Quote:

Leo,
all this means is that now is not time to comment. Ralph is merely being professional here, do you not understand that?

BBRV confirms this, stating that Ralph is attempting to resolve the situation on the behalf of MorphOS and therfore Genesi.

Well Since Genesi has been showing off
the features of MorphOS 1.5 at SNDF Europe, it seems that they must have at
least 1.5 (beta?) code in their hands.

http://www.ppcnux.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4208

Maybe this is what the developers want paying for - work done and handed over
before they continue development?

Regards

Niteman1969



[ Edited by niteman1969 on 2004/11/21 23:47 ]

Quote:

I don't remember ever seeing a new version of Ambient or Voyager to be shown at those shows.

Quote:

CNN is not a good source for information, though. They basically just repeat what politicians say, and they are not skeptical or critical at all. GNN is much better.

I got a laugh out of Ralph's comment, though. That's okay if he chooses not to tell us anything right now, because I know there is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. But I hope someone tells us something soon, like "we fixed this, and this is how we'll deliver MOS 1.5."

@JKD:
"We're attempting to resolve the situation on the behalf of MorphOS and therfore Genesi."

THAT would have been professional... But maybe that's too much to ask.

Leo.

[ Edited by Leo on 2004/11/21 21:06 ]

Sounds to me like a lot of people were looking for a free handout and when they were asked to show the results they had nothing to give. Give up the CVS logs so we can get this over with please. Its a simple request and its how things are done. Now the behind the scenes stuff can stay private. That is the right of the coders ans Genesi. We as users dont have the right to know the inner working of the company. We are not stock holders you know!

morphos.net has been updated:

"2004-11-21: Genesi is making statements on web forums implying those above amounts contain "idle time". This is untrue. Only actual work is charged"

...

Leo.

I fear we will never see an end to this. Its starting to look like a bunch of school kids fighting now.

Quote:

"Starting to look"???

It has been kidz play for a long time now and there seems to be no ending to this.

Quote:

Me neither. I have heard reports about new nifty features in MUI though, but nothing has been said about a new nifty Ambient. So where are the improvements? What are they?

Is there something to be paid for? If so what? They could sell the upcoming 1.5 if it was a "needed upgrade" by rounding out the OS better, like TCP, firewire drivers, more video drivers or better printing et.....

But if this keeps up the OS will scare off new customers and will die.

No one will get paid then for sure. . . .

Quote:
http://zapek.com/software/ambient/

Quote:

Status
The version currently included in MorphOS 1.4 is 1.29. Development is currently suspended.

Heh...

Quote:

LOL! He has started the debate of the century, but does not participate himself. He just stand beside, lobbing in some longballs every now and then from outside of the arena, just to fuel the discussions, just keeping the fire in the community burning from a safe distance. He is shooting at the entire MorphOS community with artillery from a long distance, instead of discussing the issue himself. This makes me sick!



Anyway. He speaks a lot about "true" and "untrue", but I think everyone should remember that he is only one of the parts in this dispute, he is *not at all* independent but instead *highly involved* and subjective, and his words reflects *his* position and nothing else; his position *as a stakeholder* in this, remember that! Obviously, his "truth" is not the only one around, and truths could/should be proven right or wrong pretty simple!

Well, he should have no problems then in putting forward the work he is trying to charge license fees from, and perhaps Genesi will license it for a future version of MorphOS, who knows?

But should they really do that? What is *your* opinion on that people? Here are the three most negative things I can say about MorphOS 1.4:

1. Its lack of an included, native TCP/IP stack.
2. The poor state of Ambient; looking good but isn't really good at all in functionality. Even plain old Workbench is better.
3. The lack of OS support for the Pegasos onboard peripherals like firewire, floppy drive, gigabit ehternets.

And if David won't agree to re-join the team and continue develop Ambient in the future, won't it become a dead end then? Wouldn't Genesi be better off to temporarily use the same old (limited by nature) Ambient v1.29 in MorphOS 1.5 too while developing another, much better alternative for "MorphOS 1.6"?

Ambient in it's current form wouldn't be a loss at all IMHO, as long as someone could come up with something at least as "bad", but hopefully better. If the Ambient author isn't able to put forward to Genesi/MorphOS team (*proving* he has not been idle, not just posting a statement on a webpage) a version of Ambient that at least beats the crap out of Workbench but preferably even some file handlers like DOpus, and is comparable to some other desktops on other OS's in some aspects, as well as an agreement to develop it even further, then I would say: DROP IT!

I am sick of this, and I am sorry to say but I am also sick of David's behaviour here. Of course I understand his point of view, he wants money and he believes that he has work to deliver that is worth his claims. But why should that be any of my business? I am just a plain MorphOS user in this community. Why should I have to care about that? This is not the way of handling things, it should be in private. This is only counter productive. For everyone. I would so much like it to stop now!

Quote:

What is "not some OS4.0 thing"? Do you means that OS4 is "BAD" and MorphOS is "GOOD". Maybe for you, but that statement is a thing and the reality is another thing.

@ volm

I know that page. But it's only a featurelist, it may not reflect the real development status one bit (I rather see it as an "ambition" list than a feature list). In fact, this text about the status of Ambient ...

Quote:

... suggests that the development actually was suspended after the 1.29 release (included with MorphOS 1.4, but lacking most of the listed features), which has been fully paid for AFAIK. I don't know, but this sounds pretty "idle" to me!

Obviously, Stefan Stuntz has showed the work he has done on MUI since then, and BBRV say they might actually reach a deal for licensing that work. But public communications from BBRV suggests that the current status of *Ambient* is a lot more uncertain, at least they have not seen any of the progress(?) that David claims to have produced during any "un-idle" moments, which makes it quite difficult to evaluate the effort in money, right?

@takemehomegrandma

ok I'll explain it in a more clear way

*the feature list is the feature that the current internal ambient HAS
YET.
*current public release is 1.29
*at the time of writing of this page development is suspended.

Hope it is more clear for everyone.

Quote:

MorphOS and Hyperions OS are both quite interesting projects IMHO. In my personal opinion, MorphOS are miles ahead on many "core" things, while lagging behind on some components at the Application Level, like TCP/IP and a few utilities that Hyperion ships. If you browse the history of this site you will find that no-one is dissing neither Hyperion nor their OS. The people at this site has simply chosen MorphOS over OS4! Personally I have choosen both, but obviously most of us feel that MorphOS is better. May it be because of its design, it's speed, it's functionality, it's completeness, I don't know. However, that doesn't make OS4 bad, but it simply is not MorphOS, and I guess that "azalin" above (as well as many other people at this site, including myself) is more or less uninterested in OS4 ...

Quote:

You say "not some OS4.0 thing" and now say "MorphOS and Hyperions OS are both quite interesting projects" and "Personally I have choosen both"????? I respect you opinion but I think if you see the OS4 development time, his advances and the more and more programs that are out there, the and you "analize" maybe the opinion can be differnt. I hope that MOS development continue, but with somebody like bbrv I think that the future looks black for MOS :(.

Hello Amigan:

----------------------------------
... but with somebody like bbrv I think that the future looks black for MOS :(
----------------------------------

Can you explain this text little more in detail, please ?

Thanks !

Gunne


[ Edited by gunne on 2004/11/22 12:20 ]

Quote:

The latest snapshot of MorphOS has been demonstrated by members of the MorphOS team on various occasions during the spring and summer this year. I have not visited any of those myself, but I have read all the reports (I think), and I can't recall reading anything about some of those things listed on that page! MUI is another thing though; I have seen reports of progress there, but none for Ambient? So I must ask you, have you seen these features with *your own* eyes, or tried them hands-on?

For example:

Quote:

and

Quote:

Note, I am *not* arguing here, just asking for some clarification! Has anyone tried these features themselves on a show or similar? It would be interesting to know if I have (shock, horror) ... *missed* something!

I dont know what you think... but zapek was elected as
a core developer, he managed servers and
websites wrote ambient and is part of
vapor.com a supporter of the first hour.

If I have to chose between bb and zapek who to trust
my choice is zapek.

Just a little reminder what else might be missing in 1.5 without zapek :

http://zapek.com/software/amitcp/

Quote:

Yes without problem, For example: I has business man, contract a programer to do the job. Then I pay him because that work, because the contract with him. What I do later with that job is my problem (If get it sold or not), NOT THE PROGRAMMER PROBLEM. I must to pay him because his work for me, not by units sold. It´s easy and simple, pure laws.

@ Amigan

Use whatever OS you like the best, Windows, BeOS, MacOS or OS4 or whatever, I don't care. Not the least!

About BBRV, we have everything to thank them for. Everyone (you too), for everything! Without them, there would not have been any Pegasos1 no Pegasos2, no MorphOS development up to v1.4. BBRV re-vitalized the whole market! Many Amiga dealers have stayed on this market thanks to the life-injection from the Pegasos and MorphOS, as well as users and developers. Developers even got sponsored in various ways, even by hardware completely for free. As a result, lots of new software has been developed and/or ported. A superbundle concept has been launched. Lots of projects has been started on a computer platform that most people considered stone dead ten years ago already. Genesi and the Pegasos with MorphOS visited many Amiga shows around the whole world, and even NON-Amiga shows, which has drawn some attention from outside the small Amiga market as well. Ann.lu and Amiga.org was sponsored for a long time, and that money, plus the fact that users continued to hang around because of the interesting Pegasos and MorphOS developments, has helped these sites to stay alive. This of course goes for morphos-news.de too. Morphzone.org as well as ppczone would not exist at all. BBRV paid for it all, and without them the entire Amiga land would have been pretty dead two-three years ago. This whole community, even those who later turned around 180 degrees to kick at them and throw shit, has so much to thank BBRV for.

Keep that in mind the next time you are about to open up that little cookie-hole in your face!

Amigan:

Hmm, I cant understand the relevance with what you wrote first. I therefore would like to say - no relevance at all - to what you wrote first.

If you can explain better (or deeper), please do.

Thank You !

Gunne