A-EON
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2708 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    MarK wrote:
    well, but AmigaOS already had this... remember PowerUp cards? there was 68k as a main cpu, and PowerPC was used from the beginning as just some kind of coprocessor, to make some computations faster. with a small list of new exec.library functions (like LaunchOnOtherCpuAsync(function,args)) would be enough for simple SMP :)

    but these are really just my ideas as I know, how cpu 68k and ppc works, then i don't see this as a big issue.

    bye, MarK.



    In SMP you usually have all applications as well as the OS itself distributed more or less evenly and executed across all the available cores/CPU resources according to some scheduling policy. The entire environment, including the data, living as one. Having 100% of the OS and 99% of the applications running in a box on one CPU core, practically unaware of anything outside the box, while some individual program gets to execute some code on some other core, is not SMP, that's more like having a co-processor. Compare it to like having the OS and all applications running on a single CPU, and then you execute certain code in the GPU of a graphics card. Sure, you may get a speed benefit for certain computing tasks, but it's not what people expect to get when you claim the OS is "SMP enabled".
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »05.01.10 - 00:15
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metalmac
    Posts: 87 from 2007/5/26
    So it is out:

    AmigaOne X1000 Specs

    * ATX Formfactor
    * Dual-core PowerISA? v2.04+ CPU
    * "Xena" XMOS XS1-L1 128 SDS
    * 7.1 channel HD audio
    * 4x DDR2 RAM slots
    * 10x USB 2.0
    * 1x Gigabit Ethernet
    * 2x PCIe x16 slots ( 1x16 or 2x8 )
    * 2x PCIe x1 slots
    * 1x Xorro slot
    * 2x PCI legacy slots
    * 2x RS232
    * 4x SATA 2 connectors
    * 1x IDE connector
    * JTAG connector
    * 1x Compact Flash

    Xena:
    Capable of eight concurrent real-time threads with shared memory space, at up to 400 MIPS (about 6 68060s worth), Xena gives the X1000 a very flexible, very expandable co-processor.
    http://www.xmos.com/

    Xorro:
    To accompany 'Xena', we have 'Xorro', a new slot using an industry-standard PCIe x8 form factor to give access to the 'Xena' IO.
    This will be the route to Xena's 64 IO lines, which are dynamically configurable as input, output, or bidirectional.
    Reference boards have been made with up to 256 cores, offering a theoretical 102400 MIPS.
    PowerBook G4@1.5Ghz, 1Gb ram, MorphOS 3.12
    Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1220/4@28Mhz, 500Mb HD, 6mb RAM, Workbench 3.1
    AspireOne, 1Gb RAM, 160Gb HD, Icaros Desktop
    AmigaOne 500, 2Gb ram, AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
  • »05.01.10 - 13:00
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    CountRaven
    Posts: 563 from 2007/12/11
    From: Greece
    Would love to see MorphOS running in such a machine. Why not make a try?
  • »05.01.10 - 15:11
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1326 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @ CountRaven

    pega-1 mentioned a reason why he would not be involved in any such port.

    Plus, there is the obvious problem that you cannot 'try' to port to something that does not even exist as a consumer-ready product. We are literally talking about hot air at this point as far as consumers are concerned.

    Source: http://morphos-team.net/faq.html

    Quote:

    Q: Somebody announced plans to release new PowerPC hardware. Will you port MorphOS to it?
    A: The MorphOS development team cannot port MorphOS to hardware that does not exist. Furthermore, the developers do not make plans based on planned products. A product must exist and be for sale to be even considered for a port.

    We strongly urge you to not buy or otherwise finance any hardware for the purpose of running MorphOS until you have read an announcement on this website that clearly states MorphOS will support it.
  • »05.01.10 - 15:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2708 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    CountRaven wrote:
    Would love to see MorphOS running in such a machine. Why not make a try?



    This would probably make better sense: http://tinyurl.com/ybtasbx

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »05.01.10 - 15:45
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  • SMF
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    SMF
    Posts: 36 from 2004/3/2
    Looks like a good machine, would be nice to be able to continue dualboot os4/mos when my peg2's are retired and hopefully sold after buying this machine
  • »05.01.10 - 17:54
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 11 from 2008/9/24
    @pega-1

    Thank you for your clear and consise answer. This is the kind of expectation management that it's good to be the receiving end of. It's respectfull and informative. Very good.

    @all
    re: hot air / vapour
    It seems to be a loose loose situation being a business in Amiga land. If you are silent, you will be attacked for ignoring your would-not-be customers right to know. If you announce you're full of s**t and vapour ware. It's sad, and it means that to be in the Amiga business takes an extra cost on those involved.

    The idea that MOS and AOS most likely won't be dualbooting on a highend PPC machine any time soon doesn't substract from my love from either of the systems. I'll still be a happy user of MOS and enjoy my MOS system still.
  • »05.01.10 - 18:45
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  • Moderator
    Golem
    Posts: 766 from 2003/2/28
    From: Denmark
    @arnljot

    Well... there's still some information missing here, so for now I will consider it a preannouncement, not quite a real product yet.
  • »05.01.10 - 19:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2708 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    SMF wrote:
    Looks like a good machine, would be nice to be able to continue dualboot os4/mos when my peg2's are retired and hopefully sold after buying this machine

    Quote:


    arnljot wrote:
    The idea that MOS and AOS most likely won't be dualbooting on a highend PPC machine any time soon doesn't substract from my love from either of the systems.


    Want high end? Ask Hyperion to port OS4 to the Mac Mini then. Or PowerMac if you want it more expandable and (for some reason) dual core. Faster, and most certainly ahelluvalot cheaper.

    The CPU in this new "A1" is Power ISA 2.04. I don't know if Wikipedia's info about this is correct and complete, but they only list *two* cores compliant with this ISA:

    1) Titan from AMCC (the first model "APM 83290" (dual core) began sampling in October 2009)
    2) PA6T (the first and last of the "PWRficient") from P.A. Semi

    http://tinyurl.com/yz5r6bm

    The first is a dual core, has the clock frequency and wattage that match, but can it really provide all that PCI-E bandwidth? And is it really that "high end" after all? Seems like it compares to available Freescale e500 ("G3") PowerQUICC III CPU's, which is also the processors AMCC has identified as the main competitors, according to some article I read. But it will obviously come in more versions later on, a single core and a quad core as well, and it was said on "a-eon" web page that the motherboard "will come with a variety of CPUs", so...

    The second is also dual core, has the clock frequency and wattage that match, it can provide the PCI-e bandwidth. But PA Semi doesn't exist anymore, and no new chips are coming. So much for "a variety of CPUs"...

    My bet is on the Titan (provided it can handle the PCI-E bandwidth, of which I am totally clueless). Looks like a cool chip in many ways, but not really sexy, at least not compared to the Macs out there...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »05.01.10 - 19:51
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Krashan
    Posts: 1107 from 2003/6/11
    From: Białystok...
    Xena:
    Capable of eight concurrent real-time threads with shared memory space, at up to 400 MIPS


    So Xena has 400 MIPS. AltiVec unit in Pegasos 2 G4 processor has 16 000 MIPS. In contrast to Xena it can be programmed with the same compiler as main CPU core. I prefer to have AltiVec onboard instead of this useless piece of silicon. If it turns out, that the main CPU of X1000 has no AltiVec, well, it would be pathetic.
  • »05.01.10 - 20:12
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Samurai_Crow
    Posts: 137 from 2009/12/10
    From: Minnesota, USA
    Quote:


    Krashan wrote:

    So Xena has 400 MIPS. AltiVec unit in Pegasos 2 G4 processor has 16 000 MIPS. In contrast to Xena it can be programmed with the same compiler as main CPU core. I prefer to have AltiVec onboard instead of this useless piece of silicon. If it turns out, that the main CPU of X1000 has no AltiVec, well, it would be pathetic.


    Xena's just the I/O coprocessor. The main CPU is currently a dual-core PPC clocked at 1.8 GHz.

    As for being programmable with the same compiler, it certainly is. That is if they make an AmigaOS 4 backend for LLVM (low-level virtual machine) since XCore already has a backend for LLVM. If you want, you can make a MorphOS backend for LLVM and save me the trouble since I want to make an LLVM-based compiler for all Amiga systems (including x86 and x64 AROS). See source at the XMOS source code web page.
  • »06.01.10 - 00:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The CPU in this new "A1" is Power ISA 2.04. I don't know if Wikipedia's info about this is
    > correct and complete, but they only list *two* cores compliant with this ISA:
    >
    > 1) Titan from AMCC (the first model "APM 83290" (dual core) began sampling in
    > October 2009)
    > 2) PA6T (the first and last of the "PWRficient") from P.A. Semi

    These two CPUs are the ones that were added to Power ISA with 2.04. According to your Wikipedia link, each Power ISA revision includes the former ones. So that means 2.04 and before. As A-EON state "v2.04+" (note the "+"), that includes 2.05 and 2.06 as well. In summary, "Power ISA v2.04+" means the same as just "Power ISA". So nothing is ruled out by that :-)
  • »06.01.10 - 03:58
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Slayer
    Posts: 37 from 2003/9/28
    @Samurai_Crow

    It'll be awesome compiling on this baby!

    Slayer does a wee jig and informs his two SAMs they have found Mommy! :-D

    [ Edited by Slayer on 2010/1/6 17:51 ]
  • »06.01.10 - 05:49
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Krashan
    Posts: 1107 from 2003/6/11
    From: Białystok...
    @samurai_crow

    "it is" and "it will be if ()" are two different statements. And even if the condition is fulfilled and we have a compiler, programming Xena will differ from programming AltiVec. With AltiVec you can freely interleave single AV instructions with code executed by the main core. For Xena you have to write a separate thread. Code of this thread must be uploaded to XS1 by the main program. Communication between the main thread and XS1 thread will be not that easy, especially as we don't know if main system memory is shared between CPU and XS1 and if cache cocherency is supported between them.
  • »06.01.10 - 07:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    Andre
    Good point there. No Pega 1 no port, due to it being a Hyperion and Hermans product then no Laire for sure and no Bigfoot, and definately no the trouble maker Henes :-D So that just about does it then... oh and Cisc and Piru probably out of it as well. Piru had a nice sensible post about the hardware realities and Itix's weblink is priceless. Though I think if you want an official answer if Morphos Team will port to this miracle board then you should click below to see the Official Morphos Support Memorandum:

    http://pulp.wrongpla.net/news/article159.html?e4c52d2a7ab06a819142c7fea71abba1=7cf711d1c335176d237b17fb4d782481

    With most Apple PPC platforms with G4 and Radeon support soon that is tough to top! Also Morphos 2.x is considerably more advanced.

    [ Edited by magnetic on 2010/1/6 3:45 ]
    Pegasos 2 Rev 2B3 w/ Freescale 7447 "G4" @ 1ghz / 1gb Nanya Ram
    Quad Boot: MorphOS 2.7 | Amiga OS4.1 U4 | Ubuntu PPC GNU/Linux | OS X 10.4
  • »06.01.10 - 08:35
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metalmac
    Posts: 87 from 2007/5/26
    Maby MorphOS team can make a Power Mac G5 version and crush the AmigaOne X1000 ;-)
    PowerBook G4@1.5Ghz, 1Gb ram, MorphOS 3.12
    Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1220/4@28Mhz, 500Mb HD, 6mb RAM, Workbench 3.1
    AspireOne, 1Gb RAM, 160Gb HD, Icaros Desktop
    AmigaOne 500, 2Gb ram, AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
  • »06.01.10 - 10:42
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 730 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    Quote:


    Maby MorphOS team can make a Power Mac G5 version and crush the AmigaOne X1000 ;-)


    I suspect they'll use some kind of decaffeinated 603 cores without altivec and small L2 caches. I would prefer an Apple G5 machine: easy to find, easy to replace and cheap
  • »06.01.10 - 12:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2028 from 2003/6/4
    Crumb:

    I guess they will use an okay ppc. But the price of the whole x1000 will probably be insane.
    And I doubt a G5 for MorphOS will cut it either. We will probably see no SMP (as far as one can say it is just not possible w/o breaking the compability). And with one core only the 970 isn't that much superior over the e600 core. The Altivec implemantation on the e600 is pretty nice. So I guess the effort to support the 970 is not worth the benefit.
    I think once the G4 mines are carved to fatigue it will be time to finally do the radical cut and move on to QBox-land (i.e. ISA independent design). But this requires heaps of loads of work. And I wouldn't hold my breath for that and semi officially the QBox is abandonned (but everything has a chance of a renaissance).



    [ Edited by Zylesea on 2010/1/6 13:51 ]
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »06.01.10 - 12:49
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Samurai_Crow
    Posts: 137 from 2009/12/10
    From: Minnesota, USA
    @Krashan

    I suspect that the code will be uploaded to the XCore chip via some DMA like any other local-store system would have. Xena is only going to be used to process interrupts in most situations since doing so on the main processor would trigger pipeline stalls. After all, having a dedicated thread for each interrupt saves having to swap out all the registers.
  • »06.01.10 - 15:21
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    CountRaven
    Posts: 563 from 2007/12/11
    From: Greece
    I am dreaming of a machine that can be ordered as NEW with warranty and support. I want to have high end specs and be able to boot both OSes and Linux. After all lets ask people if they want MorphOS in this new machine and if they are willing to pay for a new license. EDIT: Perhaps this should be done on another forum and not in here cause the background about this new machine is some kind of negative.

    I know that there was a serious war in the past. But I am dreaming of unity.

    MorphOS is still my favorite OS but I want to see a new dawn in the Amiga world.




    [ Edited by CountRaven on 2010/1/6 17:20 ]
  • »06.01.10 - 17:05
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 730 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    @Zylesea

    Quote:


    I guess they will use an okay ppc. But the price of the whole x1000 will probably be insane.


    I disagree in the first part but agree in the second one :-)

    Quote:

    We will probably see no SMP (as far as one can say it is just not possible w/o breaking the compability).


    Krashan described a clean method to launch tasks in other cores. It's not SMP but a good solution for new software without breaking A-Box API

    Quote:

    And with one core only the 970 isn't that much superior over the e600 core


    I disagree because G5 memory bus is *way* faster than G4 one.

    Quote:

    So I guess the effort to support the 970 is not worth the benefit.


    I think it would bring quite a lot of benefit: 2Ghz G5 are not difficult to find and have faster memory bus than G4 so things like FullHD Video could be possible. In addition to that G5 machines include faster gfx I/O too.
  • »06.01.10 - 17:07
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Krashan
    Posts: 1107 from 2003/6/11
    From: Białystok...
    Krashan described a clean method to launch tasks in other cores.

    In fact it is Assymetric Multi Processing. While not as elegant as SMP it has an advantage it can be introduced gradually with no compatibility breakage. MorphOS will support PowerMacs soon. Some of them are dualcore, which opens a field for experimenting.

    In real life one do not need mail program, instant messenger and IRC client to run on multiple cores. One expects it however from movie encoder, 3D raytracer and dnetc client ;-). Then disadvantage of ASMP, that only specifically prepared programs may run multicore, is not so painfull.

    [ Edited by Krashan on 2010/1/6 17:22 ]
  • »06.01.10 - 17:21
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:


    Krashan wrote:
    Krashan described a clean method to launch tasks in other cores.

    In fact it is Assymetric Multi Processing. While not as elegant as SMP it has an advantage it can be introduced gradually with no compatibility breakage. MorphOS will support PowerMacs soon. Some of them are dualcore, which opens a field for experimenting.

    In real life one do not need mail program, instant messenger and IRC client to run on multiple cores. One expects it however from movie encoder, 3D raytracer and dnetc client ;-). Then disadvantage of ASMP, that only specifically prepared programs may run multicore, is not so painfull.

    [ Edited by Krashan on 2010/1/6 17:22 ]


    Indeed! :-)
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  • »06.01.10 - 18:27
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2708 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    CountRaven wrote:
    I am dreaming of a machine that can be ordered as NEW with warranty and support.


    Then you should be wary of small upstarts, with no technical skills of their own (AFAIK they have commissioned both development and manufacturing of this one). Just look at the AmigaOne that *Eyetech* tried to sell, bug ridden and generally crappy, and it didn't take long until it were evident that Eyetech's "warranty and support" meant jack shit.

    Macs on the other hand are proven, and if one breaks, you can easily get it repaired. Or simply get a new one. They are that cheap.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »06.01.10 - 19:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The main CPU is currently a dual-core PPC clocked at 1.8 GHz.

    Where do you have that clock figure from?
  • »06.01.10 - 23:35
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