@ acepeg - I'd agree with you, that sensible low end (i.e. low cost) prices are the way, I believe, for many users, and high performance (i.e. expensive) systems are only intended for developers, where necessary, for keeping compiling/development times to a minimum.

Well, I'm typing this on a cheap Galaxy J7 Refine.
But if I compare the price of a Blackbird system to the Ryzen 3000 series I intend to build, the prices aren't that too far apart.

First Blackbird's are delivered:

https://twitter.com/justinrwlynn/status/1137659685241147392

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And already reviewed: https://www.talospace.com/

> IBM POWER9 CPU (4-Core) $375.00

July saw a 16% price increase to US$436.25 (bigger variants have been increased in price 7...16%, the bigger the CPU the lower the relative increase).
Likewise, the Blackbird mainboard price was increased by 10.5% to US$1105.

> July saw a 16% price increase to US$436.25 (bigger variants have been increased
> in price 7...16%, the bigger the CPU the lower the relative increase).

POWER9 available in new DD2.3 stepping with ultravisor functionality and hardware watchpoint support. Price has been increased over DD2.2 stepping by 13...20%, the bigger the CPU the lower the relative increase.

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I'm really surprised that you haven't already purchased a Blackbird system for yourself Jim. With all your well known preference for the Power architecture and support for keeping an up to date fork of MorphOS for PPC, even after it is ported to (or rewritten for)the x64 architecture. It's too bad that the price of the Power9 CPU's is going up, but it still appears that the price of a complete Blackbird system is close, if not below the price of an X5000.

If Trevor is really dedicated to moving AmigaOS4 forward in the best way, he should probably ditch making any more new X5000's, sell all the Tabor's he can, and then support porting AmigaOS4 to the Blackbird as the next high end target system. Stop wasting so much money designing custom hardware that has such limited performance, and support Raptor by promoting the Blackbird system. A-Eon should also be supporting the open PPC laptop project (Trevor probably has, and I just haven't been keeping up to date with reading his blog).

Although it would be nice to see MorphOS running on a Blackbird system, the switch to x64 makes far more sense for the users, most of which would never spend the money on such an expensive system. I would not be surprised to see a developer, team member only version, of MorphOS running on a Blackbird system some time in the future, if any of the team members care to purchase a Blackbird system.

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The Talos is a very poor choice if you are restricted to 1 core/CPU.

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Designing an "X6000" for sure makes no sense, but it might make sense to either sell the current X5000 at production cost (same as ditching it and reselling Talos) or do a X5000cr, aka no Xorro, no Amiga-naming or any other BS.

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As I've written elsewhere, at current pace it will be years before porting OS4 could even start (and we all know how long that tends to take) so IMO too little too late.

> A-Eon should also be supporting the open PPC laptop project (Trevor
> probably has, and I just haven't been keeping up to date with reading his blog).

I don't remember anything in his blog about it, and he's not in the public list of 100+ EUR donors.

> I would not be surprised to see a developer, team member only version,
> of MorphOS running on a Blackbird system some time in the future,
> if any of the team members care to purchase a Blackbird system.

There'd be another possibility :-)

>> Trevor [...] should probably ditch making any more new X5000's,
>> sell all the Tabor's he can, and then support porting AmigaOS4
>> to the Blackbird as the next high end target system.

> The Talos is a very poor choice if you are restricted to 1 core/CPU.

That's why amigadave proposed the Blackbird, not the Talos ;-) And the Blackbird would be no worse choice than the X5000/40 for running OS4.

> it might make sense to [...] do a X5000cr, aka no Xorro,
> no Amiga-naming or any other BS.

I doubt this would save more than 10%.

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And how many people are running the X5000/40?

As for the X5000(cr) being cheaper, Tabor is supposed to be 400€ and apart from the different SoC I don't see that much essential stuff on the X5000 that would make it 4-5 times expensive.

>> the Blackbird would be no worse choice than the X5000/40 for running OS4.

> And how many people are running the X5000/40?

Probably single-digit as long as it is still not released. Point is that the X5000/40 is an announced platform for OS4, so what would be worse in a 4-core Blackbird with OS4, except for the pending porting work?

> Tabor is supposed to be 400€ and apart from the different SoC I don't see that
> much essential stuff on the X5000 that would make it 4-5 times expensive.

In my opinion, the biggest driver of difference in PCB development/production cost between Cyrus and Tabor boards is the layer count. The QorIQ P5 likely requires an 8-layer board while the QorIQ P1 might do with 4 layers. PCB development/production costs increase overproportionally with increasing layer count. That's why I think that not populating Cyrus' xCORE/Xena and accompanying PCIe/Xorro slot footprints and omitting the "AmigaOne" license wouldn't suffice to take it into Tabor (plus purchase price difference between P5 and P1) price range, not even remotely.
And let's wait for the final Tabor sales price (as opposed to announced early adopter price). Cyrus price might turn out more like 3 times the Tabor price, rather than 4-5 times.

O.k. so I just checked, the P1022 is BGA689 and the P5020 is BGA1295. So almost twice as many connections which might explain the need for an 8layer board.

Still doubt this will add to an >1000€ markup in production.....

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And besides that, the Tabor mini itx is ~39% the size of an X5000. Which should decrease cost of manufactoring.

@bennymee


Wouldn't have a problem with a minITXed X5000cr ;)

Update:

> Raptor seems to be in talks with German Vikings GmbH.
> Update: https://twitter.com/vikingslibre/status/1132724932075503618

Apparently in serious preparation:
https://store.vikings.net/openpower
https://forums.raptorcs.com/index.php/topic,180.msg1334.html#msg1334
https://forums.raptorcs.com/index.php/topic,115.msg1686.html#msg1686


Edit: added another link

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 13.02.2021 - 00:44 ]

Ah, (coming soon), a promise we know very well in Amigaland.

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Nah, "soon" is for noobs. "2 weeks" and "on schedule and rocking" - that is the real and unique Amiga spirit!

> "2 weeks" and "on schedule and rocking" - that is the real and unique Amiga spirit!

When it's done? ;-)

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FUD.

>> https://store.vikings.net/openpower

> Ah, (coming soon), a promise we know very well in Amigaland. :-D

It's there now, and it took just 1½ years :-) So far only Talos II (Lite), no Blackbird.


Edit: added link to press release

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 13.03.2022 - 10:09 ]

Please ?

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On these boards the MorphOS or AmigaOS4.x only not running... flying, but this wil be impossible for the prices and because MorphOS or AmigaOS4.x will haven't support to so many cores and threads, but is a good and beauty dream, our systems on this boards.

> this wil be impossible for the prices

Yes, I guess Blackbird board with 4-core CPU will amount to at least 2500 EUR incl. VAT. That's no bargain for sure.

> and because MorphOS or AmigaOS4.x will haven't support
> to so many cores and threads

MorphOS is being used on quad-G5, and OS4 (and MorphOS?) is being used on X5000/40 (by beta testers). With regard to power consumption, it would be good if unused cores could be switched off or put to sleep. As it stands, MorphOS is not able to do that (and OS4 neither, I guess).


Edit: According to bigfoot, "MorphOS already does power down the unused cores […] since MorphOS 3.10" on the X5000/Cyrus, which includes the X5000/40 with P5040.

Update:

> I guess Blackbird board with 4-core CPU will amount
> to at least 2500 EUR incl. VAT.

Blackbird finally available in the EU:

https://store.vikings.net/en/blackbird-secure-desktop
https://lists.vikings.net/pipermail/newsletter-en/2023-February/000007.html

Including case and 16 GiB RAM, cost is about 4400 EUR incl. VAT, so way more than I estimated a year ago.