MorphZone

MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?

redrumloa

# 1
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69083

This is interesting. I'm not sure if I personally think it is a good idea or not, but I'm not part of the MorphOS Team Should we read more into this than what is on the surface? I can't imagine HYPErion would be too thrilled with the MorphOS team getting a development board to port MorphOS.

On the plus side, until this point I had absolutely no interest in the X5000. Now if true, I have at least a curiosity.

On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?

Either way, I'm not complaining. I have very few complaints about MorphOS. The value I've had for my keyfiles has been impressive. While I'd probably prefer a move to X64, I have enough trust in the MorphOS Team to accept the moves they make.

So here is the one main question. How would the X5000 compare to a PowerMac G5? Let's say a fully loaded G5 2.3Ghz. Will it beat it in 3d gaming? Converting video? To date the Mac G5 is king of the PPC hill, with the Mac G4 the queen of the hill. Is the X5000 good enough to dethrone either?
»12.04.15 - 01:53

jPV

# 2
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2101 from 2003/2/24

From: po-RNO

Quote:

redrumloa wrote:

On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?

I myself don't like the idea to put resources to the architecture switch yet, because I'd imagine it would cause a pretty long feature freeze generally to the OS itself, and we still have life in PPC.

If new PPC support doesn't take too much from the general improvements, why not then, but otherwise I'd like to see some improvements and maturing for a while still :)
The wiki based MorphOS Library - Your starting point for MorphOS
jPV's MorphOS pages
»12.04.15 - 07:33

Cego

# 3
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 733 from 2006/5/28

From: Germany

maybe the OS4 customers are the only ones left who you could also call potential morphos clients. Maybe thats the only strategy left for the team to raise their sold licenses.
Actually, that machine will be just too overpriced and probably crippled in some way just like the X1000. The Team was against overpriced hardware and now they are porting their system to those machines...

A port to Intel Macs would be better IMO.
Pegasos II G4 @1.0GHz, 1GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9200Pro, 240GB SSD+160GB HD, MorphOS 3.18, AmigaOS4.1 FE, Debian 8
»12.04.15 - 07:44

pampers

# 4
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26

From: Tczew, Poland

Quote:

A port to Intel Macs would be better IMO.

Why porting to Intel Macs which are overprices because they have an apple logo is a good idea for you? I don't even mention any "legal" reasons, if there are any.
MorphOS 3.x
»12.04.15 - 08:58

Kronos

# 5
Moderator

Posts: 2329 from 2003/2/24

@pampers

If porting to x86 is actually planned it would make good sense to choose HW that will still be easily available and identifyble by the time they are actually supported in the public ISO (which can be anything from 1 to 3 years after such a port had been started).

It has sofar also been a fact that (Intel-)Macs either show catastropic fault early on or last allmost forever, which is also good as we would be most likely be buying 2nd hand anyways.
»12.04.15 - 10:19

pampers

# 6
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26

From: Tczew, Poland

@Kronos

I'm sure there is a plenty of different hw available in huge quantities if you ever will decide to go x86 route. But even if you will go for Intel Macs I will be the one of the first one buying it anyway ;)
MorphOS 3.x
»12.04.15 - 10:29

bigfoot

# 7
MorphOS Developer

Posts: 510 from 2003/4/11

Quote:

redrumloa wrote:

On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?

Most of the time spent is being sunk into drivers for newer hardware (f.ex. newer Radeons). While getting the Sam460 port took a bit of ironing out some Quark details, getting MorphOS to boot on the X5000 afterwards took merely 2 days.

Quote:

Kronos wrote:
@pampers

If porting to x86 is actually planned it would make good sense to choose HW that will still be easily available and identifyble by the time they are actually supported in the public ISO (which can be anything from 1 to 3 years after such a port had been started).

I've mentioned it before, but I'll happily mention it again: When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs. AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense. When such a time does come, expect us to support one desktop motherboard (with one family of CPUs and GPUs) and one laptop. We'll of course make sure it's hardware that's actually available one way or another.
I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
»12.04.15 - 11:00

vox

# 8
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 580 from 2003/11/24

From: Belgrade

Quote:

Cego wrote:
maybe the OS4 customers are the only ones left who you could also call potential morphos clients. Maybe thats the only strategy left for the team to raise their sold licenses.
Actually, that machine will be just too overpriced and probably crippled in some way just like the X1000. The Team was against overpriced hardware and now they are porting their system to those machines...

A port to Intel Macs would be better IMO.

... as well as SAM460/(X1000)/X5000 is likely to be last PPC hardware avail. So before port to x86 is done, it is only way to go.

Surely, it gives an opportunity (highly unlikely yet) MorphOS users to buy these if they desire, but its more other way around - OS4 customer base gets to try MorphOS.

Great and fair deal would be to offer systems with both licenses OR choice of MorphOS or AmigaOS 4 as desired (instead of must have OS4 as it has been so far). That would be fair competition.

Biggest win win would be opportunity to have MorphOS sold with new systems in Amiga shops as well as on MorphOS websites - first time after Efika and Pegasos II days.

I would also like to see x1000 port after x5000 is done, since I doubt I will be able to buy x5000 anytime soon.
------------------------------------------
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Lame PC with AmiKit XE
YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
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»12.04.15 - 11:01

Yasu

# 9
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22

From: Stockholm, Sweden

Don't forget all the work it implies. There is no point of porting it to X86 or 64 bit ARM unless you remove all the API limitations too. Like 32 bit, single core, no modern memory protection etc. That also means a lot of work. If you just port MorphOS "as is" to X86 or ARM, you would not gain much power but lose all the software we have.

It all comes down to how much work needs to be done, and what can be done with the hardware we already have.
AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

My MorphOS blog
»12.04.15 - 11:20

Yasu

# 10
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22

From: Stockholm, Sweden

Quote:

I've mentioned it before, but I'll happily mention it again: When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs. AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense. When such a time does come, expect us to support one desktop motherboard (with one family of CPUs and GPUs) and one laptop. We'll of course make sure it's hardware that's actually available one way or another.

Wait, what? "When"? Does this mean you decided the roadmap?
AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

My MorphOS blog
»12.04.15 - 11:23

Templario

# 11
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 544 from 2012/4/28

Quote:

redrumloa escribi�:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69083

This is interesting. I'm not sure if I personally think it is a good idea or not, but I'm not part of the MorphOS Team Should we read more into this than what is on the surface? I can't imagine HYPErion would be too thrilled with the MorphOS team getting a development board to port MorphOS.

On the plus side, until this point I had absolutely no interest in the X5000. Now if true, I have at least a curiosity.

On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?

Either way, I'm not complaining. I have very few complaints about MorphOS. The value I've had for my keyfiles has been impressive. While I'd probably prefer a move to X64, I have enough trust in the MorphOS Team to accept the moves they make.

So here is the one main question. How would the X5000 compare to a PowerMac G5? Let's say a fully loaded G5 2.3Ghz. Will it beat it in 3d gaming? Converting video? To date the Mac G5 is king of the PPC hill, with the Mac G4 the queen of the hill. Is the X5000 good enough to dethrone either?

Well, a good OS for this machine
»12.04.15 - 11:35

Andreas_Wolf

# 12
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12171 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> I don't even mention any "legal" reasons, if there are any.

There aren't.
»12.04.15 - 12:16

Andreas_Wolf

# 13
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12171 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs.
> AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense.

I wonder whether your colleague geit got this memo ;-)
»12.04.15 - 12:25

Andreas_Wolf

# 14
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12171 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> opportunity to have MorphOS sold with new systems in Amiga shops as well
> as on MorphOS websites - first time after Efika and Pegasos II days.

You could never buy any hardware on the MorphOS website. And I can't remember the Efika 5200B being sold with MorphOS keyfile in Amiga shops.
»12.04.15 - 12:35

eliot

# 15
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 567 from 2004/4/15

But now Vesalia, Alinea and Co can sole Sam, X5000 systems with preinstalled MorphOs.
regards
eliot
»12.04.15 - 12:42

In_Correct

# 16
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14

From: DFW, TX, USA

Quote:

redrumloa wrote:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69083

This is interesting. I'm not sure if I personally think it is a good idea or not, but I'm not part of the MorphOS Team Should we read more into this than what is on the surface? I can't imagine HYPErion would be too thrilled with the MorphOS team getting a development board to port MorphOS.

On the plus side, until this point I had absolutely no interest in the X5000. Now if true, I have at least a curiosity.

On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?

Either way, I'm not complaining. I have very few complaints about MorphOS. The value I've had for my keyfiles has been impressive. While I'd probably prefer a move to X64, I have enough trust in the MorphOS Team to accept the moves they make.

So here is the one main question. How would the X5000 compare to a PowerMac G5? Let's say a fully loaded G5 2.3Ghz. Will it beat it in 3d gaming? Converting video? To date the Mac G5 is king of the PPC hill, with the Mac G4 the queen of the hill. Is the X5000 good enough to dethrone either?

No. I still think MorphOS should fully support the multi core processings and 64 bit versions of the PPC Apple computers and the PPC Aeon computers. And even adding memory protection.

Why?
1. It makes little sense to only partially support a computer.
2. If MorphOS fully supports these PPC computers, then they can accomplish something that AmigaOS could not accomplish!
3. Aeon aCube can sell more computers if a fully functioning and sophisticated such as MorphOS was available for it. Right now available options for AEON aCube are only the silly operating systems.

I am not against a X86 64 computer port, (while still prefer ARM MIPS AMD) but please enable full support for the PowerPC computers and retain support for PowerPC computers until AmigaOS just goes away. Thanks.

[ Edited by In_Correct 13.04.2015 - 02:25 ]
I Support Quark Microkernel.
»12.04.15 - 12:45

In_Correct

# 17
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14

From: DFW, TX, USA

Quote:

bigfoot wrote:
Quote:

redrumloa wrote:

On the negative side, I can't help but wonder if this port to yet another platform is taking resources away from general improvements or MorphOS and/or targeting a new CPU such as X64. I thought the Sam460 port was a head scratcher but accepted it for a "new" hardware option. Now the X5000 too? Woudn't it be better to move off the PPC for good?

Most of the time spent is being sunk into drivers for newer hardware (f.ex. newer Radeons). While getting the Sam460 port took a bit of ironing out some Quark details, getting MorphOS to boot on the X5000 afterwards took merely 2 days.

Quote:

Kronos wrote:
@pampers

If porting to x86 is actually planned it would make good sense to choose HW that will still be easily available and identifyble by the time they are actually supported in the public ISO (which can be anything from 1 to 3 years after such a port had been started).

I've mentioned it before, but I'll happily mention it again: When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs. AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense. When such a time does come, expect us to support one desktop motherboard (with one family of CPUs and GPUs) and one laptop. We'll of course make sure it's hardware that's actually available one way or another.

I appreciate that MorphOS is considering the AMD Processors.

Also I request that your laptop supporting plans be supporting a laptop with a numeric keypad. Example: I found a HP Sleekbook (with AMD processor) with a keyboard containing the numeric keypad and I was amazed laptops finally contain numeric keypads. Thanks.

And thank you for not supporting the silly X86 Apple.
I Support Quark Microkernel.
»12.04.15 - 12:53

Andreas_Wolf

# 18
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12171 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> now Vesalia, Alinea and Co can sole Sam, X5000 systems with preinstalled MorphOs.

Now? That was fast, man ;-)
»12.04.15 - 13:21

Andreas_Wolf

# 19
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12171 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> I am not against a X86 64 computer port, (while still prefer ARM MIPS AMD)

AMD's CPUs implement x86-64.
»12.04.15 - 13:45

Andreas_Wolf

# 20
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12171 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

>> When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs.
>> AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense.

> I appreciate that MorphOS is considering the AMD Processors. :-P

The term "AMD64 Macs" should give away that it's not necessarily about AMD processors but also about Intel (and Via) processors implementing AMD64 aka Intel 64 aka x86-64 aka x64 aka...
»12.04.15 - 13:50

In_Correct

# 21
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14

From: DFW, TX, USA

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
>> When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs.
>> AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense.

> I appreciate that MorphOS is considering the AMD Processors.

The term "AMD64 Macs" should give away that it's not necessarily about AMD processors but also about Intel (and Via) processors imlementing AMD64 aka Intel 64 aka x86-64 aka x64 aka...

AMD would seem to add uniqueness to MorphOS uniqueness which makes sense to use AMD. I recommend it despite AMD is an X86 processor.

I was really hoping that "AMD64 Macs" was a typo.

What is Via?
I Support Quark Microkernel.
»12.04.15 - 15:51

Andreas_Wolf

# 22
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12171 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> What is Via?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Nano
»12.04.15 - 16:07

discreetfx

# 23
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 392 from 2003/7/26

From: Chicago, IL

Too bad MorphOS won't support Intel Macs at some point in the future. I just happen to have a few of those laying around.
DiscreetFX
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»12.04.15 - 17:32

zukow

# 24
MorphOS Developer

Posts: 645 from 2005/2/9

From: Poland

I have two Amstrads and C=128DCR, morphos should support them too !!!11!111111
»12.04.15 - 18:29

redrumloa

# 25
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13

Quote:

zukow wrote:
I have two Amstrads and C=128DCR, morphos should support them too !!!11!111111

128D? Now we're talking
»12.04.15 - 18:47