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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    So an Nvidia card becomes a requirement to boot when using a PC display card for MorphOS or is this just to display firmware prompts when booting?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »15.11.20 - 03:32
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Zetec-s
    Posts: 156 from 2008/7/10
    From: Cheshire, UK
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Is it possible to manually set the monitor rather than wait for Morphos to auto detect?

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12874&forum=9

    Is this what you're looking for?


    Perfect.

    Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
    PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5Ghz/2GB MorphOS 3.15 Registered
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  • »15.11.20 - 08:24
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Zetec-s
    Posts: 156 from 2008/7/10
    From: Cheshire, UK
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    So an Nvidia card becomes a requirement to boot when using a PC display card for MorphOS or is this just to display firmware prompts when booting?


    It is just necessary to do the first install of Morphos as I believe the Mac won’t initially boot with only a non Mac card in it.

    I’ve taken my nVidia out (as I’m all installed on Morphos) and mine boots fine into Morphos without it with only a PC graphics card in now.
    PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5Ghz/2GB MorphOS 3.15 Registered
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  • »15.11.20 - 08:28
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11444 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > It is just necessary to do the first install of Morphos as I believe
    > the Mac won’t initially boot with only a non Mac card in it.

    Do you mean the Nvidia card enables the manual adjustment of the OpenFirmware settings to have MorphOS booted automatically? Or something else?
  • »15.11.20 - 09:54
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Flash
    Posts: 75 from 2019/11/1
    Once installed MorphOS you can remove nvidia card.

    Actually on my setup (g5 quad core) I have swapped an ati x1900gt (pc bios) into the first 16x pcie slot and moved nvidia 6600 two step upper into 8x pcie slot.
    I have also two pcie ( one wifi atheros and one realtek lan cards) interleaved in remaining two slots.
    All runs very well under osx/linux and morphos :-)
  • »15.11.20 - 20:51
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 128 from 2017/8/7
    But what if i need the more performant gfx card in the fastest slot, for MacOsX apps supporting multiple cores and Core Image etc. but this card is not compatible with MorphOS?
    Will it work (MOS) with a comp. card in one of the x8 slots and ignore the unusable Radeon in the x16 slot?

    I am asking this because i have to buy another card to get MOS working while the Mac side stays as it is.

    I also don't really understand why it is so difficult to put a generic picture on the screen when the gfx card family is supported but the specific device is not. Isn't there a SVGA kindof signal all cards can do?

    [ Edited by amifrog 15.11.2020 - 21:41 ]
  • »15.11.20 - 21:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2789 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    amifrog wrote:
    But what if i need the more performant gfx card in the fastest slot, for MacOsX apps supporting multiple cores and Core Image etc. but this card is not compatible with MorphOS?
    Will it work with a comp. card in one of the x8 slots and ignore the unusable Radeon in the x16 slot?


    When you write "Will it work", I'm guessing that you mean "Will MacOSX work" and the answer should be yes, MacOSX will find the video card that it supports, no matter what PCIe slot it is placed in, and should ignore the Radeon video card with the PC bios. I can't confirm this is what happens (yet), but this is what I think happens from what I have read here and on other forums. I assume that if your "more performant gfx card" is capable of using the full bandwidth of a 16x PCIe slot, but you put it into a 8x slot, it should be backward compatible and just work at a lower performance, but there is some question about this opinion in different threads. Maybe some 16x video cards will not work at all when placed into an 8x slot?
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »15.11.20 - 21:34
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 128 from 2017/8/7
    No, will it work refers to MOS. MacOsX works always, obviously, provided with any Mac gfx card.
  • »15.11.20 - 21:40
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Flash
    Posts: 75 from 2019/11/1
    All Mac,Linux,mos os seems to work nicely in any combination of gfx cards.
    At least for me.
  • »15.11.20 - 22:04
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 438 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    @Flash: Good to hear!

    So it seems the X1900 XT is better left with PC-BIOS when you also want to run Linux? I had my X1900 XT Mac-flashed which was fine for MorphOS and OS X but in Linux the card was unbearably loud. Fan control didn't seem to work there. Sold it and was back again with my GF6600LE + X1600Pro combo which I am now (mosrly) happy with.
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.15 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2]
  • »15.11.20 - 23:02
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Flash
    Posts: 75 from 2019/11/1
    Sadly under Linux Ubuntu I was not able to use powerful x1900gt.
    It outputs still from nvidia 6600.
    II installed also Radeon drivers but ..no luck!
  • »15.11.20 - 23:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11444 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I also don't really understand why it is so difficult to put a generic
    > picture on the screen when the gfx card family is supported but the
    > specific device is not. Isn't there a SVGA kindof signal all cards can do?

    MorphOS doesn't support VESA BIOS Extensions if that's what you mean. Furthermore, MorphOS uses a whitelist of PCI IDs, so a GPU with a non-whitelisted PCI ID doesn't work even if the graphics driver is compatible with it.
  • »15.11.20 - 23:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11444 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > So it seems the X1900 XT is better left with PC-BIOS
    > when you also want to run Linux?

    Yes, see comment #29 (also here and there).
  • »16.11.20 - 00:10
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 438 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    Flash schrieb:
    Sadly under Linux Ubuntu I was not able to use powerful x1900gt. [...] It outputs still from nvidia 6600.

    Ah I see... That's no surprise given what outdated kernel & software stack the last PPC Ubuntu used. I run Gentoo & Void Linux on the G5 (guess kernel 5.4.x or 5.5.x at that time?) and the X1900 XT worked, but only with Xorg fbdev framebuffer driver. Besides being blazingly lould as I already mentioned.
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.15 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2]
  • »16.11.20 - 00:16
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 185 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Quote:

    Flash wrote:
    Sadly under Linux Ubuntu I was not able to use powerful x1900gt.
    It outputs still from nvidia 6600.
    II installed also Radeon drivers but ..no luck!


    Do you have custom xorg.conf? I use Debian Sid with two graphics cards, and I had to write own config, because automatic have wrong BusID in Device section.

    I can send it to you, if you want, but my card configuration is different than yours.
    - 1st x16 slot X1900-G5ed: used for MOS,OSX and disabled for linux
    - 3rd x8 slot HD6570: used for linux.

    [ Edited by sailor 16.11.2020 - 09:54 ]
    AmigaOS: Pegasos II, Sam440ep-flex, Micro A1-C, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »16.11.20 - 09:53
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Flash
    Posts: 75 from 2019/11/1
    oh yeah please send me cfg file and i'll try to adapt it for my case, tnx!
  • »16.11.20 - 11:01
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 185 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Here is my config:
    Code:
    Section "Monitor"
    Identifier "Monitor1"
    EndSection

    Section "Device"
    Identifier "Card1"
    Driver "radeon"
    BusID "PCI:6@1:0:0"
    EndSection

    Section "Screen"
    Identifier "Screen1"
    Device "Card1"
    Monitor "Monitor1"
    SubSection "Display"
    Depth 24
    Modes "1920x1080_75.00"
    EndSubSection
    EndSection

    Search your cards with "lspci":
    Code:
    0000:00:0b.0 PCI bridge: Apple Inc. CPC945 PCIe Bridge
    0000:0a:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] R580+ [Radeon X1950 XTX]
    0001:00:00.0 Host bridge: Apple Inc. U4 HT Bridge
    0001:00:01.0 PCI bridge: Broadcom BCM5780 [HT2000] PCI-X bridge (rev a3)
    0001:00:02.0 PCI bridge: Broadcom BCM5780 [HT2000] PCI-X bridge (rev a3)
    0001:00:03.0 PCI bridge: Broadcom BCM5780 [HT2000] PCI-Express Bridge (rev a3)
    0001:00:04.0 PCI bridge: Broadcom BCM5780 [HT2000] PCI-Express Bridge (rev a3)
    0001:00:05.0 PCI bridge: Broadcom BCM5780 [HT2000] PCI-Express Bridge (rev a3)
    0001:00:06.0 PCI bridge: Broadcom BCM5780 [HT2000] PCI-Express Bridge (rev a3)
    0001:00:07.0 PCI bridge: Apple Inc. Shasta PCI Bridge
    0001:00:08.0 PCI bridge: Apple Inc. Shasta PCI Bridge
    0001:00:09.0 PCI bridge: Apple Inc. Shasta PCI Bridge
    0001:01:07.0 Unassigned class [ff00]: Apple Inc. Shasta Mac I/O
    0001:01:0b.0 USB controller: NEC Corporation OHCI USB Controller (rev 43)
    0001:01:0b.1 USB controller: NEC Corporation OHCI USB Controller (rev 43)
    0001:01:0b.2 USB controller: NEC Corporation uPD72010x USB 2.0 Controller (rev 04)
    0001:03:0c.0 IDE interface: Broadcom K2 SATA
    0001:03:0d.0 Unassigned class [ff00]: Apple Inc. Shasta IDE
    0001:03:0e.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Apple Inc. Shasta Firewire
    0001:05:04.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries NetXtreme BCM5780 Gigabit Ethernet (rev 03)
    0001:05:04.1 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries NetXtreme BCM5780 Gigabit Ethernet (rev 03)
    0001:06:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Turks PRO [Radeon HD 6570/7570/8550]
    0001:06:00.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Turks HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 6500/6600 / 6700M Series]
    0001:08:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 15)
    0001:09:00.0 SCSI storage controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88SX7042 PCI-e 4-port SATA-II (rev 02)


    my cards are at these addresses:
    0000:0a:00.0 - Radeon X1950 G5
    0001:06:00.0 - Radeon HD 6570

    if you have the same adresses and x1900gt at first x16 slot, for you work something like this:
    Code:
    Section "Monitor"
    Identifier "Monitor0"
    EndSection

    Section "Device"
    Identifier "Card0"
    Driver "radeon"
    BusID "PCI:a@0:0:0"
    EndSection

    Section "Screen"
    Identifier "Screen0"
    Device "Card0"
    Monitor "Monitor0"
    SubSection "Display"
    Depth 24
    Modes "1920x1080_75.00"
    EndSubSection
    EndSection

    Change resolution according your monitor. And don't use amdgpu but radeon driver.

    [ Edited by sailor 17.11.2020 - 16:01 ]
    AmigaOS: Pegasos II, Sam440ep-flex, Micro A1-C, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »17.11.20 - 15:57
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 185 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    MorphOS doesn't support VESA BIOS Extensions if that's what you mean. Furthermore, MorphOS uses a whitelist of PCI IDs, so a GPU with a non-whitelisted PCI ID doesn't work even if the graphics driver is compatible with it.


    Please, is this whitelist publicly available? I suppose it is somewhere inside Boot.img?

    And what such whitelist good for? Without deeper knowledge of this I expect as standart solution enable every card for which GPU I have driver. Yes, in such case there will be some cards with certain GPU, which not works, but ammount of usable cards will be higher then in the case of whitelist.
    AmigaOS: Pegasos II, Sam440ep-flex, Micro A1-C, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »12.01.21 - 07:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11444 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > is this whitelist publicly available?

    Not that I know of.

    > I suppose it is somewhere inside Boot.img?

    I don't know for sure where it is. I suppose it's in the graphics driver because there were cases of non-working but technically supported (going by the GPU type) graphics cards, where bigfoot (or was it cyfm?) requested the PCI ID from the card owners and sent them a new graphics driver which then worked with the cards.

    > what such whitelist good for?

    Maybe a MorphOS team member will answer this :-)
  • »12.01.21 - 21:17
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Flash
    Posts: 75 from 2019/11/1
    Maybe MOS team could let users to edit whitelist looking for all compatible models and let them decide in last instance.
    ..and/or than redirect morphzone forum feedbacks into a sticky topic to update new pci id time after time.
  • »12.01.21 - 21:30
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11444 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Maybe MOS team could let users to edit whitelist looking for
    > all compatible models and let them decide in last instance.

    Instead of allowing users to edit the whitelist, another possibility would be to have a (semi-documented) advanced option (via tooltype, ENV var etc.) to switch off the whitelist restriction.
  • »12.01.21 - 21:52
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Encouraged by directly this discussion, I dug out my quad and reinstalled my X1900GT. Added a CMI based sound card as well.
    Have I mentioned how much I hate working on G5s?
    I had to replace an SATA cable, which involved pulling all the cards out again and disassembling the hard drive mounts.
    This design's layout sucks compared to the easy access a G4 affords to everything.
    A real step backward.
    Good idea to get it the way you want (no doubt through much pain) and then button it up and leave it be!
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »13.01.21 - 01:20
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Zetec-s
    Posts: 156 from 2008/7/10
    From: Cheshire, UK
    After upgrading my MacMini and Powerbook to Morphos 3.15 last weekend, I've hit a block updating my G5 Quad.

    All the installations and upgrades of Morphos I have done before I have used a USB pen drive and the Open Firmware. However, I have removed the NVidia card from my G5 so to avoid having to re-insert it I have burnt a CDR and then tried to install that way.

    The issue I have is that even if I hold C on boot-up, the machine still (eventually) boots from the harddrive and comes up with a message confirming that it hasn't booted from the CD (which is a nice touch by the way).

    I've also tried pressing Alt on start-up but I presume that puts me into an early boot-up menu I can't see on the ATI graphics card.

    I've tried the CDR on my MacMini and that boots fine with me holding C on boot-up, so its not the media.

    As a last resort I will reinstall the nVidia card but I was just wondering if there is a way around this at all?

    I might try Openfirmware yet and try typing it blind.
    PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5Ghz/2GB MorphOS 3.15 Registered
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  • »17.01.21 - 11:13
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2513 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    You cannot enter the OF “blindly” because it does not work at all without a supported graphics card. I think the same applies to the C key.
  • »17.01.21 - 13:45
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Update: System refuses to boot with CMI audio card or Sil SATA controller installed (even when I use an SATA controller with Mac compatible firmware).
    Radeon HD 4770 won't boot and FirePro V3800 and V4800 cards produce the wrong colors, distorted incorrectly formatted screens, and lockups during initial preference settings.
    Had to resort to using a 2.5" laptop drive as my SSD is not recognised (and I didn't want to reformat my 3.5" OSX boot drive).
    Oh, and I can't get the wireless network card to work.
    The 1900GT video card occasionally locks up (probably overheating vram) and the OS has decided that my monitor can only run at 31.5 MHz with an 800 by 600 resolution (I'll have to research that).
    Guess I need to buy another wireless card.
    Expansion slots are too close together and I ditched that flimsy metal shield Apple had installed on the inside of the case openings (pain in the ass to keep in place).
    I still need to install the SDK, Chrysalis pack, and Wayfarer.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »22.01.21 - 19:27
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