MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1420 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    I have very slow upload bandwidth so I no video upload.

    Today's benchmark produces 95.9 in 1600x1200 .

    Settings


    I got a chance to go out to my workshop today and do a benchmark because of curiosity. Here's my setup on the desk.

    PowerMac G5 @ 2.3Ghz
    Ati Radeon X800

    One thing I found out on this setup is in quake lower screen resolutions gave me lower FPS than higher resolutions. Go figure. Anyhow at 1600x1200 and EVERYTHING maxed out I got 114.9 fps.

    Some time next week my Radeon FireGL x3 will come in. I'll load that into the G5 2.7 Ghz and redo the benchmark. My current monitor for my PowerMac doesn't like to go over 1600x1200. I'll either have to buy a new one or borrow one from one of my PCs. I'm thinking the 2.7 with FireGL x3 will fly even at 1080p.

    Will update next week.


    [ Edited by redrumloa 24.08.2018 - 19:40 ]
  • »25.08.18 - 00:33
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1420 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    FireGL X3 requires a re-flashed bios, and can be tricky to implement.
    It might be the o my card to require this (unless you consider PC cards like the X800XT or 9800).


    The seller I am buying it from already flashed it. He's sold quite a number of these and has a very good seller rating. I should be fine :-)

    -Edit-
    If it benches worse than the X800, I'll return it. He advertises it as the fastest gfx card for a G5 AGP model.

    [ Edited by redrumloa 24.08.2018 - 19:43 ]
  • »25.08.18 - 00:34
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1234 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    If it benches worse than the X800, I'll return it. He advertises it as the fastest gfx card for a G5 AGP model.

    Simply put, the FireGL-x3 is a relabelled X800 (same chip, same memory, etc). There should not be much of a difference between both cards while running MorphOS.
  • »25.08.18 - 09:14
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1420 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:

    Simply put, the FireGL-x3 is a relabelled X800 (same chip, same memory, etc). There should not be much of a difference between both cards while running MorphOS.


    Hmm, reading the specs of both it seems you are correct. I wonder why I've seen on other sites claiming it is faster than X800?

    Also, looking more at the specs of various Radeon AGP cards with 3D under MorphOS, the x1950pro has higher gpu and ram speed? Is it the fastest AGP option and not the X800/FireGL x3?

    -Edit- searching this forum and Google it seems it is faster, but those x1950pro boards are flaky. Hmm...

    [ Edited by redrumloa 26.08.2018 - 00:39 ]
  • »26.08.18 - 05:04
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 478 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    One thing is for sure, we can all agree the Tabor had no chance in hell to even compete in this or was able to benchmark anything close while running OS4. ;) But then again, who would ever be dull enough to ever purchase that catastrophe called a Tabor?!?!?!? :)
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  • »26.08.18 - 07:57
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1420 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Doffo wrote:
    One thing is for sure, we can all agree the Tabor had no chance in hell to even compete in this or was able to benchmark anything close while running OS4. ;) But then again, who would ever be dull enough to ever purchase that catastrophe called a Tabor?!?!?!? :)



    I guess that's why it seems to have quietly died on the vine.
  • »26.08.18 - 08:01
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 257 from 2015/6/30
    Only Tabor Benchmark released thus far was for Tower57 .

    Link
  • »26.08.18 - 13:03
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  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 556 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Sadly, Tower57 is written in strange way that it needs PCIe machines (*) to get decent FPS. It runs very fast on my PCIe G5 and way slower on my AGP G5. So in fact, this benchmark tells nothing.



    (*) Sam460 is so slow that even having pcie it's slower than anything :)
  • »26.08.18 - 14:35
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 755 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Only Tabor Benchmark released thus far was for Tower57 .

    Link


    Useless numbers without the actual cards being listed.
  • »26.08.18 - 15:58
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 257 from 2015/6/30
    Trevor's Amiga Blog

    Quote:

    As I have a few Next-Generation Amiga machines (*understatement*) I decided to perform some of my own Tower57 benchmarks. Although as I have often said, I'm not a great fan of benchmarks, it was good to be able to test the Amiga Next-Generation systems against mainstream computers. The results are quite remarkable. Unfortunately, I could not get the AROS version to run on my machine because I need to update my version of Icaros Desktop, a job I put aside for another day. Fortunately I have a good selection of AmigaOS and MorphOS machines to keep me busy. I used the full true colour version of Tower 57 rather than the reduced 16-bit version for lower powered machines for my benchmark comparisons. The model of graphic card also has an effect on the frames per second (fps) performance of Tower57. As you might expect, more powerful graphics cards produce better results. So in all of the tests with my AmigaOne machines, I used a middish-upper range passively cooled 1Gb Radeon HD7750 graphics card. All of the MorphOS based Apple machines used the standard built-in graphics cards they were supplied with.
  • »26.08.18 - 16:03
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 755 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    So in other words, Trevor has found out that integral graphics cards don't perform as well as external ones.

    Wonder what he'll do as an encore. Prove that spoons are less good at spreading butter but worse at cutting bread?
  • »26.08.18 - 16:18
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1420 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    As you might expect, more powerful graphics cards produce better results. So in all of the tests with my AmigaOne machines, I used a middish-upper range passively cooled 1Gb Radeon HD7750 graphics card. All of the MorphOS based Apple machines used the standard built-in graphics cards they were supplied with.


    LOL!! So comparing a gfx card released 15+ years ago with one that is current tech? Very few of us G5 owners have the original stock gfx card in use. I have my Radeon 9650 on a shelf as a backup.

    That's some Iraqi 'Ministry Of Propaganda' level stuff there by Trevor. He has stacks of AmigaOnes to sell I suppose, so pushing a sales pitch.
  • »26.08.18 - 16:31
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1985 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Very few of us G5 owners have the original stock gfx card in use. I have my Radeon 9650 on a shelf as a backup.



    Dunno, I upgraded the 9600 in my G5 to a 9650 for the sole purpose of having DualLink DVI and sometimes later I downgraded to a 9000 (not even "Pro") in a G4 with a sidedish of Voodoo.

    Performance difference? Never noticed one.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
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  • »26.08.18 - 16:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1420 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:

    Dunno, I upgraded the 9600 in my G5 to a 9650 for the sole purpose of having DualLink DVI and sometimes later I downgraded to a 9000 (not even "Pro") in a G4 with a sidedish of Voodoo.

    Performance difference? Never noticed one.



    Fair enough. It's all about what works for them. Actually a G4 with Radeon 8500 does make the best setup possible for legacy software. My interest in running legacy software on MorphOS has waned in recent years. Now that I have an Amiga 500 with Vampire, I have even less concern for it.

    Overall, there is very little out there that would need more than a 9650 outside of benchmarks and bragging rights on either side of the fence. Why OS4 systems ever shipped with Radeon R9s that aren't anywhere near being fully supported I will never understand.
  • »26.08.18 - 18:07
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 257 from 2015/6/30
    @redrumloa

    Its been down to what cards dealers can get new in lots of 5 or so and upwards.
    I don't think that any R9 card configurations were the basic offering but an extra .
    R7-250X's may have been the top basic option.
    There has also not been any 3D benchmarks to see which card give a decent level of performance.

    Based on current Radeon SI cards that are available new in quantities you have following models for example

    Decent Performance
    X5000/20 Spencer Game : ASUS R7-250 (Cape Verde) = 52-55fps


    Basic Performance
    X5000/20 Spencer Game : ASUS R7-240 (Oland) = 22-23fps

    I thing that Amiga on the Lake have the following model. I am not sure of performance
    but DDR3 cards have lower performance

    HD7750 DDR3 Model

    [ Edited by Spectre660 26.08.2018 - 15:08 ]
  • »26.08.18 - 19:05
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11052 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Very few of us G5 owners have the original stock gfx card in use.

    Has there been a survey that I missed?
  • »26.08.18 - 23:25
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 755 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Why OS4 systems ever shipped with Radeon R9s that aren't anywhere near being fully supported I will never understand.


    Especially from a community that continues to pretend that "hardware isn't everything". Yet turn your back and they go run out and buy the highest end card they can get away with. A 2003-era Radeon 9000 like I had in my Peg-1 will still easily run almost everything available.

    I have an R9 390X. It was a stupid purchase even for a Windows machine. It's insane, drawing more wattage than the rest of the i7 computer through two CPU-grade power leads and blowing it all out with three fans. I had to add a 1000W PSU to feed (my previous 800W one couldn't output enough on two rails!) and several more case fans to stop its massive heat outwash overheating the CPU. It runs almost everything in ultra mode and anything older that 2016 in 4K easily. It is not a card for pottering around watching YouTube videos.

    Not all R9 cards are so impractical, but even so, to cram this kind of monster into a system where it can't even run a video in 1080p and have to use VGA or DVI output is the height of stupidity.

    [ Edited by KennyR 27.08.2018 - 01:30 ]
  • »27.08.18 - 01:26
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 257 from 2015/6/30
    Get up to speed before you make these sweeping and incorrct statements.
    HDMI output works and certain codec 1080p video's work.

    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    [Not all R9 cards are so impractical, but even so, to cram this kind of monster into a system where it can't even run a video in 1080p and have to use VGA or DVI output is the height of stupidity.




    [ Edited by Spectre660 26.08.2018 - 22:29 ]
  • »27.08.18 - 02:26
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    outrun1978
    Posts: 28 from 2018/7/8
    Yep have to agree with Spectre660 here, my Radeon HD7750 which I was using previously on my X5000 can handle some 1080p playback and one thing I do miss when using MorphOS is HDMI output which OS4 handles with no problem and has been doing with a number of cards when I had my Sam 460 previously.

    The current Radeon X1650 Pro that I am using at the moment so I can use MorphOS on the X5000 is unable to display even DVI output in MorphOS so am stuck with VGA. Under OS 4 on the same card the DVI output works but under MorphOS the system hangs.
  • »27.08.18 - 08:14
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 755 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Get up to speed before you make these sweeping and incorrct statements.
    HDMI output works and certain codec 1080p video's work.


    What use is HDMI on an R9? They're meant for 4k, and HDMI can only handle it at 15 Hz. With those cards you go DisplayPort or you go for a different card.
  • »27.08.18 - 16:10
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 257 from 2015/6/30
    You need to structure your points to be a bit clearer .
    I am using HDMI on a an R9-270X at 1080p and it works and is useful for me.
    Some people find it fun to attempt to push the so called limits.
    Some people seem to have a kind of "New hardware Phobia" .



    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Get up to speed before you make these sweeping and incorrct statements.
    HDMI output works and certain codec 1080p video's work.


    What use is HDMI on an R9? They're meant for 4k, and HDMI can only handle it at 15 Hz. With those cards you go DisplayPort or you go for a different card.


  • »27.08.18 - 19:14
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 462 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Especially from a community that continues to pretend that "hardware isn't everything". Yet turn your back and they go run out and buy the highest end card they can get away with. A 2003-era Radeon 9000 like I had in my Peg-1 will still easily run almost everything available.



    Hardware is everything. My problem is - AmigaOS does not use it (driver problem). My x1000 with SSD, Radeon 7770 1Ghz, 2GB DDR5, 2x2 MB DDR2 and Sound Blaster 5.1 performs like a different machine once its on modern Linux PPC. Internet is way faster via inbuild ethernet, CPU and disk and memory performance doubles amd RAM and gfx card are fully used (OK gfx card not so much due to infamous bug, but it was the case with original XFX Radeon HD 6870)

    Problem is that it turned out that any NG Amiga investment - be it faster gfx card, more RAM or gfx, simply (under AmigaOS) does not translate to performance increase. Only real "fly away" was an SSD.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
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  • »27.08.18 - 19:49
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1234 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Some people find it fun to attempt to push the so called limits.

    Well, there are different approaches to "pushing limits".

    Some people put a brand new Porsche engine in a tractor to make it go 1kph faster. Others tweak the original "old" tractor engine to make it go 1kph faster.

    You appear to be a big fan of the first approach.

    Quote:

    Some people seem to have a kind of "New hardware Phobia".

    That sounds like a misperception.

    Just because people do not happen to agree with your "new hardware euphoria", that does not mean they reject new hardware.

    In fact, I have seen far more people belittle the "old" hardware that MorphOS runs on. But, as Kenny and others have attempted to explain, there is no intrinsic end user value in just using a "modern" graphics card that has a release date within a specific range.

    That is, unless you have drivers that do enable a substantial (!) performance gain that is adequate relative to the improved hardware specifications or at least offer much more complex visual fidelity in 3d software. Both points have not been met at this stage. Maybe that will change. We will see. But until that happens, I really do not see what you could possibly be so excited about.
  • »27.08.18 - 20:24
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 257 from 2015/6/30
    @ASiegel

    The context of AmigaOS 4.1 3D is in a specific range (Radeon R7-240 - Radeon HD7730 - Radeon RX580) so yes there is a substantial performance gain in that range.
    If you use a range outside of this then that is another issue.


    I find it easier to source the new Porche engines to put in the new ish tractor than to find old tractor engines that survive to be tweaked .
    Also the effort to support the old engines failed (Warp3D for Evergreen)so there was never any chance to tweak.
    The hedged option (Warp3D for SI) bore fruit and has continued to grow (Warp3DNova).

    Sure I am excited .
    I am more vocal though because of KennyR's and other's style of painting with what I consider to be too wide a brush .
  • »27.08.18 - 21:34
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1234 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    @ASiegel

    The context of AmigaOS 4.1 3D is in a specific range (Radeon R7-240 - Radeon HD7730 - Radeon RX580) so yes there is a substantial performance gain in that range.
    If you use a range outside of this then that is another issue.

    You are visiting a MorphOS community website. This OS and its drivers are the point of reference for people who frequent this website.

    Quote:

    I find it easier to source the new Porche engines to put in the new ish tractor than to find old tractor engines that survive to be tweaked.

    Sure, if money is no concern, then buying a brand new Porsche engine is trivial. When you are rich, life is easy. If, however, your budget is restricted, that is a different story altogether.

    Personally, I do not believe that telling people how bright that Porsche engine shines in the sunlight because it is so new is going to convince anybody to spend money on both a new tractor and a new engine that they do not have or could not possibly justify spending unless the cost / performance ratio was at least slightly comparable to their existing systems.

    Quote:

    Sure I am excited. I am more vocal though because of KennyR's and other's style of painting with what I consider to be too wide a brush .

    You were pretty vocal before Kenny showed up.

    Not everybody gets excited by how recent the manufacturing date on one of their computer's components is. That is actually normal, not a phobia.
  • »28.08.18 - 08:20
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