@ VelcroSP

I agree mostly to all you say. It would be great to see MOs on those
LimeOS devices.
*BUT* those devices are not ready yet. But the Efika is. It was and
is avaiable. Also MOS 2.0 finally became close to be fiished. Isn't it
better to just complete the obvious, namely release MOS 2.0 as soon as
possible for the devices available until today (i.e. Pegasos and
Efika)? Once MOS 2.0 is rolled out, the dices can be rolled again, but
first finish *this* lap.

In the middle time line I would also love to see MOS on more devices -
and on devices that are a bit more end user appealing than the Efika
is. But step by step.

The step we are curently within is lasting way too long, thus finish
this step ASAP and *then* do the next move.

You're welcome Velcro_SP.

Yes, it is true that MorphOS 2.0 should come out first. This way Pegasos & Efika1 owners can use it.

After that, the focus can switch to supporting LimePC devices & Efika2 ( & even Mac Mini ). Because THTF is going after the mass market and will attract more users compared to Genesi who can only get a smaller ( niche ) market.

The LimePC products can sell hundreds of thousands or millions providing MorphOS a large opportunity to become adopted by many. Which is the best news I've heard in awhile. But we can't get ahead of ourselves here like was said by Zylesea.

No one else is making PPC hardware on a mass scale now that Apple switched to x86. That is why LimePC is exciting.

Interesting read from the comments in a recent post in BBRV's blog:

Quote:

So, this looks like a talk between Genesi and an IBM employee that is also upset about PowerPC being left behind. Well, actually, he or she is not upset: Agrees with switching to another CPU architecture.

BBRV replies saying that the 8610 SOC is cool, and sure it is. But what if it ends up sharing "technical challenges" with the 5121e? A chip that looks great on paper, and when it comes out lacks hardware cache coherency...

As if I knew what it is Can anyone here explain? I guess one can use a CPU even if it doesn't have this feature, but what are the compromises?

Anyway, does it sound like a good idea to lock your company to another's company not products, but promises? Isn't any decent silicon out there to make real, decent products, instead of waiting months for samples, and then realize they don't work as advertised? This is crazy, because is the same hole as the Articia fiasco, five years ago!

There's also an interesting read in thispost from BBRV in Power Developer.

[ Edited by jcmarcos on 2008/1/18 11:07 ]

8610 is based off the e600 core & close to design of the ( essentially same as ) MPC744x & MPC864x, according to Freescale Fact Sheet. Pegasos G4 uses MPC7447 so MorphOS shouldn't have trouble working on this CPU.

The biggest thing against PowerPC CPUs is price. That is why this architecture is dying out. To illustrate this, I'll briefly compare the 8610 & 5200.

The best things ( in terms of performance ) about the 8610 is that it brings a higher speed of 1333 MHz, Altivec, 4 Integer Units & 256KB L2 Cache.

5200B in comparison does not have Altivec, max speed of 400 MHz, 1 Integer Unit & no L2 Cache.

MPC5200B ( Efika1 processor ) sells for just under $20 wholesale.

MPC8610 will sell for $176 wholesale from Freescale and processor availability happens in mid 2008. Wholesale prices obtained from Freescale site.

Notice the big price difference!

The problem is the processor cost for PowerPC. If Genesi does use the 8610 in their upcoming board, after Efika2, then I can only imagine what their boards will end up costing.

The fault lies with IBM & Freescale for not having more competitive pricing to x86 processors. I can go to the computer store & buy Athlon 64 X2 4000 EE for $70 retail. So, it makes me wonder why PowerPC CPUs are not coming down in price.

At least Genesi made a smart move by producing Efika which allowed people to get a lower end system to play with MorphOS. Efika2 ( & LimePC ) will have somewhat better specs than Efika1. So, will be cool to see what happens with them. And let's not forget the Mac Mini too.

Omen:
There is a big reason why PowerPC CPUs are so costly. It's
all about simple business economics.

Intel and AMD manufacture products for consumers (end-users).
They have to be cheap to even sell their CPUs to consumers.

Freescale and IBM couldn't care less about consumers. They
sell to companies. It's pure B2B. I know this, since I run a
company myself. I wouldn't even dream of selling computer-
parts to consumers, as I wouldn't make a dime from it.

However, selling B2B with a nice support-package generates
alot more income.

It's not only about volumes, since Freescale sells millions of
low-power PowerPC CPUs.

Apple did sell PowerPC CPUs to consumers, yes. But the Apple
market was merely a few percent for both Freescale and IBM,
so it wasn't worth much. They didn't care.

Freescale live happily on the car industry and IBM on their x86
servers. Yes, see the latest report from IBM. The iSeries is a big
failure and they make their money on x86, not POWER.

Oh.. One more thing. Windows Vista doesn't run on PowerPC.

Yes Ironfist. I realize the PowerPC business is all about B2B, but that is no excuse to sell for / charge excessively high prices.

$176 wholesale price for a single core 1.33Ghz PPC CPU w/256KB cache is too much. How can another company use it in a product and make money off of it? The high pricing of the CPUs is why PPC will stay a small market & never expand and allows x86 & ARM to dominate the world.

It is no wonder that Apple decided to switch over to x86 with Intel Macs - because of cost. It surprised me at first to hear this news but seems to have been a good move for Apple.

I realize that IBM & Freescale only care mainly in selling to automotive and embedded market. And have little interest in the desktop market. The only thing keeping PowerPC alive on the desktop is MorphOS, AmigaOS & those still using OS X on PPC computers. Otherwise, PPC would have disappeared from desktop / workstation by now since IBM & Freescale don't seem to care about being in the desktop market and in offering competitive pricing to x86. The only PPC CPUs well priced are the lower end models, ie: 5200B, 5121e,....

I know it won't happen but I'd like to see some affordable dual core PPC processors.

Just to note, x86 runs more than Windows. It does Linux, BSD, BeOS/Haiku, Syllable, SkyOS, Solaris, OS X ( on Intel Macs ), AROS, etc., etc.

People only buy PowerPC hardware these days to run MorphOS. Amiga still hasn't come out with hadware for AmigaOS. Apple has moved over to x86. So, who would buy PowerPC hardware without MorphOS, AmigaOS & OS X? Efika1 & Efika2 are smart moves by Genesi because it allows a low cost way to get onto MorphOS which sells / attracts more users. 8610 goes after higher end and will get fewer people buying these boards / systems.