We have been spending most of our time lately supporting the LimePC release. The LimePC uses the Freescale 5121e SoC. The 5121e features a 200MHz co-processor (AXE engine) and the MBX Lite core for graphics. The CPU is a 400MHz e300 PowerPC. Hopefully, millions of LimePC units will be produced, but at this point the number is still less than 100,000.

Currently, our software development is focused on GNU Linux, but we seek more OS options. This is one reason we have decided to support AROS *and* MorphOS once both operating systems are released for the 5200B based EFIKA. We would be pleased to support OS4 too if legal situation was more clear. In any case, a stronger MorphOS community and a stronger AROS community can't be bad for OS4 or Amiga Application Developers and Users. A rising tide lifts all boats...

If you have some thoughts on how we might best restore Amiga-like OS environments to the mass market, please do not hesitate to post the information here or send us an email. Thanks!

Best regards,
R&B

well, imo, the most important is easy to use stuff. so there shouldn't be anything editable in the OF console. there should be some simple script, that would boot automatically (from a provided usb flash?) including the OF setup made to do it for the first time... like apples' 'unpack, turn on, and work' (or so). OF is for advanced users only. this should be quite simple with efika and it's OF 1.3. or ofcourse, provide a graphical interface for the OF, that would automatically look for bootable devices...

this should, imo, be the first step...

bye, MarK.

What you need is to give the avarage user an easy to use OS alternativ to Windows.
Mac is to expensive and Linux is not user friendly enough.

But with MOS you have a light, fast and easy too use system.
MOS only lacks some Software to be atractive enough for the avarage user that only needs the PC for the Internet,
Office, and some Audio/Video stuff.
They also want a quiet system that didn't need to be installed from scratch every half year.
Show the people what MOS and Efika means. "It is fast, easy to use and quiet."

On the other hand you need Developers, how do you get them?
Give them some good tools(IDE) they allready knew from other Systems and good Docs and tutorials about how to code for MOS/Aros.

Make a video that really shows difference between Windows, MacOSX and MorphOS/AROS/AmigaOS4? A video that can show the power of AmigaOS Enviroment systems. I would love to do it, but with just crappy mobile camera. Maybe someone else would?

And what about a DVD that shows step by step how to setup the Efika and connect it to the peripheral devices and how to install MOS/Aros and the internet connection on the Efika under MOS/Aros. This DVD you could give away with every Efika you will sell.

Put the Efika into a small and stylish case like the Asus EEE desktop pc (or Nintendo Wee), bundle it with MOS 2.0 and sell it to similar markets like Asus does with the eee.
MOS 2.0 on the Efika is good enough for a lot of things and gives the impression of blazing fast speed. Efika with MOS *feels* much faster than the Asus eee.
Of course one of the things why the Eee scores, is the balanced bundle of software.
For the market of higher power devices (8610) I still see it like outlined in some mails some time ago.

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And that's the best news ever, even if we already knew. Through these years, Genesi has struggled to find a market for its knowledge. Perhaps this time is for real...

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How come that Matt "Neko" Sealey has said that this CPU wasn't ready for production, and now you say that 100000 units have been sold? Where?

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Yes: Do exactly the same you did with the Pegasos some years ago. You did it right, you did it before, you know how to do it best. Lots of money needed, though...

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 04.08.2011 - 15:36 ]

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"*Which* mass market" is a relevant question. MorphOS lacks things like multi user support, which limits its chances in products that needs secure handling on user identity and file ownership/protection in file systems, for instance a traditional desktop market. On the other hand, the LimePC isn't exactly desktop hardware either. It's a one device, one user deal. Pretty much like ipod's (and other media players) and PDA's. And speaking of ipods, that's exactly what I see when looking at the "PalmPC":

limepc_m1.jpg

And PDA is the little bigger "HandheldPC". And then we have the UMPC with HDD and all. So the most obvious areas of use is of course the traditional areas of use for these types of devices; to play music, play videos, personal organizer, web surfing, email, gaming, etc.

And streaming media of course. Have you looked at ORB? That's a *great* thing! Always access to your media files wherever you are. You store a movie on your home PC (or on your Genesi 8610-based media center of course ) and you can watch the same movie on your cell phone, your PDA, your NG games console, or on a media center *at your friends* home! Heck, install a TV-card in your PC and you can watch this from everywhere as well! Buy a pay-per-view sports event and share it among your friends, who can watch it in their living room, their PDA's or cell phones while commuting from work, or whatever. ORB is a great thing, and works perfectly!

Now when MorphOS is about to reach a level which is "more complete" as an OS (in a sense, MorphOS 2.0 is IMHO what an 1.0 release could have been), maybe the next phase is to start thinking about what the OS could be used for? A commercial purpose? And steer development accordingly?

I look at MorphOS as a potential "Media OS". It's extremely lean and has low overhead which makes it ideal for these kind of devices. But it also lacks a lot of things to be suitable for these kind of devices listed above.

You seem to be involved with new force in the LimePC deal (I guess this is why you hardly ever are to bee seen online during the last few months, other than short blog posts to show that you are still breathing ). I don't know to what degree these assumptions are true and correct, but for the sake of the discussion in this thread (to know something about the preconditions), you sound like you are about to have some serious cash stream coming in again - does this mean that you are prepared to support MorphOS development *financially* again, in a *serious* way (unlike chipping up a little something for a bounty here and there) that includes hiring people, paying contractors, purchasing licenses, etc? Is that it?

If so, to answer your initial question "how we might best restore Amiga-like OS environments to the mass market", I'd say you'd better start fill in the gaps! Here are *some*, quite basic ones:

The OS must of course have a full blown Bluetooth implementation. As well as WiFi (with "WiFi catcher tools" and all). This involves some licensing I suppose.

The GUI (MUI, applications, and perhaps Ambient, if that is even needed or wanted at all on these kind of devices) should be flexible and scalable between various low resolution screen modes up to full desktop size. It would be cool if one and the same MorphOS application could be run on normal desktop size screens, but also "auto sense" and adapt to a 5.61" (1024x600) screen of the UMPC, a 4.0" (272x480) screen of the HandheldPC, and a 2.86" (240x400) screen of the PalmPC, and still have a fully readable and usable GUI. This will require more than simply changing the resolution, it will require adaption, with different layout of the GUI objects according to the screen profiles, and contents presented in different ways accordingly. I think this should involve a development of some official GUI policy/guide from the MorphOS team.

The GUI must support touch screen. Could perhaps be achieved via mouse simulation. Perhaps some intelligent "proximity" function is needed on top of this; unlike when using a mouse on a desktop system, where you easily can click on any object and accurately hit it down to a pixel level, this is not the case when using some "pen" to poke on a 2.86" screen while sitting on a bus on a bumpy road. This may also affect the layout of GUI objects, and be considered in the GUI layout policy/guide.

The GUI should include a standard functionality for entering text by other means than a keyboard, like opening up an on-screen keyboard with keys you can press on from the touch screen, or a handwriting translation tool that we see on several PDA's. This can probably be licensed quick and easy. Devices like this is of course optional, and supported by the full-blown Bluetooth implementation.

Reggae is a great thing. But it will need codecs, lot's of them. Some of them will involve some licensing I suppose.

Web browser is important. Sputnik looks promising. But if you are truly involved in a "millions of units" LimePC deal, you probably have enough money to license the Opera browser. It's very portable, it's developed with these kind of devices in mind, and has a very nice zoom function that can be usable here.

Java and Flash/Shockwave are essential in Internet (or "mobile gaming") contexts. Previously tightly closed, but both seems to be opened up a great deal recently. Maybe they still need to be licensed though, and under any circumstances you should sponsor the porting work financially so to make it finalized during our lifetime.

That was some *basics* from the top of my head, I'm sure there are a lot more than this needed to be added to the OS. And when the basics is in place there will of course be a need for the relevant applications. Some are here already, some needs adaption, some needs development. Third party developers can contribute here, and probably will if the OS are running on tangible devices, the "basics" is in place, and a true commercial future on a mass market *is truly within sight*.

Regarding the LimePC prototypes we have seen, one thing I really miss (especially on the "HandheldPC" and "UMPC") is some simple control buttons on the case as a complement to the touch screen, for instance one four-way directional button, one "Yes"/Enter button and one "No"/Cancel button. Or some wheel at the side which some media players have, that you can turn to choose stuff, and press to select.

I also miss (especially on the UMPC, which seems to have more room for it than the others) a full size USB jack, for general use of course, but particularly for USB Memory Sticks (that are getting really big and useful now, have seen sizes up to 34 GB!).

[ Edited by takemehomegrandma on 2008/5/16 12:50 ]

Good points grandma!

A MorphOS based media center/STB/PVR (preferably with multiple tuners, or at least that as an *option*) is also high on my wish list. It should be modular/reconfigurable between the broadcast standards and encryption standards used throughout the world.

This would require a much more powerful CPU, or complementing hardware. Enough power to decode/encode (or *recode* for "ORB"-style applications) all important codecs in use today in Full HDTV (1080p) is a must. Full UPnP and DLNA support, client and server. Full (and licensed) DVD support and Reggae support for every single important media format, Media center software, TV tuner software with EPG, OSD, Teletext, you name it. Would also need support for IR remote controls, preferably on an OS level.

I feel the only thing Takemehomegranma missed is a good print driver like CUP. Easy to use with many new drivers.

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And most important of all, you need momentum and wide support from the current community. You will have much to gain from that IMHO. You need developers and power users. And in the context of this - nobody will develop applications on a "Lime PalmPC", you will have to re-introduce some Pegasos class hardware, a desktop motherboard with expansion slots and all, based on the 8610 or the 8641D (or 8640D - got any info on that one BTW?).

Back in the days there was a vivid community around MorphOS, but during the years of void and silence this has almost died. You need to restart it, pump up the enthusiasm, get the momentum going again. Aside from releasing a new desktop class hardware with modern standards (SATA-2, USB2, PCI-e, whatever), I believe this will involve showing some financial muscles IMHO, accompanied with a commercial vision for MorphOS and a realistic plan to achieve it.

Question is - Are you up for that?

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Imagination Technologies, the company that "makes" the PowerVR inside the MPC5121 also has technologies for video encoding and even demodulating all those fancy digital radio signals that make possible DVB-T, DVB-H, T-DMB, DAB-IP, 1-seg ISDB-T, DAB, DAB+, and FM with RDS.
In all, this is a company worth having contact with. I'm sure it's only natural to have it, if the LimePC product line (remember, from a tiny desktop, through several handhelds, to a full 42" TV) gets good momentum.

Your turn, BBRV. And I'm also concerned like grandma, where are you lately? There's been a noticeable drop in communication from you. I hope it's all due to a huge world domination plan being developed...

The question was "How to support Amiga-like environments more ?"

I can only think of 1 answer as MorphOS (and the other Amiga-like OS) has such low requirements:

You seem to be the only (potential) supplier of future hardware for such systems. While Efika is shaping up to be really great, it's not exactly high powered computing is it ?

Please add dual GeekPorts so I can add a quad-Cell processor card and super high speed graphics adaptor.

Have you seen MicroWulf ? http://www.calvin.edu/~adams/research/microwulf/

I would love to have something similar made from future Efikas. It doesn't have to be competitive speed or price, just possible. I guess the $64m question would be "Can OpenMPI be ported to MorphOS ?"

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I think it's a bit sad trying to relive something you let almost to extinguish. I feel a bit deceived with MorphOS situation, having invested a nice sum of money of a system wich lacks decent software.
With that reputation, it's hard to believe there's people dreaming of an 8610 to play with Linux...

Amiga OS Like environments are FARRRRRR Away from mass market OSes (Windows,Linux) if we talk of features and available quantity of software. In no Linux distribution you have to pay for USB stack, Bluetooth,e.g.

Talking of LimePC, seems a pretty nice gadget, but remember one important thing, hardware with no good and prolific software doest not worth the trouble.

Takemehomegrandma point of view seems very nice
and realistic too.

@diezi7

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I see your point and also understands it, although I (perhaps unlike you?) also understands and *accepts* the historical and unfortunate reasons behind this! I still hope for a solution!

At least MorphOS 2.0 is about to be released (which is a *major* thing)!

Maybe the point of this thread is to investigate any suggestions on how they can make it "bounce up" again? At least I hope so...

And more, I hope there may be some *financial muscle power to do so* as well. Discussions are kind of moot otherwise, hence my question above...

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Windows in a mass market context = Primarily Desktop market.
Linux in a mass market context = Primarily Server market.

An essential question (from a *mass market* POV) is whether MorphOS qualifies (and can *compete* on a commercial level) on *any* of these markets?

Please note that this is on a *mass market level*, it shouldn't affect how MorphOS is being used on a "hobby OS" basis...

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Of course, the thread's intention seems to be in that direction, but it's something hilarant that the mother company doesn't know the feelings of Amiga enthusiasts, all os us being a bunch a believers during so many years. I'd like to use a machine which would let me to do everything I want without putting no one
of my fingers on win.... :)

Genesi brought up this great Pegasos platform, that's a fact, but then let it slide down (never promoted expansion CPU cards as suggested at first), I was very interested in having a 1,7Ghz 7448 CPU i.e
On the Linux side, Pegasos is rather well supported from my point of view.

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Personally I think it's not up to the task nowadays to have a decent position on mass market, neither desktop
nor server terms, and more important, I think the financial resources are too big to make it forseable
in the future.

I hope it happens, and morphOs positions on any mass market, hard to believe.

Morphos2.0 however, maybe does not have so much noveltys as it's supposed. We still lack No Java, Flash, Office Suite, no multiuser support.

So, back to the topic, I don't believe MorphOS could position itself on any mass market so I will try not to dream for free. ;-D

Good points Grandma.

Well here is my opinion in a few lines:

Whatever type of hardware you are about to produce should be packed with an OS that would be end-user friendly supporting in high standrads all the basic features that will bring a simple user infront of his computer screen: internet, media, office and home applications.
All the hardware power is a total big waste without the software.
MorphOS is the key point and it is the Amiga oriented OS that attracts people from the Amiga community. It could attract a non power user as well that wants something light, smooth and fats for home and office, but not on its current status.
Do you want your new hardware -letting it be LimePC, Efika, Peg3 or whatever- to become commercial? Enforce it with a powerfull MorphOS and present to the masses what software and hardware can do. Like Apple did years before with Macs.

Want an example?
I may wate some time to download libraries and Arexx support, put em into the correct MorphOS folders etc to make TubeXX works because there is no browser capable to run YouTube.
My 17 year old sister would still stick on her laptop running Windows and would just type the name of her favorite group to watch on YouTube... And there are million like her.

Your hardware and of course MorphOS are still the tools of an "elite", that finds the alternative computting attractive.
Keep that side of the coin without taking away the power users who want to have them everything on their fignertips but make your products more "massive".

And please someone bring a f.....g browser to MorphOS...


[ Edited by CountRaven on 2008/5/18 10:20 ]

"And please someone bring a f.....g browser to MorphOS..." - there is sputnik, count! it works, usable and quite fast. (browser =/ java+flash)
:)

hey no bad feellings or negative critisism about Sput, that was not my point, if there was not Sput I would not be able to make this post. Sput is the great result of a single person's effort, it is stable and useful but it is not enough. And please do not put me in the list of persons that "keeps on aksing for more and more without giving anything to the community and blah blah". Here we are bring on front a theory that wants MorphOS to be bigger udner new massive selling hardware. In this case a port of Opera or FireFox would do the trick or perhaps a gathering of more devleopers arround Sput to make it be THE browser. Please note that I recognise all the big effort arround Sput so far and I currently do not use any other browser as I got no PC. My main point is that there is a big "push" needed if we want to go on "massive" mode and Sputnik was just an example.

Hello,

I think java is a good point for application development. I'm waiting an ide like eclipse and java supporting, with that things, i'll made some usefull stuff !

A java developper in stand by mode....

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Oh I forgot, probably the best solution to make AmigaOS style environments more widespread would be to migrate to X86 processors. Cheap, fast, and widespread hardware base. ;-D

yeah right and 1 billion drivers to support...