>>It's still lacking some basic stuff and is the most unstable Amiga compatible OS despite being available for the longest time

>I do not know what features you mean here.

Presumably he is talking about the fact that almost every feature that has been added to AmigaOS in the last 20 years or more is missing from AROS. This needs to be fixed if it is ever to be a serious AmigaOS replacement.

[ Edited by Minuous 15.08.2020 - 03:34 ]

@Connor

of course my main interest is 68k branch

That is where current most users are. Outside there are lots of options (including even free of charge). A difficult sell for a commercial but obscure OS like MorphOS. But we will see after ISA change..

@Andreas Wolf

Then promote it there between the old apple users. It might offer some potential

Quote:
You should also read the actual post too, because it doesn't fit fully to the title, which is also shortened as you can see from the "....".

Quote:
That's your opinion. The OP especially asked comparison/opinions between the mainstream operating systems too. And I tried to give valid opinions from my point of view. After all, I am using MorphOS as my daily computer instead of anything else and I feel entitled to express my opinions when asked.

Quote:
From my point of view, as a user and 3rd party developer, it certainly is a pro for MorphOS. When I code MUI programs according the documentation, they always work on MorphOS. But when I do the same for AROS/OS4/OS3, I always have to make work-arounds for bugs and non-implemented features even though they should support the same things. So at the current situation this is definitely pro for MorphOS and con for others. I have reported some found issues for OS3/4 MUI development branch and have got some of the issues fixed there too, but why should this be my job when I'm not even a daily user on those platforms.... and I know there are still things to be fixed on those unofficial branches and Zune, which causes their whole systems more unstable. Pro for MorphOS no matter how you would like to turn it around, because MUI is still used on all platforms.


[ Edited by jPV 14.08.2020 - 20:48 ]

> Then promote it there between the old apple users.

Unfortunately, I very much suck at promotion :-)

@ OlafSch

You often neglect that MorphOS is actually able to be a daily driver. Look, I can do most of the stuff I like to do on MorphOS. There are limitations on each system. And while on MorphOS limitations are primarily on some internet things or office stuff, I am better on managing my files.
Keeping control is way easier with MorphOS than with Windows or OS X. The price is a slower cpu and less applications. For me it's worth that. I, as some other users, actually use MorphOS productively as main system. I haven't heard of many AROS users who do the same. On OS4 there are quite a few, too.

But today probably noone is using one system 100%. I also use Android, Windows and - rarely - OS X. Depends on use case and environment - while not at home I mainly use Android these days, even I actually dislike it and most of the apps very much, but a 7" tablet or smartphone is way easier to carry in my bike hanle bar bag than a laptop...

Amiga Os 4.x nice os

pros:
- everything from 68k software worth of use works, albeit some software need some work with configuration
- hardware is many times faster so software from 68k that works is more usable than on 68k
- more software than Amiga Os 3.x - OWB, Apache, HollyWood
- OpenGL with shaders
- gdb
- has original mui
cons:
- not cheap

MOS ppc also nice os
pros:
- cheap hardware
- everything from 68k software worth of use works, albeit some software need some work with configuration
- hardware is many times faster so software from 68k that works is more usable than on 68k
- more software than Amiga Os 3.x - OWB, Apache, HollyWood
- has original mui
cons:
- no gdb - custom solution for debugging
- no decent OpenGL

Aros x86 and arm
pros:
- none
cons:
- it is unstable
- it is not compatible
- zune is not compatible even with last classic MUI 3.7 from 1997

Aros 68k
pros:
- with patches for original Amiga Os 3.x it can be made something usable
- original mui works
cons:
- slower than Amiga Os 3.x

Amiga Os 3.x
pros:
- history
- original mui works
cons:
- no decent OpenGL
- hardware is either very very slow or prices are pure bs

Main problem with 68k is hardware.
It is rare, it is fragile, it is expensive, it is not fast.
It is possible to get something that reach speed and comfort of cheap pc from windows 95 era
but price is usually almost double of Amiga X5000.
for example a4000 plus cyberstorm ppc plus g-rex plus voodoo.
cheaper solutions always lack something.
either mmu and 3D like vampire, either fast graphics.

> MOS ppc [...]
> more software than Amiga Os 3.x - [...] Apache, HollyWood

Apache and Hollywood also exist for OS3, and MorphOS doesn't even have newer versions of those AFAIK.

> MUI 3.7 from 1997

That would be MUI 3.8.

I won't say anything about OS4 because pretty much everything I'd say would be in the con side and I don't want to pollute this thread with perceived bashing.

MorphOS
Pros:
Can be used largely as a real life modern computer. Use OWB for a few days, then switch over to OSX 10.58 and try to use TenFourFox! It is truly stunning how god awful and slow it is even on a 2.7Ghz G5. My g5 with MorphOS is the "modern" computer in my retro workshop. Development is seemingly the best given it's size. We all know most of MorphOS' strong attributes.

Cons:
We still haven't migrated to x86-64. Apple Mac hardware is truly getting old at this point.

@redrumloa

We will see how successful the X86-64 Port will be

It is certainly a huge effort (expecially to integrate all sorts of transparent emulations and modernize everything) but I personally doubt if there is a real need for it outside of the morphos community. Additionally it will be relative costly (license fees for morphos and mostly needed new hardware whereas you today get the OS for free or at least very cheap and can use standard hardware you already have, only exception Apple of course).

[ Editiert durch OlafSch 18.08.2020 - 10:06 ]

@Zylesa

Certainly you can use MorphOS for daily use to some degree and for sure there are much more users using MorphOS daily than Aros users. There were almost nobody using Aros as a main system as far as I know.

But finally software today defines what you can do on a system and there (and additional driver support) is Windows unbeatable. Even Linux cannot compete there. MacOS only in certain specific fields. The broadest support has windows. You also find most informations for windows if you have a problem (f.e. something not working). That is for me much more important than the weaknesses windows certainly has. Think f.e. if your harddrive with important data not working anymore. On Windows you have still chances to save data, on morphos?

If you do not need up-to-date software and only use it for private purposes you can certainly live with morphos too.

@OS3 (and Aros 68k)

I wonder why noone mentions the huge software base as pro

It is by far the biggest of all amiganoid systems

@ppcamiga1

"- slower than Amiga Os 3.x"

that is one of the areas where it is worked on at the moment

Quote:
Because it's outdated in every aspect (remember, the question was about daily usage).

On MorphOS you may have smaller native program software base, but it's more up to date for today's requirements and more focused what's needed today. For example, web browsing, media players, image processing programs, all kinds of viewers (image, PDF, comics, etc), emulators, UTF-8 support with all kinds of programs, development tools (IDEs, compilers, etc), remote access and filesharing (RDesktop, SSH2/SSH2FS, 64bit supporting file sharing, SFTP, Synergy, etc), modern IMAP email, updated desktop and Intuition that renders many legacy programs obsolete, etc, etc.

It's just that the whole experience by OS and available applications is at a whole new level and closer to today's standards for daily usage. I just couldn't even consider stepping down to OS3 from this anymore, even if there would be enough raw power to run things faster. The whole ecosystem is that outdated now.

And the still usable software from OS3 runs fine on MorphOS too (like the best image and word processing programs from 68k), so I don't see this worth being a pro for OS3.

Quote:
Eh, fatal issues I've got during the years on Windows machines haven't been easily solved, and usually the suggestions you find on the web haven't been working. For example, my missing login prompt issue I mentioned earlier, has apparently been a relatively common problem with Windows 10, but still nobody seems to know what triggers it and how to fix it. There were dozen of suggestions which might have been working in some cases, but they didn't work for me and for many others either. Many times the only advice you get, and have to do finally, is to re-install the whole damn thing.

The pro with MorphOS is that you can ask help directly from the core developers who know every bit in the OS. They can even provide quick fixes/test binaries privately as we've seen many times. Filesystem issues have also been solved usually, and it's quite easy to make images of whole partitions/drives when trying to fix them. The existing tools can also usually fix the problems. I still haven't had to fix harddisks on MorphOS, but have had some easier or harder recovery projects on Amiga, and I've got them all fixed finally. There is quite much knowledge available when asked.

Quote:

You are belittleing MorphOS again. I use up to date software also on MorphOS and I use it privatly as well as for my job and business. But not exclusively. Pluralism is the key.
Look for example to the castrated UIs of Android apps - doing real work with it? Close to impossible IMHO. Managing files - well, there is total comander which is a great app, but still it is way more efficient to manage files on MorphOS. And try to use them w/o having google listen to everything what you do - not so easy (on ios devices the same, but with Apple in google's position).
And as far as that software availablility is the key factor. Only partially true. It's more the overall workflow. I do quite different things, but most stuff I can actually do on MorphOS. During the last months of course a video conference software (in particular Zoom) would have been great. Currently probably the most missed thing on MorphOS. But then again that's more an application Android is good for. I keep it pure and hence rather secure on the tablet.
Other, rather special purpose software I just under windows. Or I replace it with other applications or program a solution for my own. Depends on mood and need. The statistics for my last scientific work I actually did with Turbocalc and custom written statistic functions in Hollywood and a little help from a statistics website). Why? Because it was actually idiotic to let the big dog spss going on that hand full of scores. And to get myself a bit deeper into the used test methods. Just using the "industry standard" makes you boring. I see it enough - all the ppl who fire up spss (or #?) on little things and in particular doing just the learned ANOVA test (where other tests would be be better). Programming it yourself, makes you think about it. Just using Windows and spss instead would make my brain dry out.

In general I wouldn't call any OS better or worse in general. It's totally dependent on the individual use case. I my case MorphOS does most of the stuff best.

Quote:


good morning, I would include Aros and Eros to this list since they are AmigaOS but the focus is on another branch ...

It seems to me that MorphOS is by far the authentic AmigaOS NG but currently ApolloOS is creating without knowing it, the AmigaOS with the largest number of users since it is focused on its ARM Vampire FPGA and this will help to load it in Raspberries and similar more powerful boards like nvidia with powerful GPU ... I wanted to comment on an important detail that I think MorphOS should look at right now.

The best asset of MorphOS is its interface and robust operating system, but the problem is in how complex it is to match with end users, like me, who do not have hardware compatibility with mass user architecture.

iCaros and Eeros are on the right track but they are alone and with few resources, they have known how to use Linux applications and the AmigaOS environment with the possibility of using Linux UAE to load x86k (Eros, icaros does not do it well) and Commodore Vision created the exemplary distribution of the AmigaOS, it was a linux but the entire user interface was AmigaOS and it loaded x86k via Linux UAE.

MorphOS has the largest software development in PPC but could go further by focusing on ARM and x86 thanks to the approach of Commodore USA or Aeres.

It would be great to be able to have an AmigaOS with no Applications problems, to be able to load updated Blender and all current linux software natively.

> Eros [...] Eeros [...] Aeres

;-)

> I would include Aros and Eros to this list since they are AmigaOS

AEROS is AROS running on Linux.

> ApolloOS [...] is focused on its ARM Vampire FPGA

The Cyclone V E A5 (part number 5CEFA5F23C8N) used on the Vampire V4 does not have any ARM core.

> this will help to load it in Raspberries and similar more powerful boards

Even if the Vampire's FPGA had an ARM core (which it does not), this wouldn't help with running ApolloOS, which is m68k, on any ARM-based device.

> x86k

;-)

> Commodore Vision created the exemplary distribution of
> the AmigaOS, [...] the entire user interface was AmigaOS

That's some skewed statement for sure.

> MorphOS [...] could go further by focusing on ARM and x86
> thanks to the approach of Commodore USA or Aeres.

I don't think that CUSA's approach of creating a Linux distribution (Commodore Vision) is something the MorphOS team should follow. Btw, MorphOS for x86-64/AMD64 is already being developed, albeit with its own kernel, not using Linux underneath.

I can't think of major cons for any of those systems, except perhaps macOS, it's much worse than OS X, you have less control and it seems the idea of going with custom chips is to make it a walled garden like iOS. MorphOs is fantastic because it runs new software, has great SDK, runs legacy apps like native, etc. Windows - takes time to setup properly, certainly doesn't have any spyware (app insights is about gathering usability information), but otherwise it's boring. Linux - the sky's the limit, you can do anything on it and you can run it on a wristwatch or a space rocket. Amiga OS 4 - I have to say I've lost interest over 10 years ago so I can't comment (I did buy it, just never got around to installing it).

[ Edited by mac6six 22.02.2021 - 11:12 ]

I have added this to the post just to give you an insight that I hope many others will agree with and may be able to add more to it than myself - and it is a pro / con for another set of platforms not mentioned above, that is "home computers".

That is... any of the following and more: such as Amigas, Atari STs, Amstrad CPC, Commodore 64, ZX Spectrum, MSX. Take your pick.

If you want to learn about software or just tinker, you can do that on any of the platforms you have above - but the assumption is that you need to have some knowledge of those platforms which not everyone has. People these days are using computers like they use their cars - basically drive them and not know how they work. You can also use emulation to emulate the home computers.

The pros of home computers:

- I think the biggest which applies to all to a large degree - is their simplicity in comparison to current platforms, the ability to learn how your hardware and software works in almost every aspect. It is ideal for children to actually 'learn' something about computers rather than just 'drive' a computer.

- There is a certain experience that one gets from using a real home computer than that of a modern computer or emulation.

- A couple of new home computers are being released - although they aren't really mass produced as such - Spectrum Next, C65 and Commander X16 - I've ordered 2 of them so far.

The cons:

- If a person doesn't have any amount of 'geek' in them, they won't really care how a computer works and all they want to do is 'drive' them.

- Some of the home computers are getting really expensive.

As someone who learned from the 80s until now within. From my point of view, the Amiga is effectively the last mass produced home computer, and very sadly that is. I still use a range of home computers almost daily, the main ones being Amstrad 6128 Plus, Commodore 64 and Amiga 500 Plus.

Quote:

I added several ... And I rearranged them:

Ancient Operating System

Pros:

- Decades of Soft Wares available for it, including After Dark, and After Market Soft Wares. These Soft Wares ran circles around Microsoft Windows. Ancient Operating System also has an efficient, light weight interface, with focus on Performance, It uses very small amounts of disk space.

Cons:

- File Manager is practically unusable. It uses "Over write existing file?", and very bad Interface, there is no thumb nail preview to see images, Can not stream High Definition Video, Most Web Sites have boycotted Ancient Operating System 9.2.2, Unfortunately they do not make even After Market hard ware any more, the hardware is physically too small.

AmigaOS 3.x

Pros:

- I have not used it yet. However, I am interested in Vintage and Replica computers. They have been featured by Tech Moan.

Cons:

- It is not available on Laptops.

AmigaOS4

Pros:

- It is not Mac OS X.
- It is not MacOS.

Cons:

- It is not available on Laptops, not even original Commodore SX 64 and LCD Portable Computers.
- It has insufficient amount of Necessary Updates.
- It could have used the original Guru Meditations.

AROS

Pros:

- It is Open Source.
- It is available for many Computers.
- It is available for ARM Hardwares, which can increase both The Development,
- And The User Base.

Cons:

- Most of the versions of AROS are actually Linux.
- Development is much too slow.
- I really want to use it easily on Pi Devices. They are still take too much time to develop it.

Mac OS X / MacOS

Pros:

- Isn't It Nice To Have A Computer That Can Talk To You?

Cons:

- It is obsolete before you even install it.
- It need not be expensive.
- Unreasonable System Requirements.
- It is from Apple.
- Apple contributed to the Civilian Delinquency.
- I have not used it in very long time. I expected similar user experience as Ancient Operating System 9.2.2. Unfortunately, it was very slow, and choice between Genie Effect and Scale Effect, and no option to have Effects turned off.

MorphOS

Pros:

- Morph Developers are easy to contact.
- Morph Developers accept Donations for requests.
- Software Development Kit.
- Grunch.
- Every Official Web Site is flawless.
- Every Official Web Site does not coerce peoples to have Specific Stylish Browsers.
- The Internet Browsers have been focused on Browsing The Internet.
- The Internet Browsers have been focused on an option to avoid "Security" Errors.
- The Internet Browsers have been focused on no Cartoon Mascots. ... And very ugly Cartoon Mascots. They have One Eyed Sheets Of Papers, Cartoons With No Faces At All In The Slightest, They continue to be ugly be cause Beautiful ones are not allowed as they offend some groups of peoples. How ever, it has been long established that Microsoft Bob, Rover, Clippit, and Bonzi, have been nuisance. I loathe error messages to begin with. I need not see very bad Cartoons Dancing Around or even any Mascots instead of Correcting the Errors.
- The Internet Browsers, when ever they have any Errors, are in Plain Text.
- The Internet Browsers, when ever they have any Errors, are in Requesters, and not erase the page that you browsed in order to display the error message.
- Push Over is available.
- Space Cadet Pin Ball is available.
- Never Ball is available.
- Never Putt is available.
- Numerous emulators are available.
- Cinnamon Writer is available.

Cons:

- No Sleep Mode. Even Ancient Operating System has Sleep Mode. Sleep Mode is necessary to attract Users.
- No Hibernate Mode. Hibernate Mode is necessary to attract Users.
- 31 Bit Operating System. 64 Bit Operating System is necessary to attract Users.
- Supports only one Core.
- Memory Management can be improved. How ever, they instead prefer the Non Native Softwares instead of placing Non Native Softwares in an Emulator ... or even porting the Non Native Softwares.
- Grunch does not install Cinnamon Writer.
- Push Over interface is regressed.
- Never Ball is available.
- I really want to unlock the Impossible Level.
- Yes, Cinnamon Writer is available. How ever, Cinnamon Spread Sheet, Cinnamon Calculator, Cinnamon Slide Show, Cinnamon Publisher, Cinnamon Info Path, and Cinnamon Front Page, and others, are not available.
- The decision to port to X86 / AMD64 with out porting to ARM, which all the major Operating Systems support and have been for very long time.
- The dependence on Right Clicking, with many computers missing Right Click.
- The computers are physically small. Numeric Key Pad in Laptops is essential.
- The computers are physically small. Large 17.3+ Inch Display is essential.
- If the computers have Luminescence, they would attract many Users.
- Morph Developers manufactures the MorphOS, and not any computers. Users expect computers to have Operating System pre installed on their Hardwares. And they want their Computers to look Fancy. And Rugged such as Panasonic Tough Book. ... And easy to service, no difficult to change the batteries nor keyboards nor power buttons. Most Peoples search for "Computer" and purchase the first thing in Search Results, and expect it to have Operating System Pre - Installed, and use the Operating System, no matter what it is.
- Morph Developers do not seem to have embraced Pi Devices, which would increase both the development,
- And The User Base.
- Morph is not an actual company. It ought to be.

Linux (whatever flavor)

Pros:

- I have experience with Cent. It is adequate.

Cons:

- Too many Linux.
- They are unacceptable for Home Users.
- Also, Cent is discontinued.

REACT OS

Pros:

- An option for me to use various classic Softwares that Microsoft Windows no longer supports.

Cons:

- For MorphOS be cause I am going to use ReactOS as an alternative to Windows.

RISC OS

Pros:

- It is a breeze.
- It is available for ARM.
- It is available on Pi Devices, which attracts Development.
- And Users.

Cons:

- The same problem as MorphOS: There is no computer that contains a 17.3+ Inch Display, Numeric Keyboard, Easy To Service including but not limited to Battery and Keyboard and Power Button, rugged features of Panasonic Tough Book, and Luminescent. Most Peoples search for "Computer" and purchase the first thing in Search Results, and expect it to have Operating System Pre - Installed, and use the Operating System, no matter what it is.

Windows

Pros:

- Unlike Mac OS X and probably MacOS, they do not have any Genie Effects and Scale Effects.
- Unlike Mac OS X and probably MacOS, Windows can be adjusted for Best Performance. My settings reflect this. However, I enabled the Use Thumbnails For Icons.
- Windows 7 no longer Overwrites Existing. Instead, they put files from Source Folder to Destination Folder if said Folders have the same name.
- Windows 10 Search Menu is very convenient.
- Large amount of Softwares available.
- Large amount of Non Microsoft Softwares available. They help adjust Preferences to make Windows look as Vintage as possible.
- Large amount of Softwares, including Light Weight Softwares and Portable Softwares, to do any thing you need.
- Nostalgia. Vapor Memory made music Windows96 100 Mornings. There is also things about Windows that improved over the decades. They mostly caught up to Ancient Operating System. While not have the same functionality as After Dark, there are Open GL Screen Savers ... My favourite 3D Maze. Card Games, including Tri Peaks 2001. Also have Best Of Windows Entertainment Pack More Free Games. Around this era is when most Peoples began to use computers.

Cons:

- Yes, I got Screen Savers such as 3D Maze to function with Windows 10. However, I really doubt Windows 10 is going to have Games. They require an Emulator or even better an Update such as from G.O.G..
- These Screen Savers have been depreciated.
- These Games have been depreciated.
- It is Microsoft.
- Microsoft Contributed To Civilian Delinquency.
- Bill Gates Is Bill Gates.
- Melinda Gates Is Melinda Gates.
- Windows Update. By Any Means Necessary turn off this Virus. Yes, It is a Virus. If people want to spread a Viruses, Spywares, Ransomwares, which Windows Update qualifies all of them ... They will not brand it as such. They are not Skeletor, takeing pride in being Evil. Instead, they brand it as "Important", "Security" ... With Data Breach after Data Breach, it has been established that if some body wants it, they shall obtain it. They want peoples to update Windows Update, Web Browsers, so they brand it as "Important" and "Security". These Updates seem untested, making Windows very Unstable.
- On The Other Hand, Windows is well known for releasing Operating Systems prematurely. In Other Words, Windows itself has been unstable, requires updates that are not to be trusted.
- I am not going to install Windows 11.
- Unreasonable System Requirements.



[ Edited by In_Correct 27.11.2021 - 12:51 ]

> MorphOS
> Pros: [...] Never Ball is available.
> [...]
> Cons: [...] Never Ball is available.

;-)

> Morph Developers do not seem to have embraced Pi Devices

Current MorphOS may be portable to this planned device, provided its CPU can be put into 32-bit big-endian mode.

Correcting the wrong information: MorphOS has gdb. It's part of the MorphOS Software Development Kit