> what issues would interfere with using FFS?

According to http://library.morph.zone/Filesystems, Fast File System 2 (FFS) seems not so bad. It should be the same implementation by Olaf 'olsen' Barthel as used in OS4, up to and including DOS\6 and DOS\7 modes (long filenames). Unfortunately, the Linux FFS implementation lacks DOS\6 and DOS\7 modes, so if Linux should be able to access the partition, file name length is restricted to 31 characters.

> are there any inherent issues with sharing an SFS partition with both MorphOS and Linux?

The most inherent issue is probably that Linux doesn't know SFS by default. There is a kernel module available, but I don't know if it can be made to work with current kernel versions.

Quote:

Thanks, that's about the most useful post made so far in this matter.
Now I have something to work with.
Linux isn't essential.

Quote:

I think the asfs module is no longer maintained, and the affs one certainly doesn't support the DOS/06 and DOS/07 dostypes. When I tried they were simply not accessible, don't know if that has changed.

Apart from that, lack of disk tools such as recovery and defrag are quite a knotty problem. Disksalv won't work with the newer FFS dostypes either, and was never 64-bit aware. Linux of course can't fix problems in FFS and SFS.

@KennyR:

So, basically, count Linux out on those two filesystems.
Well, there's always FAT.

And to summarize, FFS is probably a better choice than SFS for cross compatibility between OS4 and MorphOS.

Quote:

FFS DOSType 03 is indeed the best you can go for in terms of compatibility. Classic can read it, Linux can read it, MOS and OS4 can read it. Even WB1.3 can read it, assuming you have FFS v34 around and a mountlist. There are no different implementations, it's all the same, with FFS2 actually having some bugs fixed. Its performance is pretty poor compared to SFS (despite what I've heard from people who should know better - seriously, go get Diskspeed and bench it against PFS/SFS yourself).

Here's my results from many years back:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q7et37y8u6oxq3y/DiskSpeed.Results.pdf

What totally put me off using FFS or FFS2 was the validation time. If you happened to crash while writing, validation would take AAAGES. I remember it took hours on an old Amiga drive, but with a modern drive and 10,000s of files, it can very literally take days - and think what it's doing to your drive. If it fails to validate, which is relatively rare but not unknown, you won't be able to use Disksalv as it's 32-bit; you can still get the files out but it'll still take forever to copy them with the partition in an unvalidated state.

So while FFS is definitely your go-to for compatibility, if I were you I'd put anything likely to write a lot on an SFS partition to save you that validation headache. Biggest offender is browser cache. As for the performance loss, as long as you don't stick hundreds of files in one directory, chances are you won't even notice.

[ Edited by KennyR 03.11.2017 - 10:06 ]

Addendum:

> Fast File System 2 (FFS) [...] should be the same implementation by Olaf 'olsen' Barthel
> as used in OS4, up to and including DOS\6 and DOS\7 modes (long filenames).

I just read something interesting which was new to me:

"A few years ago I had a go at disassembling FastFileSystem 45.13, the final version released by Amiga Inc. in OS 3.9 Boing Bag 2. [...] One interesting feature I found is code for DosType DOS\8, which seems to be intended to support longer filenames; up to 54 characters vs 30 for normal FFS."
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=858582

"Enabled and fixed hidden partially implemented long file name support. If partition dos type is DOS\8, max file/directory name length gets increased to 54 characters (from 30) by using previously unused bytes of file/dir header block."
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1188826

"DOS\8 is identical to DOS\3 (international FFS) when there are no files with long names. So you can in-place convert an existing DOS\3 partition to DOS\8 just by changing the DosType in the first longword (and edit your mount file to reflect the new DosType). Similarly, you could convert back to DOS\3, providing you're certain that there are no files or directories with long names in the partition. Programs like DiskSalv and ReOrg won't of course work with DOS\8 partitions."
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1188965

"DOS/8 was "sort of present" already in the Os 3.9 version, but there not fully functional. It has 54 character long file names (so more than the usual 30), but is backwards compatible in the sense that the block layout is just like the one in DOS/1, except that unused fields are populated with the extra characters, so old tools will at worst damage the file name, but nothing else. Probably we'll keep DOS/8 inofficial, as it used to be."
http://amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=833207

"About the only thing that was present of DOS/8 in the 3.9 release is ExAll() and friends, and the computation of the maximum file size. Everything else on file names in DOS/8 was there borken... Open, Rename, Lock, .... you name it. I cleaned this up for V46, so it now works quite fine on my HD since probably a year or so. [...] DOS/8 is most likely not going to become official [...] because we have another alternative that is more flexible."
http://amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=833258

"there is one "hidden" feature we do not support officially, and this is DOS\08. Nobody remembers how, but Os 3.9 already supported it, albeit incompletely. It is an FFS variant that supports long file names limited to 54 characters, but that is backwards compatible to the older flavours of the FFS such that you can easily upgrade from DOS\03 to DOS\08, gain additional length, but do not need to reformat. Unlike the Os 3.9 variant, this version works, however. We still do not support it officially as diskdoctor [...] does not support it, but it is otherwise in fine working condition."
https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=73694.msg840687#msg840687


Edit: added one more

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 13.10.2018 - 14:40 ]

Confirmation that the X5000 can work with dual video cards with certain configurations.
The second card in the pciex1 slot is not functional under AmigaOS 4.1 but is the primary card under Linux .

http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3917


Quote:

Quote:

If the author(s) of SFS for AmigaOS4.x are not listening to the general Amiga community, and working toward making their work on SFS for AmigaOS4.x backward compatible with all previous SFS versions, I suggest that everyone contact both the author/programmer, AND Trevor @ A-Eon, AND Matthew @ AmigaKit, to ask them to solve any existing incompatibilities, and maintain full compatibility of all future versions of SFS.

I'm guessing that the original version of SFS is no longer supported, which is why someone else started a parallel effort, which is apparently only available for AmigaOS4.x.

The author/programmer might not care about working to fix compatibility problems, but as much as A-Eon/AmigaKit tout the many different flavors of Linux they subsidize support for their hardware, surely they must care about this issue. If enough users contact all three entities, I have to believe that the plea for compatibility will be listened to by one or more of them, and chances to get it fixed will be improved.

I'm sure there are many X1000, X5000, SAM460 owners, and soon A1222/Tabor owners, who would prefer all versions of SFS to be backward compatible.

Edit: "parallel effort" is not quite the correct term, if the original SFS is no longer supported, but I think you understand what I mean.

[ Edited by amigadave 13.12.2017 - 15:31 ]

> a parallel effort, which is apparently only available for AmigaOS4.x

It‘s also available for AmigaOS 3.x.

Personally, I've never had a single problem sharing files between morphos and os4 via SFS and even SFS2 (68k build). I'm talking about large partitions (>500gb) and numerous large transfers involving thousands of tiny files and that's going on for years now on my Peg2. Having said that, I always keep backups, but that's a good practice by itself. On topic, on both my mac and Peg2, the common, "transfer" partition is NTFS. Debian, OSX, OS4, MorphOS - all can read/write on it just fine and in the unlikely chance that something's important on it and gets trashed, I can always mount the disk on a pc and chkdsk it or run a recovery tool.

Will anyone be around at AmiWest next month to show MorphOS ?

Based on the official show announcements, Acill will be exhibiting MorphOS as well as other projects.

I realize this may have limited interest here beyond Paul's participation. Nevertheless:


Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters

Until such time as the list of presenters (stage presentations) is published, we'll have to stick to the exhibitor list.

Contents of this thread will be in the hands of AmiWest. It will be their decision based on content/duplication etc. as to which questions are asked at the show as a supplement fo questions from show attendees.

The way you can best support your friends, companies, and representatives at the show starts with you. Please put some thought into your wording and ask questions in a serious manner.


Please post your questions in the format:

@name of exhibitor from the list below
[question]


This is essentially a copy of the information on the following listed page.
Further information on the exhibitors with clickable links:
AmiWest home page
I'll monitor this list for any changes/additions.


AmiWest exhibitors:

Sacramento Amiga Computer Club
Sponsors of AmiWest since its founding in 1998 by SACC club members. The Amiga show on the West Coast of the U.S. and venue for the Amiga community gathering in the United States from all points on the planet. We have counted many Amiga luminaries among our members, among them the legendary Jay Miner. We currently maintain the Jay Miner memorial software library.

AMUC
Amiga Users of Calgary, Canada, has been organized and active since 1999. Thank you for sponsoring AmiWest and keeping the flame alive in Canada! See their page link above for information on their AmiJam show.

A-EON Technology, Ltd.
New AMIGAone hardware company bringing the Amiga X1000 and X5000 with dual-core PPC CPU and custom Xena chips to market.

AmigaKit
World #1 Amiga hardware and software dealer for Amiga classic and emerging Amiga platforms, including A-Cube SAM series and A-EON X1000 and (soon!) X5000..

AmiWest broadcast
Broadcasting Amiga shows for 20 years from all over North America. The technology has envolved from just IRC to IRC and Webcam to IRC, Webcam, and Streaming Audio, to IRC, Webcam, Audio, and Video. Tune in to see and hear the show live with real time Video Toaster effects.

Amiga On The Lake
Amiga On The Lake, "The First Primarily "Amiga New Generation" Reseller on Planet Earth!" (other planets pending ), will be ably represented by owner Aaron Smith and company at AmiWest 2018. Talk to him about all the new Amiga NG offerings for both hardware and software! Thanks for supporting Amiga Future Forward!

Amiga Apps
Amiga experts show AmigaOS applications and configurations for the 21st century! You won't want to miss what these guys are bringing!

Inertial Computing
Inertial Computing exhibits again at AmiWest 2018, celebrating 33 years of Amiga. Exhibitor Alex Perez, long-time AmiWest Broadcast member and AmigaOS beta-tester and developer, is bringing his exhibit to AmiWest 2018. "Inertial Computing is a Silicon-valley based think [tank] dedicated to developing and engaging the Amiga hardware and software development community and enabling creative re-use of what others may consider antiquated and/or obsolete computer technology." Inertial will also be selling the new SCSI25DB adapters, adapting the old SCSI interface to a micro SD card. And there's several other projects as well! You've got to come see it all at AmiWest!

Bay Area Retrocomputing Club
BARCC is a NEW retro computing club in the San Francisco Bay Area supporting AmiWest 2018. Whatever retro machine interests you (Sinclair, TRS-80, C64, and more) you are welcome. It's a "big tent." See their site for more info on meetings and come talk to them at AmiWest 2018.

Bit By Bit Software Group
From their website: "BITbyBIT Software Group LLC was formed in November of 2003 by Jamie Krueger as a new software development company dedicated to producing high quality software for the latest release of the AmigaOS4(tm) operating system, AmigaOS4(tm). The primary focus of the company is to bring a new level of professional software development tools, in an easy to use graphical environment, to the AmigaOS4(tm) platform. This software development suite is called AVD." Come see AVD and talk with Jamie at AmiWest 2018!

SACC guy
SACC Guy returns for AmiWest 2018 as one of our two SACC member exhibitors. He is actually one of the founders of AmiWest. He has many things to say about Amiga and is a very engaging conversationalist as well as a major X5000 beta tester. Come see his table at AmiWest 2018!

Ascil Amiga Tech
Retro computer tech Paul Rezendes will be at AmiWest 2018! He is bringing new projects that you won't want to miss! Be sure to see his table!

Chris Brenner, engineer
Chris Brenner, returning SACC member and hardware engineer, has been wow-ing us at SACC with new hardware running old games - in 1080P resolution! You've got to see what he is bringing to AmiWest 2018.

Infocessories
Infocessories, the Amiga REBOL community presenting the Relative Expression-Based Object Language by Carl Sassenrath. We will also have accessories (mice, accelerator boards, etc.) for your classic Amiga for sale. There might even be a computer or two for you to purchase. Come visit our table.

#6

Probably should have been spawned as its own news article?

Quote:

Given one grand total reply so far from 3 websites, I don't think it merits more than its addition to this existing AmiWest thread.
But I have no issue if anyone wants to move it.

#6

Quote:

I think it wouldn't hurt to correct some incorrect and/or obsolete information at the AmiWest homepage ;-)

Quote:

I'm having enough trouble keeping up with the appearing, disappearing, re-appearing text concerning Hyperion, thanks. heh.
Source

#6

Schrödinger's Hyperion - they're simultaneously there and not there. And like quantum physics, the observed state depends on who is asking and how. But unlike quantum physics, the "there" state depends on whether they can milk any publicity without having to pay for it or get into more legal shenanigans.

But in the end, who really cares. AmiWest broadcasts are forty-five minutes of listening to people having problems setting up presentations or the hotel wifi, followed by several hours of filming empty chairs at the sound of people talking in the distance. And if you're really lucky, a presentation you can either see or hear but never both.

It really should be put out of its misery. It was sad 15 years ago. Now it's worse.

Quote:

@kennyR
Thank you your kind words.
As one of the co-founders of AmiWest..

I'm sorry that you find us ready to be put down. (ouch) really?
I want you to know that our little user group endeavor is all voluntary and the little
budget we have is mostly to pay the hotel and it's services (i.e. net access)

WE know that this is not the broadcast quality our many followers want,
But it is what we can afford.
You could, if you wish, bring your knowledge and resources to help,
and make our little show better.

sacc-

I do plan to bring my powerbook with the latest updates to 3.10 this year, but not my X5000. I intend to focus more on having fun and enjoying the show this year. I will be happy to show off some of the features though. I have mine setup rather nice and very much use it to run Amiga and native apps.

> I do plan to bring my powerbook with the latest updates to 3.10

3.11?

Quote:

Breaking my silence with small medi on AmiWest and returning.

Should not be put out. Waiting for Amiga decade happenings is too retro and long.
What we need is European central Amiga show, since clearly more OS3/OS4/MOS/AROS
users live at this side of ocean.

From an outsiders perspective:

First years of OS4 development, it looked very promising. You could really
hear what is new. Who was there, could meet people involved.

As mid-crisis came (2006-2011?) with no real hardware to sell or SAMs emerging in small batches, OS4 scene simply tend to die out. Decisions like not to further develop Acube port to MacMini, to use obsolete PA Semi and CFE, prolongued to eternity development of OS 4.2 and Warp3D for all, fixing Linux for SI cards, Libre office, Timberwolf ... and all other given promises simply nailed it. Prolongued driver development for Tabor and x5000 nails and hurts it further. I mean x5000 users having similar troubles to x1000 and SAM460 owners with betaOS is just proof "Of not learning what NOT to do" - selling half usable,half done package.

I do hope OS 3.1.4 sales will revive it a bit (scene and thus AmiWest).

For several years, I do hear and see Steven dodging serious questions and laughing to what is not to laugh at. I wonder how people being there see and hear differently.

> What we need is European central Amiga show

http://www.amiga30.de
http://www.amiga32.de

> mid-crisis [...] (2006-2011?) with no real hardware to sell or
> SAMs emerging in small batches

OS4 for Sam440ep became available in 2008, so that's when the 3-year long OS4 hardware crisis that started with the non-availability of the Micro-A1 ended formally. I never heard of anyone who wanted a Sam440 back then but couldn't get one. They were plenty available compared to the demand. Of course, it wasn't an option for everyone as the CPU performance of even the 800 MHz version of the Sam440ep-flex was below that of the Eyetech offerings. This only changed in early 2011 with the availability of the Sam460 (discounting the early 2009 availability of OS4 for the Pegasos II here since it wasn't available new then).

Quote:

Yes, that is show that has way more exhibitors as is more
Amiga and less OS4 centric, its in middle of Europe,
but happends ... from time to time. Such thing should
go regular and become "AmiEast"

They would however need that great TAWS with DOCS in English

Quote:

While your memory is always great (plus time to check facts) I do believe there were several availability gaps from 2003 to now, of up to several years in between of products. One products puts other out of business, so OS4 was ported to PegII when it was unavail, x1000 is unavail and not fully supported yet, SAM440 and SAM460 are fully supported but not available and x5000 is avail but not fully supported. So no happiness at all.

I dont get why all sys since 2011 all dual core and no SMP, etc. etc. Huge, big mistakes, and not seems to be learning from it. Why SI Cards were chosen for W3D and Linux usablity was not tested before hinting users to switch gfx cards. Why having a hardware and not growing to support it fully, and then moving elsewhere? You get half done half usable systems which are NOT good representation of what Amiga/AmigaOS was, is and should be.

And that it. Factual story hard to turn around by Amiwest shiny promises.
Miracle expected and always planned. The reason why I loved the MOS style - quiet and getting things done, trying to support hardware to details (even not yet there with G5s and x5000 SI cards/SMP)

Enough from me, really.

[ Edited by vox 07.10.2018 - 18:11 ]

> happends ... from time to time. Such thing should go regular

Maybe there'll be Amiga 34 next year. A biyearly event would be enough for presenting Amiga development milestones ;-)

> and become "AmiEast"

I've been thinking that "AmiWest" is referring just to the US west coast, not to the entire western hemisphere :-)

> I do believe there were several availability gaps from 2003 to now,
> of up to several years in between of products.

In my reply I was referring to the 2006 to 2011 time frame you proposed. During this, new OS4 hardware was unavailable in the 3 years until 2008 (end of Micro-A1 to start of Sam440). Regarding "availability gaps from 2003 to now, of up to several years in between of products", I'm not sure there were more than the one from 2005 to 2008 that were longer than about a year (availability of X5000 started 1 year plus 1 month after X1000 was sold out):

2003: AmigaOne XE
2004: Micro-A1
2008: Sam440ep
2009: Sam440ep-flex
2011: Sam460ex / AmigaOne 500
2012: AmigaOne X1000
2014: Sam460cr
2016: AmigaOne X5000/20

> One products puts other out of business

Not always. There was overlapping availability of at least
- AmigaOne XE and Micro-A1 in 2004
- Sam460ex (aka AmigaOne 500) and AmigaOne X1000 in 2012/2013
- AmigaOne X1000 and Sam460cr in 2014/2015

> I dont get why all sys since 2011 all dual core and no SMP

Sam460 (ex and cr) from 2011/2014 are single-core. The PA6T chip was never available as single-core. The P5020 was likely chosen over the P5010 because of the relatively small price difference (especially in light of the board price) and for better potential saleability to users of SMP-capable OS (even if just in multiboot with OS4).

> Why SI Cards were chosen for W3D and Linux usablity was not tested
> before hinting users to switch gfx cards.

Warp3D drivers for Linux-supported Evergreen/NI cards were announced as well, but didn't come to fruition unfortunately.

> You get half done half usable systems which are NOT good representation
> of what Amiga/AmigaOS [...] is

...or are they? ;-)

> MOS [...] even not yet there with G5s and x5000 SI cards/SMP

Yes, support for the PPC970 power saving modes (beyond complete switch-off) would be useful. SMP support isn't something I expect to ever come for MorphOS on Power Architecture.


Edit: some corrections and additions thanks to number6

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 07.10.2018 - 22:40 ]