I own the fastest NG Amiga Compatible - Prove me wrong!
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11462 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > considering the fact that we now have support for cards with 512MB or more
    > (up to 2GB) of vram, this limitation shouldn't exist.

    As I wrote in comment #52 (and if I'm not mistaken), MorphOS still can only use up to 256 MiB VRAM because RAM + VRAM must fit into 31-bit address space. Or has this changed with MorphOS 3.10 or 3.11?
  • »06.09.18 - 18:57
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > considering the fact that we now have support for cards with 512MB or more
    > (up to 2GB) of vram, this limitation shouldn't exist.

    As I wrote in comment #52 (and if I'm not mistaken), MorphOS still can only use up to 256 MiB VRAM because RAM + VRAM must fit into 31-bit address space. Or has this changed with MorphOS 3.10 or 3.11?


    Interesting issue. We map vram into address space?
    I must admit, I am not that familiar with how Amiga related OS' use RTG cards.

    When we were writing drivers for VGA cards under OS9 68K, graphics were not mapped into processor space.
    But I can see why this would be natural with an Amiga related OS as legacy Amigas mapped video in chipram.

    In fact, I always like memory mapped video, even when it was something crude like the VDG used in Tandy Color Computers.

    VDPs that mapped through a window like the TMS9918 were more difficult to code for.

    Still, I'm left wonder how vram can be mapped like this when it's accessed through a bus (PCI, AGP, PCIe, etc).
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.09.18 - 19:22
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Anyway, enough.
    Cheerio! And to all the conspiracy-theory guys: get a life.
    Daniel


    Calm down. There is only discussion here. With one lone person who is a disgruntled customer whom might have come off rude, the rest is just your average discussion.

    I started a thread about benchmarking, and was asked to use this game to do so. I've seen Trevor's benchmark blog post referenced numerous times as a baseline. I find his benchmark post to be disingenuous, but as mentioned, he has computers to sell.

    I purchased your product and am happy with it. Everyone I've seen has the same opinion, except one user with a Pegasos. Don't see conspiracy theories where there are none. If you have an issue with my opinion Trevor's benchmark was disingenuous, I can't help that.

    Anyhow, thanks for the feedback and thanks for the game port.
  • »06.09.18 - 22:49
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Can we get back on topic now?

    Now we know Tower 57 is not a benchmark candidate. What is? Anything more strenuous than Quake 3?
  • »06.09.18 - 22:52
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Daytona675x
    Posts: 109 from 2013/12/5
    @ASiegel
    Quote:

    The game happens to have been ported by someone who has also been contracted by A-eon [...] they will fly him out for Amiwest all the way from Europe even. [...] I do not think it is far fetched to assume that the version for [AOS4] is the most optimized one compared to the AROS and MorphOS ports. [...] if you want to gauge the credibility of the published benchmark numbers, all you need to remember is that results on AROS were not included

    This is what you wrote. It's pure discrediting speculations / accusations / claims, nothing else. It remains to be that even if you add the phrase "hey, it's okay" (actually that phrase makes the former stuff appear even more fact-like) and now try to qualify the former by foregrounding that.
    Don't want me to call your crap "conspiracy theories"? Fine with me, let's call it ASiegel's groundless fanboy diarrhoea instead.
    And the fact that you keep up your stuff despite my corrective statements just underlines it. But I should really stop wasting my time with people like you, it's pointless and I should know better.

    @koszer
    Quote:

    I just can't understand why G5 2.5 GHz (I know, an antique system) gives him around 60 FPS, even with stock Radeon 9600.

    That such an antique system reaches 60+ fps with this game is actually a great result.

    Quote:

    And even then, using a low-end video card against Radeon HD 7xxx is a bit childish, isn't it? ;)

    :-) Maybe. But those are simply the setups he got, so as long as he stated the configurations, well.


    @redrumloa
    Quote:

    With one lone person who is a disgruntled customer whom might have come off rude

    naTmeg? Rude? No, I at least felt not offended by him in any way. Others were the problem.

    Quote:

    I find his benchmark post to be disingenuous, but as mentioned, he has computers to sell.

    Again, such claims are groundless speculations / claims.

    Quote:

    Don't see conspiracy theories where there are none.

    I am not the one who sees things that aren't there...

    Quote:

    If you have an issue with my opinion Trevor's benchmark was disingenuous, I can't help that.

    If you still think that those were made up even when I told you that this is certainly not the case, I can't help you. Then you obviously simply want to believe what you want to. Besides that the numbers were absolutely plausible.

    Quote:

    Now we know Tower 57 is not a benchmark candidate.

    It depends. It actually delivers nice valid comparisons - for a certain type of system use, of course, but certainly more real-life than most synthetic benchmarks. But the fact that it has no built-in automatic benchmark mode like Q3 makes it hard to use for true benchmarking. Btw., this is what I told the beta-testers for doing benchmarks ;-)
    Quote:


    Benchmarks:
    ***********

    If you want to provide me with benchmarks, please do the following:

    - download the file Benchmark_ReferenceSavegame.zip
    - in case you want to preserve eventual savegames:
    - rename Work:Tower57/current Work:Tower57/current_backup
    - then
    - makedir Work:Tower57/current
    - delete Work:Tower57/current/#?
    - then copy the content of the downloaded archive into this now empty folder.
    - activate tooltype fps=1
    - launch the game.
    - cancel the ASL screenmode requester if it appears, we want window-mode.
    - use the mouse to control the menu.
    - select "continue game" and select the first and only savegame.
    - once the level has been loaded and the level-name at the bottom disappeared,
    important: move the mouse-cursor over the legs of the character and wait
    for a few seconds to let the fps-counter settle.
    - give that value to me :)



    Btw., those here were the last fps comparisons I made and published (all but the G5 results were made by me, don't know anymore by whom the G5 results were). But even those are outdated (some weeks before the actual release of the first version), so the current version is certainly faster (exception are the WinUAE and PC tests, those were done with some release version).
    Quote:


    Sewer test savegame, windowed:

    MOS, PowerMac G4, 733MHz, Radeon9000, hicolor: 30
    AOS4, sam440ep, Radeon M9, hicolor: 28
    AOS4, sam460ex, Radeon SI, hicolor: 49
    AOS4, sam460ex, Radeon SI, truecolor: 39
    AOS4, Tabor SPE, Radeon SI, hicolor: 78
    AOS4, Tabor SPE, Radeon SI, truecolor: 66
    AOS4, X5000, Radeon SI, hicolor: 155
    AOS4, X5000, Radeon SI, truecolor: 122
    AROSx86, AMD C-60 APU, 1 GHz, hicolor: 71
    AROSx86, AMD C-60 APU, 1 GHz, truecolor: 65
    MOS, PowerMac G5, 2.7GHz, Radeon 9800 Pro, hicolor: 84
    MOS, PowerMac G5, 2.7GHz, Radeon 9800 Pro, truecolor: 78
    WinUAE, i7 4790K, 4 GHz, on-chip gfx, truecolor: 50
    Official Steam-build, Sony Vaio i5 2.3 GHz: 27
    Windows-build based on Amiga version, Sony Vaio i5 2.3 GHz: 330
    Windows-build based on Amiga version, i7 4790K, 4 GHz: 1000+

  • »07.09.18 - 10:29
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    naTmeg
    Posts: 135 from 2004/2/8
    @Daytona675x:
    Thank's for the reply. I read the whole readme and tested may combinations, but nothing helps. The Peg2 seems just to weak.

    @redrumloa:
    I just state things like they are and I'm not used to talk in phrases. It may sound rude sometimes, but helps to bring an issue to the point. Would you be happy, if you buy a product that does not work as expected? Wouldn't you also be a "disgruntled customer"? Okay, enough of this topic now.

    For your benchmaking. You could try RTCW. It does use an advanced version of the Q3-engine with higher textures. If also features a timedemo iirc.

    I also wrote a benchmark app about 15 year ago. If you want to give it a try, I'll send you the user-database via email because synchronization does not work anymore. PM me, if interested.

    http://www.haru.at/?pid=detail&cat=projects&type=native&id=ddaa92c4&img=1&text=r
  • »07.09.18 - 10:36
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cool_amigaN
    Posts: 628 from 2011/11/30
    @red

    Seriously would you consider the below as "average discussion"?

    Quote:

    So the ministry of propaganda comparisons are accurate then, especially considering the game is closed source to begin with.


    @ASiegel

    Sorry, but your original post did seemed to imply that the connection of Daytona and A-EON equals to a version of MorphOS optimized to a lesser degree. Otherwise, I really can't understand even the reference of his flight to AmiWest. Did AEOn took a special treatment on him, so he worked better on OS4 port? What exactly did you mean?

    @Daytona

    Quote:

    Windows-build based on Amiga version, Sony Vaio i5 2.3 GHz: 330


    Need that built so badly! Any chance we can discuss in PM? :)

    @Andreas

    FYI, Steam windows version runs under 512MB Vram nominal value (as I have stated) while true/free VRAM is under 256MB (tested and confirmed)
    Amiga gaming Tribute: Watch, rate, comment :)
  • »07.09.18 - 13:59
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  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 603 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    @Daytona675x

    Could You make an overlay based output also. Our overlay supports 24bit RGB so in theory (as i don' know internals), it should be easy to extened onchipgfx (if it works as framebuffer). We will get scalling for free and probably some better memory transfers.
  • »07.09.18 - 14:42
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Cool_amigaN wrote:
    @red

    Seriously would you consider the below as "average discussion"?

    Quote:

    So the ministry of propaganda comparisons are accurate then, especially considering the game is closed source to begin with.




    It's called humor. The Iraqi Minister Of Propaganda was a meme before "meme" was even a term.

    raknjt.jpg

    The worst I've said about Trevor is he was "disingenuous" with the blog post. That's not exactly libel territory. Daytona is insisting I am mistaken and he was just using what was on hand. So be it.
  • »07.09.18 - 17:32
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    naTmeg wrote:
    @redrumloa:
    I just state things like they are and I'm not used to talk in phrases. It may sound rude sometimes, but helps to bring an issue to the point. Would you be happy, if you buy a product that does not work as expected? Wouldn't you also be a "disgruntled customer"? Okay, enough of this topic now.


    I don't see "disgruntled customer" as a particularly negative term myself, but yeah I'd rather get back on topic too.

    Quote:

    For your benchmaking. You could try RTCW. It does use an advanced version of the Q3-engine with higher textures. If also features a timedemo iirc.

    I also wrote a benchmark app about 15 year ago. If you want to give it a try, I'll send you the user-database via email because synchronization does not work anymore. PM me, if interested.

    http://www.haru.at/?pid=detail&cat=projects&type=native&id=ddaa92c4&img=1&text=r


    Cool. I'll try out RTCW when I get a chance. I'll probably also reach out to you for your benchmark tool.
  • »07.09.18 - 17:37
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Daytona675x
    Posts: 109 from 2013/12/5
    @naTmeg
    Quote:

    Thank's for the reply. I read the whole readme and tested may combinations, but nothing helps. The Peg2 seems just to weak.

    Too bad :-(
    If it runs fast enough / significantly faster in window-mode, did you try fullscreenwindow=1 ?

    @Cool_amigaN
    Quote:

    Windows-build based on Amiga version, Sony Vaio i5 2.3 GHz: 330
    Need that built so badly! Any chance we can discuss in PM? :)

    You got PM ;-)

    @zukow
    Quote:

    Could You make an overlay based output also.

    I truely don't want to touch this project anymore.
    However, if you got some sample code to show me how to do it and if it's sth. that's working especially on those slow systems like naTmeg's, then I'd probably give it a try.
  • »09.09.18 - 08:50
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 439 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    Daytona675x schrieb:
    I truely don't want to touch this project anymore.

    Also scanlines support on MorphOS is still missing. :-(
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.15 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2]
  • »09.09.18 - 14:08
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Korni
    Posts: 470 from 2006/2/23
    From: the Planet of ...
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:
    Quote:

    Daytona675x schrieb:
    I truely don't want to touch this project anymore.

    Also scanlines support on MorphOS is still missing. :-(


    Scanlines are supported on MorphOS with a CRT monitor. Upgrade now ;).
    http://korni.ppa.pl/modkowypaczek/ | My Rifle, My Bunny, and Me
  • »09.09.18 - 15:09
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 439 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    Korni schrieb:
    Scanlines are supported on MorphOS with a CRT monitor. Upgrade now ;).

    Actually I am happy these CRT times are gone. But I still like the look. ;-)
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.15 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2]
  • »10.09.18 - 07:42
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