X5000 GPU Recommendation?
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 131 from 2019/5/9
    >> Powermac G5 Quad with Radeon X1900-G5-ed ([...] no lnx)
    >I'm surprised that Linux doesn't support this. That's not what I had expected.

    Doesn't. At least not out-of-the box. It runs framebuffer with modesetting disabled, but enabling causes 'invalid ROM contents' - it has something to do with Atom bios, which is not present on G5 edition. Standart X1900 cards are reported as working with powerpc linux.

    >> For future will be great x64 - here I mean PPC(be)x64 + SMP to utilize
    >> todays NG Amigas and old Powermac G5.
    >What's "PPC(be)x64"? Some hybrid-ISA CPU yet to be developed? :-) PA6T, P5020 and PPC970 are >PPC64(-BE), no x64 inside. Btw, Tabor/A1222's P1022 is just 32-bit.

    It means PPC64 big endian, with fully-64bit/SMP MorphOS on it. For G5, PA6T, P5020/040, T2080 and whatever obscure.

    >> Next makes me sense go to PPC(le) - like Talos or Blackbird
    >The nice thing about POWER9 is that it can still run in BE mode for legacy compatibility.

    yes. And POWER8 also.

    >> migration to x86-64 for me means show stopper. [...] what advantage
    >> MorphOS have over Win, linux or unix?
    >Linux/Unix also run on non-x64 (ARM, Power etc.).

    of course, but ARM in general not yet so powerful like x86-64, so there is a gap for MorphOS.
    And both ARM and Power are used by enthusiast - also gap for MorphOS.
    But in x86-64 world? I don't know - I am not developer or project leader - it is not my decision. But me personally don't have any reason to use MorphOS on standard PC.
    Pegasos II 1.33GHz, AmigaOne X1000, Powermac G5 Quad, iMac G5, Powerbook G4 and Z10PE-D16 WS
    MorphOS, AmigaOS, Debian, Ubuntu, OSX, NetBSD, Win7 ;-)
  • »28.05.20 - 13:53
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    sailor wrote:

    Yes, I agree. Such red vs blue wars are stupid. Unfortunately they are very common since Amiga birth ;-) I can say it is our hobby ;-)


    I wouldn't say since birth. While Commodore was still around it was all about advocacy. Anyone who lives through that era knows that extreme advocacy was not limited to Amiga or Commodore products. C64 owners knew their computer was the best since it was the best selling. Apple II owners knew their computer was best because it was "not a toy". IBM PC computers knew theirs to be the best because IBM was Big Blue. Atari ST knew theirs to be the best because of the due to the MIDI built in. It goes on and on.

    Commodore bankrupted and the interwebs was born. That advocacy transferred online. Communities formed in various ways, attempts by companies to revive the "Amiga" were being made. Some real, some bad jokes, and some outright scams. People starting making up their mind what was "teh reals" and what wasn't. Mini camps started forming. People would argue what was a "real Amiga" or not. Some of it in hindsight was pretty silly or stupid, but usually completely harmless.

    The problem came a little later. MorphOS started early and had negotiations with McBill's Amiga Inc to become OS4. Those fell through and MorphOS forged on independently. MorphOS was largely seen as a curiosity in these days as there were other similar (though simpler) projects like pOS. It wasn't until McBill contracted Hyperion (a small time game company) to port OS3.1 to PPC and call it OS4 did the ugliness begin.

    Pretty soon this game company's laywer started making statements like "MorphOS is based on stolen code", it was "illegal" and he was going to sue the developers. Suddenly there was no simple harmless advocacy, people took red or blue sides on if MorphOS was an illegal pirate product. The red side were the aggressors, the blue side were defending themselves.

    That's how it started. It simply got worse with actual lawsuits between companies (not MorphOS though). A certain Belgium lawyer poisoned the well. OS4 is essentially dead with only 3rd parties providing updates, so the war is essentially dead. However, the history helped create the differing paths. People who want to stay niche with "the name" largely stay on the red side. People who want to distance themselves from the name and forge a new path on industry standard hardware, largely go blue.

    [ Edited by redrumloa 28.05.2020 - 14:20 ]
  • »28.05.20 - 18:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11207 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I have learned only recently from Dave Needle (RIP) interviews
    > how much of an asshole Jack Tramiel was.

    At least this interview (excerpt?) seems to contain more (anecdotal) information about Sam and Leonard than about Jack himself.
  • »28.05.20 - 18:31
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11207 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Atom bios [...] is not present on G5 edition.

    Yes, I know. I'd have thought the Linux developers had catered to this difference. Pity they didn't.

    > fully-64bit/SMP MorphOS on [...] PA6T, [...] T2080

    I doubt we'll ever see MorphOS (NG or current gen) on Nemo/X1000. MorphOS on the T2080-based notebook would be nice (if it ever comes).

    >>> Next makes me sense go to PPC(le) - like Talos or Blackbird

    >> The nice thing about POWER9 is that it can still run in BE mode for legacy compatibility.

    > yes. And POWER8 also.

    Problem with POWER8 is the lack of a nice and relatively small and affordable desktop/workstation like the Blackbird is for POWER9.

    >>> migration to x86-64 for me means show stopper. [...] what advantage
    >>> MorphOS have over Win, linux or unix?

    >> Linux/Unix also run on non-x64 (ARM, Power etc.).

    > ARM in general not yet so powerful like x86-64, so there is a gap for MorphOS.
    > And both ARM and Power are used by enthusiast - also gap for MorphOS.

    What I meant was that if MorphOS makes no sense on x64 because it runs also Linux, then why should MorphOS make sense on ARM or Power where Linux runs as well?
  • »28.05.20 - 19:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11207 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Commodore bankrupted and the interwebs was born.

    ...or rather widespread. The WWW precedes Commodore's bankruptcy.

    > MorphOS started early and had negotiations with McBill's Amiga Inc
    > to become OS4. [...] MorphOS was largely seen as a curiosity in these
    > days as there were other similar (though simpler) projects like pOS.

    Development of pOS was abandoned before MorphOS development even started silently and years before first MorphOS beta release. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your implied timeline, but pOS and MorphOS certainly weren't contemporaries.

    > this game company's laywer started making statements like
    > "MorphOS is based on stolen code", it was "illegal"

    Remarkably, this lawyer was also one of the company's managing partners. And let's not forget who really started making those statements and kept on repeating them for at least a decade.

    > It simply got worse with actual lawsuits between companies

    Interestingly, the only somewhat "blue vs. red" lawsuit (Thendic/Genesi vs. Amiga Inc.) wasn't really about anything red (AmigaOS) or blue (MorphOS), even though the plaintiffs unsuccessfully tried to drag OS4 into this.

    > People who want to distance themselves from the name and forge
    > a new path on industry standard hardware, largely go blue.

    I can only speak for myself, but when I switched from AmigaOS 3.x to MorphOS 1.x, it wasn't to distance myself from the name. It was because I cared less for the name than for the technology and who offered it first. Had negotiations between MorphOS team and Amiga Inc. been successfull, I'd have remained an AmigaOS user :-)
  • »28.05.20 - 20:59
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 131 from 2019/5/9
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > ARM in general not yet so powerful like x86-64, so there is a gap for MorphOS.
    > And both ARM and Power are used by enthusiast - also gap for MorphOS.

    What I meant was that if MorphOS makes no sense on x64 because it runs also Linux, then why should MorphOS make sense on ARM or Power where Linux runs as well?


    Again - important is what makes sense to Morphos-team guys. Not for me. But if you ask:
    Have a big sense to have MorphOS for example on my BananaPro or many other small "slow" SBCs. Yes, I have linux here, but.. Lazy, ugly compares to MOS on Pegasos2.
    And on Power? Power is Morphos "native" CPU. Talos/Blackbird are powerful modern computers. A1X5k / A1X1k are "new", but not modern. Not mention to Sam460Ex. Nevertheless it was very good job from A-Eon and A-Cube.
    When Morphos was borned, there was Pegasos - relatively modern and capable (i.e. not so far behind) these days compares to PC world. What computer can buy new users like gz3fwd?
    Btw, I have no problem to install MorphOS even to one lpar on s922 ;-) - the day is long an boring sometimes ;-)

    Sorry for offtopic.
    Pegasos II 1.33GHz, AmigaOne X1000, Powermac G5 Quad, iMac G5, Powerbook G4 and Z10PE-D16 WS
    MorphOS, AmigaOS, Debian, Ubuntu, OSX, NetBSD, Win7 ;-)
  • »29.05.20 - 06:34
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 257 from 2015/6/30
    If this can be addressed on both Sam460ex and X5000 then options are opened up.
    For the X5000 a PCI Radeon 9xxx card as a simple solution .

    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > This is with the Polaris card installed but the SM502 as the first card initialized .
    > [...]
    > !!! OpenScreen(): Could not find any valid modeids. No graphics card? !!!

    Oh, this is bad and unexpected. Thanks for trying. I really wonder why MorphOS acts this way. Very unfortunate.
  • »29.05.20 - 15:40
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Commodore bankrupted and the interwebs was born.

    ...or rather widespread. The WWW precedes Commodore's bankruptcy.


    Yup, I mean widespread. Sure the internet has been around far longer, but the form we know of today really started forming in the 94-95 timeframe IMO.


    Quote:

    Development of pOS was abandoned before MorphOS development even started silently and years before first MorphOS beta release. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your implied timeline, but pOS and MorphOS certainly weren't contemporaries.


    Just reading too much into it. I wasn't suggesting they were direct contemporaries, only that people reading about the first reports of MorphOS wouldn't have been shocked. They'd have other examples to compare it to they had heard of that never really materialized. I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think pOS was ever officially announced as dead?

    [ Edited by redrumloa 01.06.2020 - 08:42 ]
  • »01.06.20 - 12:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11207 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > people reading about the first reports of MorphOS wouldn't have
    > been shocked. They'd have other examples to compare it to they
    > had heard of that never really materialized.

    The main differences between the pOS pre-release and the first public MorphOS beta release were, from my perspective:
    One needed to run on top of AmigaOS while the other didn't (just required Workbench for lack of own graphical program launcher). One couldn't run AmigaOS software while the other could. One was all m68k while the other ran natively on my PowerPC.
    To me, these made all the difference between a dead-end curiosity and the beginnings of a viable path to the future.

    > I don't think pOS was ever officially announced as dead?

    Correct, as with the vast majority of abandoned projects. On the other hand, I've just found a German forum post from 2007 that reports proDAD's information (in reply to an inquiry to allow putting the OS on Aminet) that pOS was a commercially very successful product at that time (2007!). Maybe as an embedded OS? We don't know as the planned interview didn't happen, AFAIK.

    Btw, fun fact: pOS can run hosted on MorphOS according to this German forum post from MorphOS 1.4.5 era.
  • »01.06.20 - 18:01
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