Powermac supported devices
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    @Pega-1

    Great stuff, thanks for all the info Frank.
    Didn't realise that one of the PATA Connections was EIDE (ATA 3) though - I can't find any documentation on it at all (Apple only seems to like mentioning the 'marketable' features).

    Best Regards



    Rich

    [ Edited by boot_wb on 2010/8/26 0:38 ]
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  • »25.08.10 - 22:04
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    AmigaDave

    Thanks for the reminder about the PATA buses - I'd totally forgotten to ask about them. :-)
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  • »25.08.10 - 22:06
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:


    g4QS_redux wrote:
    [..] can we also look forward to run MorphOS on Power Mac G4 (PCI Graphics) computers (Apple?s codename: Yikes!), though they do not offer an AGP graphics slot?

    Certainly the Powe rMac (PCI Graphics) has a 66MHz PCI slot dedicated for the graphics card. Don't know if "Yikes!" is the same one or not..

    Quote:

    Several Power Macintosh G4 machines older than the Quicksilver series also have got 4 RAM slots and, using Mac OS X, a maximum of 2 GB RAM was supported by the hardware. Yet, I guess that 2 GB of memory will probably not be supported on those computers if you run MorphOS, as these limitations also apply to MDD machines.

    However, regardless of the number of DIMM slots, only the DDR-equipped models (MDD, FW800) support >1.5GB memory (if Apple docs are accurate in this regard).

    [ Edited by boot_wb on 2010/8/26 0:17 ]

    [ Edited by boot_wb on 2010/8/26 0:21 ]
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  • »25.08.10 - 22:17
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11707 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    @ pega-1:

    I appreciate your information but there's really no need to tell *me* things I know already and even explained to others here in this thread :-) (see threaded view in case you don't know what I mean)
  • »25.08.10 - 22:19
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:



    However, regardless of the number of DIMM slots, only the DDR-equipped models (MDD, FW800) support >1.5GB memory (if Apple docs are accurate in this regard).




    I have talked to owners of older Powermacs like the Digital Audio that have all four memory slots equipped with 512MB PC100 or PC133 memory for a total of 2Gigs.
    Apple also claims that their older models only support up to 128GB hard drives, but PPC Linux will partition and format larger drives on these models (my Quicksilver 160GB drive is fully utilized that way with an OSX partition and a Linux partition).

    Edit - I thought I'd mention one qualifier about 512MB SDRAM strips. While DDR memory in Powermacs is fairly standard, SDR 512MB strips must be low density. If you're going to try to outfit an older Powermac with 512MB memory strips, make sure they're Apple compatible (most aren't).
    On the other hand, most 256MB strips will work.

    [ Edited by Jim on 2010/8/26 0:53 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »25.08.10 - 22:42
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    g4QS_redux
    Posts: 9 from 2010/8/25
    From: Germany
    @jacadcaps:
    > Don't count on support for anything older than PowerMac3,1

    Well, I don't expect the MorphOS team to actively support all sorts of hardware, for I understand that only a limited number of people work on MorphOS. Yet, I personally think it would be great if the MorphOS Installation CD will not block per se specific G4 processors / PowerMac models / mainboards any longer in future releases. I guess that some former Amiga users (and I am one of them) just want to give MorphOS a try on their hardware, even if they will have to solve some problems with machines not _officially_ supported by the developers of the operating system; maybe also with the help of fellows in the forums.

    As I have already owned two PowerMac G4 computers for several years, I was actually a bit disappointed at that time that both of them were not supported in previous releases of MorphOS, for I neither own a PowerMac Mini nor an eMac.

    If you put your plans of supporting almost all Power Mac G4 desktop models into practice in a new release of MorphOS 2.6, however, users will have numerous options to choose from, and that is what I am looking forward to. After I have read many of the MorphOS related news in the past weeks I am quite optimistic at the moment that I will soon be able to install and test MorphOS on one of my PPC computers. :-)

    @boot_wb, Jim:
    To get a quick overview on Macintosh computers, their specifications, and codenames I frequently use the following website:

    http://www.apple-history.com/?page=gallery&model=g4pci&sort=date&performa=off&order=ASC

    It seems that people here, however, prefer to use the Model IDs of Macintosh computers:

    http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_capability/mac-specs-by-machine-model-machine-id.html

    There is also a terrific freeware tool, though this is only available for Mac OS and Windows operating systems:

    http://www.mactracker.ca/

    I did not try this myself, but according to apple-history.com non-PCI based pre-Quicksilver Desktop Powermacs G4 feature 4 RAM slots and they offer a maximum of 2 GB usable RAM (4 x 512 MB).
  • »25.08.10 - 23:11
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    @g4QS_redux

    Thanks for the links & info, I've added them to the summary.
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  • »26.08.10 - 00:51
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11707 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I personally think it would be great if the MorphOS Installation CD will not block per se
    > specific G4 processors / PowerMac models / mainboards any longer in future releases.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7310&forum=11#75811

    I don't know if these limitations are still valid though.
  • »26.08.10 - 01:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    Pega1

    Thanks a lot for the status report! Very exciting. How are 3d drivers for Radeon r300 range (powermacs and powerbooks) looking?
    Pegasos 2 Rev 2B3 w/ Freescale 7447 "G4" @ 1ghz / 1gb Nanya Ram
    Quad Boot: MorphOS 2.7 | Amiga OS4.1 U4 | Ubuntu PPC GNU/Linux | OS X 10.4
  • »26.08.10 - 01:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2793 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    I believe I have read, in more than one place, that MacOS9 only supports 1.5gb RAM, but in my 1.25GHz Dual G4 PowerMac MDD (no FW800) model, it recognizes 1.99gb of my installed 2gb RAM. My G4 came with a dual boot of MacOS9.2.2 & MacOSX10.2.6 on the same partition (which I did not know was possible, I thought 2 partitions were required for dual booting). Maybe it cannot access all 2gb of RAM, but MacOS9.2.2 shows it in the about this Mac menu item.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »26.08.10 - 05:07
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  • Just looking around
    g4QS_redux
    Posts: 9 from 2010/8/25
    From: Germany
    @Andreas_Wolf:
    >> I personally think it would be great if the MorphOS Installation
    >> CD will not block per se specific G4 processors / PowerMac models /
    >> mainboards any longer in future releases.

    > https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7310&forum=11#75811

    > I don't know if these limitations are still valid though.


    I guess I just have to wait for the next MorphOS release. Maybe I will be able to run this system on either my Quicksilver G4/800, or on my G4/350 AGP. Anyway, I expect that I would have to test MorphOS extensively, for I do not expect that everything will run out-of-the box right from the beginning. I intend to keep on using these hardware systems in future times, however, so I appreciate that MorphOS is being ported to these computers.

    The only thing I upgraded besides memory and bigger HDDs was the graphics card, for I got an ATI Radeon 9200. I think I could use it in both machines, but at the moment I use it in the G4/350 AGP. Yet, I already checked whether the graphics card was compatible with MorphOS before I bought it last year.

    Usually I run MacOS 9.2.2, Mac OS X 10.4.11, and Debian Lenny on my G4 PowerMacs. Of course I could use LeopardAssist

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/leopardassist/

    to install Mac OS X 10.5 on my 4th generation PowerMacs, but it would just be too slow. Hopefully I will not have to use similar tricks just to fool the MorphOS 2.6 installation CD... ;-)

    As Apple already dropped support for Mac OS 10.4 "Tiger" regarding Security Updates, I assume that this will also happen to Mac OS 10.5 when the next Mac OS X release is out, for that is the usual policy of the Apple company. Then it is likely that even PowerMac G5 users running Mac OS X 10.5 will be left in the lurch. Thus, MorphOS is (apart from a couple of Linux and BSD distros for PPC machines, which are also getting fewer) a way out of this dilemma for people who still want to use their old PowerPC G4 hardware.

    And I still hope that it will also be possible to install MorphOS on PowerMac G4 (PCI) computers and PowerMac G3 b/w with G4 upgrades, but I will try this out myself as soon as MophOS 2.6 is out for I do not expect you to actively support these machines.


    @amigadave:
    > I believe I have read, in more than one place, that MacOS9 only
    > supports 1.5gb RAM,

    Yes, I remember that several Macintosh magazines and websites, including e.g.

    http://www.apple-history.nl/g4agp.html

    provide(d) Macintosh users with this information.

    > but in my 1.25GHz Dual G4 PowerMac MDD (no FW800) model, it
    > recognizes 1.99gb of my installed 2gb RAM. [..] Maybe it cannot
    > access all 2gb of RAM, but MacOS9.2.2 shows it in the about
    > this Mac menu item.

    I cannot check this myself at the moment, for I only use an amount of 384 MB RAM in my G4/350(AGP), and my Quciksilver has only got 3 RAM slots, i.e. in this computer there is a maximum of 1.5GB memory, anyway. Yet, I found a Macintosh user who tried to fix some problems with his G4 MDD here (German speaking forum, sorry):

    http://www.macuser.de/forum/f6/os9-boot-cd-534261/

    Finally he provided readers with a snapshot of his Mac OS 9 screen here:

    http://www.macuser.de/forum/f6/os9-boot-cd-534261/index6.html#post6212726

    http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs063.snc4/34492_414130509524_780099524_4369341_7262728_n.jpg

    I think this proves that at least the fastest G4 Macs capable of running Mac OS 9, the MDD ones, recognize 2GB of RAM if you use this operating system. I remember, however, that even slower G4 Macs could use the full 2 GB at least if you use Mac OS X, for this information was frequently spread in the media at times when Mac OS X was still a fairly new operating system.

    If you own proprietary productivity software for Mac OS 9 which uses a lot of RAM, e.g. Adobe's Photoshop or Apple's FCP, you might want to check yourself if your G4 MDD can access all 2GB of RAM by running a number of these programs at the same time. "About this Macintosh" provides you with information on memory consumption. Maybe you would also like to experiment with the "Virtual Memory" control panel, in addition (and _restart_). Probably "Virtual Memory" will still be limited to a maximum of 1GB(?), even if 2GB of physical RAM is installed.


    > My G4 came with a dual boot of MacOS9.2.2 & MacOSX10.2.6 on
    > the same partition (which I did not know was possible, I thought
    > 2 partitions were required for dual booting).

    Yes, that is possible, if both system folders were "blessed" (that is what a sort of activation is often called) the way they should be by the operating systems' installers. If you want to, you can, of course, use different partitions. Just remember to always install Mac OS 9 drivers if you add a new hard disk drive to your system to install Mac OS X _before_ you actually start the Mac OS X installation tool. To do this, either use Drive Setup in an already "natively" booted Mac OS 9 or activate Mac OS 9 drivers in the Mac OS X hard disk tool before the partitioning process, though I am not sure if this option ist still offered in Leopard. Thus, you might have to use 10.3 or 10.4 installation discs. It is, however, crucial to install Mac OS 9 drivers if you want to access HFS(+) partitions created by Mac OS X using "natively" booted Mac OS 9.2 systems, and hard disk support for Mac OS 9 cannot be added later.

    I wonder, however, how MorphOS can later be added to set up a computer system with three or four (MorphOS, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X, Linux) operating systems. Well, hopefully it can be integrated into a boot loader like yaboot, but I will try to find out all the details about this once MorphOS 2.6 will be released for a variety of PowerMac G4 desktop "towers".

    [ Edited by g4QS_redux on 2010/8/26 12:57 ]
  • »26.08.10 - 09:39
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:


    g4QS_redux wrote:
    I wonder, however, how MorphOS can later be added to set up a computer system with three or four (MorphOS, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X, Linux) operating systems. Well, hopefully it can be integrated into a boot loader like yaboot, but I will try to find out all the details about this once MorphOS 2.6 will be released for a variety of PowerMac G4 desktop "towers".

    [ Edited by g4QS_redux on 2010/8/26 12:57 ]


    Guide for configuring yaboot for multi-boot (rough & ready, but works):

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7319&forum=9
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  • »26.08.10 - 12:02
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  • Just looking around
    g4QS_redux
    Posts: 9 from 2010/8/25
    From: Germany
    @boot_wb:
    > Guide for configuring yaboot for multi-boot (rough & ready, but works):
    > https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7319&forum=9

    Wow, that?s an excellent guide on using advanced functions of the yaboot boot loader and I got it bookmarked in my web browser. Thanks a lot!

    I wish I had found something similar when I installed triple-boot on my G4 Quicksilver several years ago (Mac OS 9, Mac OS X, YDL).


    > apple-history
    > Everymac
    > Mac HW database tool(Windows/MacOS)

    Just one more thing: Maybe it?s better if you change the apple-history link in your initial posting to http://www.apple-history.com/ or http://www.apple-history.nl/ to avoid that someone will buy the model it refers to by mistake - unless he knows what he is doing, of course.

    I guess both web sites, http://www.apple-history.com/ and http://www.apple-history.nl/ are basically the same. Currently your reference in the first posting is linked to the Power Macintosh G4 (PCI Graphics), a model which, according to MorphOS developer jacadcaps, might not be supported, for it is a PowerMac 1,2, i.e. it is older than PowerMac 3,1. That is why interested users will most likely run into trouble if they try to install MorphOS on it, or the installation could turn out to be more difficult.

    I mean, personally I?d love to see PowerMac G4 (PCI) (and also similar PowerMac G3 b/w) boards supported by MorphOS. If I wanted to buy a used PowerMac nowadays to run MorphOS on it, however, I?d definitely go for a slower AGP version, for they will probably cost, more or less, the same amount of money as PCI based PowerMacs G4 and they support more RAM; less than 40 Euros at the German ebay market incl. shipping will probably suffice. And to enjoy sound support right from the start and for people who need more speed, a faster PowerMac G4 would be a better option, if I understand the developers? postings correctly. Though these machines will also cost more money, of course.

    [ Edited by g4QS_redux on 2010/8/26 16:27 ]
  • »26.08.10 - 13:23
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    Golem
    Posts: 766 from 2003/2/28
    From: Denmark
    Quote:


    g4QS_redux wrote:
    Currently your reference in the first posting is linked to the Power Macintosh G4 (PCI Graphics), a model which, according to MorphOS developer jacadcaps, might not be supported, for it is a PowerMac 1,2, i.e. it is older than PowerMac 3,1.


    I did not see a "might" in his post, I don't know what you imagine users could do about that.
  • »26.08.10 - 16:18
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    @g4QS_redux

    Thanks for pointing that out - I've changed the link to just he mac-history homepage.

    I've also reworked it a bit to make it clearer that only AGP mdels are supported (and included a section on 'grey areas').

    Glad you found the yaboot info useful, I'll try and tidy it up at some point.
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  • »26.08.10 - 17:18
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Divinity
    Posts: 498 from 2009/9/8
    @pega-1

    -PowerMac FW800 dual G4@1420, 2gb ram ddr ... ready :)
    -ATI 9000pro, ATI 9250 flashed, ATI 9200 flashed, ATI9800 XT/Pro flashed, ready :)
    -Yaboot for MorphOS, Linux, OSX, ready :)
    - money to buy the KEY of MoprhOS 2.6 ready :)
    - MorphOS 2.6 when ? :) :) :)


    <Afaik only the MDD/FW800 model allows "upgrading" to 2.0 but this is not really supported for MorphOS yet.>
    I did not know this ... via Update of the firmware ? (infos online about this ?)


    [ Edited by Divinity on 2010/8/26 19:58 ]
  • »26.08.10 - 17:56
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2714 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    @g4QS_redux

    The amount of HW differences between all models is really big. Let me repeat: there are NO PLANS to support PowerMacs other than the ones already mentioned by Frank (that is: 3,1-3,6).
  • »26.08.10 - 19:22
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:


    jacadcaps wrote:
    @g4QS_redux

    The amount of HW differences between all models is really big. Let me repeat: there are NO PLANS to support PowerMacs other than the ones already mentioned by Frank (that is: 3,1-3,6).


    As someone who put together a Quicksilver out of used parts and some things I had lying around (for well under $100), I'm cool with that.

    Essentially all AGP G4 Powermacs! Why ask for more than that?

    Oh, and to repeat, USB2.0? NEC PCI USB card! Already works on the Peg! Available for about $5! Works under OSX too!

    Please! Stop asking these guys for more! I just want to see what they say we're getting released!


    [ Edited by Jim on 2010/8/26 21:44 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.08.10 - 19:38
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Divinity
    Posts: 498 from 2009/9/8
    Quote:


    jacadcaps wrote:
    @g4QS_redux

    The amount of HW differences between all models is really big. Let me repeat: there are NO PLANS to support PowerMacs other than the ones already mentioned by Frank (that is: 3,1-3,6).


    :-) probably someone has no idea what is support SEVEN ! different models of PowerMac G4, I think :-)

    fantastic MorphOS team :-) ready to buy now the KEY :-)

    [ Edited by Divinity on 2010/8/26 21:52 ]
  • »26.08.10 - 19:50
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:


    Divinity wrote:

    :-) probably someone has no idea what is support SEVEN ! different models of PowerMac G4, I think :-)

    fantastic MorphOS team :-) ready to buy now the KEY :-)

    [ Edited by Divinity on 2010/8/26 21:52 ]


    Yes! Seconded! Had the money set aside months ago (when I re-flashed the 9250)! Will run around spouting "I've got the KEY!" like Timothy Leary when you release it!
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.08.10 - 20:42
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    It's Eight if you count the QS, QS (2002), MDD, MDD (2003) separately :-)

    Just reworked the summary (hopefully for the last time) after realising that the Model Descriptor (eg PowerMac3,x) seems to be the best way of describing the hardware (rather than the various other numbers Apple uses inconsistently).
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  • »26.08.10 - 20:58
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Divinity
    Posts: 498 from 2009/9/8
    Quote:


    boot_wb wrote:
    It's Eight if you count the QS, QS (2002), MDD, MDD (2003) separately :-).


    Nine, not eight so :-) :
    PowerMac AGP Graphics
    PowerMac AGP Gigabit Ethernet
    PowerMac AGP Digital Audio
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver 2002
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver 2002ED
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver MDD
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver FW800
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver MDD 2003
  • »26.08.10 - 21:45
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    wonea
    Posts: 7 from 2003/2/24
    Very pleased to see my Mac sitting in that list! Thanks. Wondering whether a Geforce 4 TI would work? Got an Echo Mia sound card, but that's pretty exotic.

    Just realised I joined this site back in 2003 and have only made 7 posts, probably most of them as to why don't you support PowerMac's :-)

    [ Edited by wonea on 2010/8/27 17:21 ]
  • »27.08.10 - 15:17
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    Kronos
    Posts: 2099 from 2003/2/24
    NVidia is a complete nogo, only Radeons are supported (not really true, but the other cards aren't a real option either).

    You'll need a Radeon7000-9250 (re)flashed with a Mac-BIOS, some of the bigger Radeons might also work, but only in 2D.
  • »27.08.10 - 15:51
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    analogkid
    Posts: 626 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    I'm also really looking forward to the Powermac support in the upcoming 2.6 release and I really appreciate the efforts to make it also run on older Powermacs 3,1 - 3,3 , MorphOS is the perfect OS for the slow 7400 G4, and I hope you can manage to get it running on that early G4.

    Anyway, is it true that there won't be onboard sound support for Powermac 3,1 - 3,3 ? Well, it won't be a big issue for the users, because you can use a PCI SBLive.

    [ Edited by analogkid on 2010/8/30 10:21 ]
  • »30.08.10 - 08:20
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