MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 817 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:

    I don't think it's worth debating, as the chances of MorphOS running on X5000 are practically nil, so nobody's going to be buying that stuff and not using it.

    Just say a little bird told me.


    Hmm... If there is truth to that statement then the MorphOS Team should issue a statement quickly, so people like Jim aren't suckered into buying an X5000 or Cyrus board early which will not see a MorphOS release.



    I don't think the responsibility rests with the MorphOS team to stop people buying hardware that, for one reason or another, won't support an official MorphOS release. It's up to people like Jim to wait until there is an official MorphOS release on it before buying one.

    $1500 is a lot of money to waste on a leap of faith, and "It won't run the OS I wanted" isn't a valid warranty claim, especially as the seller make absolutely no claims as to running it.

    So, people have figured out that there is no practical reason why MorphOS wouldn't run on X5000, it clearly does. There isn't a legal leg to stand on not running MorphOS on X5000, as even in 2016 you can still run anything you want on a computer. Or, wait, can you? I have a theory. Let's see how it pans out.
  • »10.10.16 - 22:37
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
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    This post was edited by a moderator.

    Reason for editing: A 120+ word comment filled with personal insults towards another forum member is completely unacceptable. The F-word, which was later edited by the author himself, was nowhere near being as offending as any of the other content. (ASiegel)

    The "f-word" was never used.
    If Andre wants to pretend that it was, that's his concern (since the only time I have ever used that word in relation to this forum was in a direct PM to Andre himself).

    But as far as the other content, I stand by it.

    Clearly the poster has under the impression that he has secret information no one else has, and that would appear to be delusional.

    So, why doesn't he put up or shut up?

    [ Edited by Jim 11.10.2016 - 05:51 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.10.16 - 23:18
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    I don't think the responsibility rests with the MorphOS team to stop people buying hardware that, for one reason or another, won't support an official MorphOS release. It's up to people like Jim to wait until there is an official MorphOS release on it before buying one.



    Yes and no. Technically yes, but if things went sour and a hardware partner is either acting in bad faith or for some other reason will block support, it would behoove them to let their userbase know. The MOS team has been pretty open that the X5000/Cyrus is a target platform. If this has changed, don't drive sales to the competition.
  • »11.10.16 - 02:58
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1342 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:

    So, people have figured out that there is no practical reason why MorphOS wouldn't run on X5000, it clearly does. There isn't a legal leg to stand on not running MorphOS on X5000, as even in 2016 you can still run anything you want on a computer. Or, wait, can you? I have a theory. Let's see how it pans out.

    Please note that MorphOS was publicly demonstrated running on an A-Eon X5000 at the Amiga 30 event in Neuss, Germany. Where do you think the developers got the required development hardware from more than a year before retail deliveries finally started?
  • »11.10.16 - 06:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    I was there at Neuss, I can confirm that there was indeed a working beta of MorphOS running on a X5000 there. The developers there confirmed it as well.

    I took a picture of it and uploaded it to Wikimedia.

    MorphOS_beta_on_X5000.jpg

    Is this proof enough?
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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    My MorphOS blog
  • »11.10.16 - 07:27
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 817 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:

    So, people have figured out that there is no practical reason why MorphOS wouldn't run on X5000, it clearly does. There isn't a legal leg to stand on not running MorphOS on X5000, as even in 2016 you can still run anything you want on a computer. Or, wait, can you? I have a theory. Let's see how it pans out.

    Please note that MorphOS was publicly demonstrated running on an A-Eon X5000 at the Amiga 30 event in Neuss, Germany. Where do you think the developers got the required development hardware from more than a year before retail deliveries finally started?


    Nobody is denying that MorphOS *runs* on the X5000. Whether or not it runs optimally or requires invalidation of warranty, is another matter. And if it does not, there will be no official release of MorphOS.

    [ Edited by KennyR 11.10.2016 - 09:55 ]
  • »11.10.16 - 07:53
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    KennyR
    Posts: 817 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    This post was edited by a moderator.

    Reason for editing: A 120+ word comment filled with personal insults towards another forum member is completely unacceptable. The F-word, which was later edited by the author himself, was nowhere near being as offending as any of the other content. (ASiegel)


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  • »11.10.16 - 07:56
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Say, you didn't have to make outside-warranty alterations to the board or anything did you?


    The only thing I did to the motherboard was exchanging cpu fan as I have the oldest revision with quite crap and noisy fan, other than that - nothing. And please notice that this fan exchange wasn't required to get MorphOS running on my Cyrus+
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »11.10.16 - 08:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11631 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Whether or not it runs optimally or requires invalidation of warranty, is another matter.

    As for running optimally, I trust the development and optimization abilities of the MorphOS team. Regarding "invalidation of warranty", what do you mean here?

    > And if it does not, there will be no official release of MorphOS.

    Yes, quality standards of the MorphOS team are high, so optimal running will be pretty much prerequisite for release. But I don't see how there won't be an official MorphOS release if it doesn't require "invalidation of warranty" (whatever that should mean).
  • »11.10.16 - 08:29
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  • rob
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    rob
    Posts: 135 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:

    So, people have figured out that there is no practical reason why MorphOS wouldn't run on X5000, it clearly does. There isn't a legal leg to stand on not running MorphOS on X5000, as even in 2016 you can still run anything you want on a computer. Or, wait, can you? I have a theory. Let's see how it pans out.

    Please note that MorphOS was publicly demonstrated running on an A-Eon X5000 at the Amiga 30 event in Neuss, Germany. Where do you think the developers got the required development hardware from more than a year before retail deliveries finally started?


    Nobody is denying that MorphOS *runs* on the X5000. Whether or not it runs optimally or requires invalidation of warranty, is another matter. And if it does not, there will be no official release of MorphOS.


    How could you possibly have to void the warranty by in order to run MorphOS on the X5000?
  • »11.10.16 - 08:29
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
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    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    This post was edited by a moderator.

    Reason for editing: A 120+ word comment filled with personal insults towards another forum member is completely unacceptable. The F-word, which was later edited by the author himself, was nowhere near being as offending as any of the other content. (ASiegel)


    http://www.jordanpfowler.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Prep-H.jpg


    Do you think that's clever?

    https://westofpersia.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/walnuts.jpg
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »11.10.16 - 08:49
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1342 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    http://www.jordanpfowler.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Prep-H.jpg

    No good deed goes unpunished.
  • »11.10.16 - 09:23
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2031 from 2003/6/4
    It's easy: Probably MorphOS will get released for the X5000 as it is announced, tested and demoed. But MorpOS team _always_ said: Don't buy dedicated hardware before MorphOS got really released for it. It's just to be on the safe side. Or if you buy now and a release gets delayd, canceled or will not work as expected: Don't complain then, you've been warned.
    I personally expect a working release in the not too distant future though. But warnings should always be considered.
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  • »11.10.16 - 09:48
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    KennyR
    Posts: 817 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:

    So, people have figured out that there is no practical reason why MorphOS wouldn't run on X5000, it clearly does. There isn't a legal leg to stand on not running MorphOS on X5000, as even in 2016 you can still run anything you want on a computer. Or, wait, can you? I have a theory. Let's see how it pans out.

    Please note that MorphOS was publicly demonstrated running on an A-Eon X5000 at the Amiga 30 event in Neuss, Germany. Where do you think the developers got the required development hardware from more than a year before retail deliveries finally started?


    Nobody is denying that MorphOS *runs* on the X5000. Whether or not it runs optimally or requires invalidation of warranty, is another matter. And if it does not, there will be no official release of MorphOS.


    How could you possibly have to void the warranty by in order to run MorphOS on the X5000?


    Didn't you have a ppc accelerator? Reflashing its firmware with an unsupported one would have invalidated its warranty.

    People keep accusing me of raking up the past but it's really the repeating cycles that rake up me.
  • »11.10.16 - 11:25
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    Kronos
    Posts: 2072 from 2003/2/24
    Kenny is hard trying his own China-syndrom.....
  • »11.10.16 - 12:07
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    http://www.jordanpfowler.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Prep-H.jpg

    No good deed goes unpunished.



    Hopefully I will get to meet you in person one day Andre.

    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Kenny is hard trying his own China-syndrom.....


    But Andre thinks I ought to remain civil about his bizarre behavior.

    [ Edited by Jim 11.10.2016 - 10:25 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »11.10.16 - 13:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11631 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > it's really the repeating cycles that rake up me.

    What's the repeating cycle in MorphOS supporting the X5000?
  • »11.10.16 - 13:48
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 817 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > it's really the repeating cycles that rake up me.

    What's the repeating cycle in MorphOS supporting the X5000?


    One side refusing to address showstopping minor changes or bugs, and the other side accusing them of doing it on purpose. Or, one side really doing it on purpose.
  • »11.10.16 - 14:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11631 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> What's the repeating cycle in MorphOS supporting the X5000?

    > One side refusing to address showstopping minor changes or bugs, and the other side
    > accusing them of doing it on purpose. Or, one side really doing it on purpose.

    Regarding MorphOS on X5000, I see nobody refusing to do anything and nobody accusing anybody of anything (except you, that is). Can you be more specific?
  • »11.10.16 - 15:39
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 817 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> What's the repeating cycle in MorphOS supporting the X5000?

    > One side refusing to address showstopping minor changes or bugs, and the other side
    > accusing them of doing it on purpose. Or, one side really doing it on purpose.

    Regarding MorphOS on X5000, I see nobody refusing to do anything and nobody accusing anybody of anything (except you, that is). Can you be more specific?


    I think the official morphos team should be your source of reliable information. The rumours I've heard shouldn't be considered authoritative, and the only reason I insist in annoying Jim with them is because I fear another fallout between sides that'll catch users in the middle. It's scary that people are running into purchase without even waiting for official support.

    My suspicion is it's something to do with firmware. But that's totally a guess, based on my memories of similar things happening when Linux kernel hackers asked for source for the A1 firmware or help to find bugs. They got neither. It didn't stop Linux running on A1, but...
  • »11.10.16 - 16:07
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
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    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> What's the repeating cycle in MorphOS supporting the X5000?

    > One side refusing to address showstopping minor changes or bugs, and the other side
    > accusing them of doing it on purpose. Or, one side really doing it on purpose.

    Regarding MorphOS on X5000, I see nobody refusing to do anything and nobody accusing anybody of anything (except you, that is). Can you be more specific?


    I think the official morphos team should be your source of reliable information. The rumours I've heard shouldn't be considered authoritative, and the only reason I insist in annoying Jim with them is because I fear another fallout between sides that'll catch users in the middle. It's scary that people are running into purchase without even waiting for official support.

    My suspicion is it's something to do with firmware. But that's totally a guess, based on my memories of similar things happening when Linux kernel hackers asked for source for the A1 firmware or help to find bugs. They got neither. It didn't stop Linux running on A1, but...


    I appreciate the consideration Kenny, and I can be pretty abrasive (as both Andre and Trevor Dickenson would tell you), but I've been in contact with Trevor fairly recently, he knows what I want to use the system for.
    I don't think he'd encourage me to buy something I couldn't use.

    But I do know the history of what your referring to (or think I do, as probably does Andreas).
    I assume your referring to the controversy over PowerUP vs WarpUp/WarpOS.

    The entities involved in that are long gone, and I'd hope that that part of their legacy hasn't been retained by those who carry on development.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »11.10.16 - 17:02
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11631 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> that's totally a guess, based on my memories of similar things happening
    >> when Linux kernel hackers asked for source for the A1 firmware or help
    >> to find bugs. They got neither. It didn't stop Linux running on A1, but...

    > I assume your referring to the controversy over PowerUP vs WarpUp/WarpOS.

    I guess "A1" refers to the Eyetech AmigaOne SE/XE and the Micro-A1, not the PowerUP boards.
  • »11.10.16 - 17:36
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
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    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> that's totally a guess, based on my memories of similar things happening
    >> when Linux kernel hackers asked for source for the A1 firmware or help
    >> to find bugs. They got neither. It didn't stop Linux running on A1, but...

    > I assume your referring to the controversy over PowerUP vs WarpUp/WarpOS.

    I guess "A1" refers to the Eyetech AmigaOne SE/XE and the Micro-A1, not the PowerUP boards.


    Ah, better guess, but then we had nothing to do with that.
    And they seem to support Linux now.

    This whole idea hinges on the theory that there is so much animosity that they would try to prevent alternative OS' from running on the hardware.
    Is Acube assisting in the development of the X5000 firmware?
    It might have to involve the collusion of four different companies, Varysis, A-eon, Acube, and Hyperion.

    Still seems far fetched, but considering the history of that last firm...
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »11.10.16 - 17:47
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  • Butterfly
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    eliyahu
    Posts: 67 from 2011/4/21
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> that's totally a guess, based on my memories of similar things happening
    >> when Linux kernel hackers asked for source for the A1 firmware or help
    >> to find bugs. They got neither. It didn't stop Linux running on A1, but...

    > I assume your referring to the controversy over PowerUP vs WarpUp/WarpOS.

    I guess "A1" refers to the Eyetech AmigaOne SE/XE and the Micro-A1, not the PowerUP boards.


    Ah, better guess, but then we had nothing to do with that.
    And they seem to support Linux now.

    This whole idea hinges on the theory that there is so much animosity that they would try to prevent alternative OS' from running on the hardware.
    Is Acube assisting in the development of the X5000 firmware?
    It might have to involve the collusion of four different companies, Varysis, A-eon, Acube, and Hyperion.

    Still seems far fetched, but considering the history of that last firm...

    you guys can relax. there is no such restriction. and by the way, the idea that A-EON would ever do anything remotely like that is nonsense on stilts. their interest is selling hardware. they want any and every platform possible running on it.

    -- eliyahu
  • »11.10.16 - 17:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    eliyahu wrote:
    you guys can relax. there is no such restriction. and by the way, the idea that A-EON would ever do anything remotely like that is nonsense on stilts. their interest is selling hardware. they want any and every platform possible running on it.



    (pure speculation below)

    I'm sure A-Eonkit would indeed want to sell every last board they possibly can. Chances are though that HYPErion are the ones writing the firmware. The original Teron boards were re-flashed with custom HYPErion firmware to make them "AmigaOne" boards. This firmware supposed included anti-piracy features so Teron boards without the boing sticker markup couldn't run OS4. They did this because Teron evaluation boards could be purchased for almost 50% less than an AmigaOne branded board.

    If HYPErion are doing the firmware for the X5000, what's to say they don't create "features" that break MorphOS or at least making porting more difficult?

    (speculation mode off)
  • »11.10.16 - 18:09
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