@gibs

I dont have any osx on my macmini, in my opinion osx is overvalorated, i just say about hardware (no mention to this mac intel age this compputers are like another pc) 4200 rpm should be fast or not but is not enought, and this is not osx vs morphos.

@Andreas_wolf

I believe you, silent update has a 5200 rpm one, wikipedia fails again.

@Golem yeah, why not ? apple use H264 since the long time ago (osx, ipod, iphone, appletv)

@Fab a video of what ?
talking about slow things, on the deskop (I run 1920x1200) when I move a window, under morphos, it's slow as hell. I think the video driver under morphos is not optimized at all. drag a window in a circle and you'll notice by yourself what I'm talking about.
...And I'm not talking about the windows design that is ugly under morphos. it looks like a rip of a linux window manager. I bet it is one.
Another thing...I have never seen the webkit performing that slow on another OS.

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promises of a very interesting debate coming here... I'll let Fab answer to most of it, i only wanted to mention that playing a 720p video under OSX, whatever the version is simply impossible on the macmini while it works with morphOS.
Now about the "slow gfx driver" try to run OSX without opengl gfx acceleration and you'll get an idea about how OSX is slow, as unusable (you couldn't even drag a window properly).

Interesting debate, indeed. While we can opnly judge MacOS X by what we see from the outside, we have here, of course, people that know EXACTLY what and how MorphOS does things. So let's get technical.
Let's see how a tiny system software, done by half a dozen geniuses as labour of love, faces the product from a multi-million dollar company. I bet MorphOS and its ported and adapted applications can still do a trick or two...

@ gibs

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If you run that type of a resolution on a Mac Mini with 32MB of graphics memory, it will run slow if the enhanced display engine of MorphOS is enabled. You can disable it in the "Screens" preferences or change to a screen mode with only 16bit colour depth.


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That is complete and utter nonsense. The opposite is true. The Ferox skin, which was first introduced 6 years ago, has been imitated by themes for various other operating systems including Linux, AROS, and AmigaOS.

@SoundSquare you were talking about H264, now you're talking about H264 720P...ok it becomes clearer...but if you look at wikipedia, there are 20 or more H264 profiles... Now, let me tell you (and I did it yesterday) I can run a H264 720P on a macmini 1,33Ghz encoded with the AppleTV profile. And yes, it's 720P H264 !!

Why would I run OSX without opengl gfx acceleration ?? Tell me ?

@ASiegel Indeed I have the 32MB version. ok I will try in 16 bits.but from the videos I have seen on youtube (and even with the 1.4 version) the result wasn't smooth... Damned can you remember how an Amiga 68K was runing smooth with a Picasso ?

---

Firefox 1 was also fast, but look now...it is heavier than the others browsers...what I mean is...it's not because morphos is fast at boot that it is better than another OS. At that time, (it's personal) I don't think that Morphos is better than Tiger (OSX 10.4) on a MacMini.
I'm not convinced to put 150? on that OS. It's a bit expensive for what it does.

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just to realise that the morphOS gfx driver is far better than the slow OSX one (2D).

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damned yes. and i still got an amiga68k with picasso, and it's far from being fast like morphOS is (and it's not even drawing the content of the windows).

now about the video stuff, yes you're right when you say that there a tons of formats so it makes it hard to compare, but i saw Fab playing the same video file on the two OSes o nthe same machine and while MorphOS was playing it fine, OSX was struggling a lot.

Just untick "Enhanced Display" for all your screens. They will then use 3 times less video memory and you should get less vram<->fastram swap. Which, I assume, is the reason you feel it's "slow like hell".

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I don't think anyone here would attempt to use such an statement.

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Sure, Apple's operating system does a hell of a lot more things more than MorphOS. But, for those things that both do, I bet that MorphOS does them in a very efficient way.
For example, MacOS X has accelerated Cairo, which MorphOS lacks. Therefore, it's not technically fair to compare behaviours that depend on it.

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There you should take into account different considerations, when comparing a system done by the small MorphOS Team, to the product of the huge Apple.
It's tempting to compare these two systems, now that they both run on the same hardware. But it's not fair to do so for everything. I'm not taking any merits out of Apple's system. But I'm technically sure that MorphOS, for the things it does (more and more each day), works very efficiently. Perhaps more than Apple's system. An individual study such be taken for each case.

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Yes indeed, why not? But... well it seems to struggle here with for example 720p trailers from www.apple.com/trailers on my 1.33 and 1.5GHz minis. Their own specs page certainly seem to indicate higher requirements as well (1.8 GHz PowerMac G5 or 1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo or faster Macintosh computer).

SoundSquare: When I was refering about the picasso I was talking about smoothness...I was not saying that Picasso was able to display 32bits on a Full HD resolution.

@gibs

er, a video of what? I was referring to a test of 720p H264 videos. OSX on mini just can't play them even half as fast as MorphOS with VLC/MPlayer/Quicktime, because of its slow drawing system.

Your statement about UAE is also funny, considering it's slower on osx even when it's running on a more powerful machine. Same for MAME.

And what about webkit, exactly? Try Safari4, i doubt it's different than OWB regarding speed, since it's basically the same engine.

But I can only assume you based your opinion on the sideeffects of the lack of videoram, and you should *really* disable composition on 32MB VRAM machines like said above.

[ Edited by Fab on 2009/12/24 12:56 ]

> My 1,25ghz was stable @ 1,5ghz and was a success. The easier to overclock is
> the 1,33 ghz because you don't have to remove the CPU to access the R52 resistor.

You mean you had to remove the CPU of your 1.25 GHz Mac mini in order to overclock it? Isn't the CPU soldered on mainboard?

>>> its a 4200 rpm on all ppc minis

>> No, Silent Upgrade ones have 5400 RPM HDD.

> I believe you, silent update has a 5200 rpm one

Are you trying to take me for fool? Or is that some kind of strange humour I don't grasp?

> wikipedia fails again.

Not quite:

"The 80 GB drive was a Seagate Momentus 5400.2 ST9808211A, which runs at 5400 rpm with a 8 MB cache."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_mini#October_2005.E2.80.93February_2006

But you're right in that the spec table below that paragraph falsely states 4200 rpm HDD for all Mac mini G4 models. It's a case of the often to be seen problem of inconsistency within one and the same article, due to Wikipedia's open Wiki nature.

@Andreas_Wolf Sorry, I wanted to say the "heatsink" which is also hard to remove.
The incoming WD Scorpio 1T is also a 5200 RPM (not 5400)

@Fab (sorry I'm going to write in french) Tu tournes les choses comme ?a t'arrange. Mplayer, VLC etc ne tiennent pas compte de l'acc?l?ration hardware du mac si acceleration il y a. Quoi qu'il en soit Quicktime s'en sort mieux que les players cit?s ci dessus qui n'utilisent que le cpu (en tout cas sur osx) pour la lecture des videos. Alors si tu dis que Mplayer (MOS) est plus performant que Mplayer (OSX) je veux bien te croire...maintenant quand tu dis que ce n'est pas possible de lire dans un premier temps du H264 sur un macmini puis du H264 en 720P (sans mentionner le profil [bitrate audio/video] alors l?, je dis ?a reste ? voir...
*Je crois me souvenir que mplayer ?tait capable de degrader la video ? la vol?e pour la lire de fa?on convenable. (j'avais lu ?a sur les docs livr?s avec XBMC xbox)
Et pour information, webkit c'est le moteur de safari, chrome, origyn etc (http://webkit.org/)
Pour en revenir a nos moutons, je disais qu'une fois sur le desktop, OSX (quelle que soit la version) est plus fluide et plus jolie, et pourtant je le mets pas en 16 bits.

[ Edited by gibs on 2009/12/24 14:01 ]

@gibs

I'll reply in english for the other readers here.

MPlayer and VLC for OSX also have different video output drivers (including GL one). Not my fault if none of them are fast enough. Quicktime didn't perform any better (it probably would work better with commercial CoreVideo decoder, but that's not my problem). And the video profile doesn't matter: each time OSX was slower. Here are two samples for you if you want:

http://fabportnawak.free.fr/Blade.Runner.avi
http://www.dvdloc8.com/clip.php?movieid=8419&clipid=2

Regarding WebKit, i know where it's used, thanks. :)

And finally, OSX is certainly not smoother than MorphOS, unless you're in a low-vram condition. But we explained how to avoid it earlier. Regarding the look, it's a matter of taste, and it can be changed.

@Fab : "Quicktime didn't perform any better" you're totally wrong.

Story : A friend of mine asked me why he was unable to play a 1080 HD video with his MBP. I asked him to show me. He launched VLC and indeed the result was awfull. So I suggested him to do the same thing with quicktime.
The result was very smooth. then I asked him to launch another HD video. both (at the same time) were smooth. then we have addedh 7 divx SD videos at the same time.


[ Edited by gibs on 2009/12/24 15:16 ]

@gibs

Well, VLC performs a lot worse than MPlayer (because VLC seems to enforce frameskipping so much that it can't even display more than 1 frame :)), and QuickTime is about the same as MPlayer. Happy now?

In any case, QuickTime wasn't smooth at all.

so I am a liar ?

About the graphic acceleration under mac osx : http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1582?viewlocale=fr_FR

About Quicktime Acceleration under mac osx : http://www.presence-pc.com/actualite/quicktime-pure-video-31905/

[ Edited by gibs on 2009/12/24 15:30 ]

And how is it relevant at all for mac mini powerpc users? Does it involve manual soldering of a new h264 chip on the radeon9200 chip or something? :)


[ Edited by Fab on 2009/12/24 15:52 ]

@fab yeah MF !

@all merry xmas !

er, "MF"? What is it supposed to mean?

My Fault ? : )


there's nothing wrong in saying OSX is great, if you like it, i'm happy for you. Now, stop denying the obvious simple fact that on the same machine, with the same software (mplayer), morphOS version is faster. Quicktime is faster? great. Now about the reponsiveness or whatever you call it (smooth window dragging or something) it's also known and obvious that OSX makes use of the gfx card a lot otherwise it would be awfully sluggish. I'm not saying it's a bad thing from apple to do so, but it makes me think that the gfx driver itself must be awfully slow. (funny, i read an article 2 days ago about OSX users complaining about the poor state of the graphics drivers in OSX, even nowadays). Run MorphOS without the 3D layers and you still have a fast and responsive system. Period.
Last exercise, make sure you have at least 20 apps in the OSX application directory and list them (list mode). Count the seconds it takes to display all the app icons : ) where has the responsiveness gone ?

@SoundSquare "I'm not saying it's a bad thing from apple to do so, but it makes me think that the gfx driver itself must be awfully slow."

It's an evolution to use the gfx card, not the opposite. And they (Apple), were the first doing it. Nowdays Vista, Seven are also doing this. They use the gfx card for the "genie" effect too.
Now, I'm going to reply with the same tone you use: if you think that the gfx driver itself must be awfully slow, I'm happy for you.

Now, here is a video of MOS 16bits "ehanced display" disabled:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1566495/MOS.M4V

If you're happy with this, and this if this is smooth for you, well...again I'm happy for you...

Ok guys, I have nothing against you, but you don't seems very objective here.
I'm not going to lose my time to discuss about that anymore. I hope that the video show my disappointment about MOS on the Mac Mini. Merry Xmas. Take care.

@gibs

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I have MorphOS installed on my classic and it's great. Faster than AmigaOS. And I have used it with PicassoIV, CV64, G-Rex and CV3D. And my Mac Mini flies.

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Firefox 1 fast on OSX10.4??? are you kidding? I have a Mac Mini G4 /1.5Ghz with 5400rpm drive and 1GB of ram and Firefox was slow. Slower than it is on my pentiumIV and slower than OWB on MorphOS.

MorphOS MPlayer runs rings compared to OSX video players.

OSX 10.4 was simply slow and badly designed (anti-intuitive, lacked configurability, the GUI forced the user to wait due to stupid GUI design). I installed OSX10.5 and you know what? I was so scared by Apple engineers level of incompetence that I deleted all that Apple crap from my HD.

My Mac Mini runs MorphOS smoothly now and I'm glad to have it registered.