.img "is" the kickstart of MorphOS.

> so the boot.img file contains the kickstart libraries of 3.1?

More precisely, it contains MorphOS native reimplementations of those files ;-)

Edit: Zylesea was faster ;-)

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf on 2010/11/7 17:38 ]

> MorphOS provides the same API and ABI as 3.1 does. But not as
> a special emulation layer, but as part of its own structure

I've been under the impression that AmigaOS 3.x ABI compatibility was part of the emulation layer only.