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When in doubt, buy licenses from every dubious claim to IP you can?

Frankly, your repeated "Cloanto wins.." comments aren't really backed up by anything other than your opinion.
One thing is certain, only Hyperion has the only license, dubious or not, to develop new operating systems from OS 3.1.
Right now, Hyperion and Cloanto have a fairly amicable relationship, but honestly neither really has a legitimate claim to this IP as that died with the holders that went insolvent.
And Bill's claim to anything other than a trademark is laughable.

So, while I'm willing to a knowledge the recognized legal standing of the current IP holders, I don't really respect how they obtained that recognition.

And, as said before, if I need a copy of 3.1 that is less kludged up, then Hyperion's version makes more sense to me.

Actually there are not 3 different versions of OS3.1 now, there are FIVE!

Commodore Amiga - Amiga OS 3.1
Amiga technology (Escom) - Amiga OS 3.1
Amiga International (Escom) - Amiga OS 3.1
Cloanto - Workbench 3.1
HYPErion - Workbench 3.1

All 5 have subtle differences to each other, with the last 2 having not so subtle differences. Don't Village Tronic still have a license? Maybe they will throw their hat in the ring? LOL!!

> I have high confidence in Cloanto's tracking of copyright and securing IP.

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=11391&start=26 ;-)

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Yeah that is a complete s***ty move by Cloanto. I've always had nothing but utmost respect for them, but this looks bad. Since we never heard anything further I guess it never got worked out.

Is there no one in this market that stays completely within the lines other than the MorphOS Team?

> neither really has a legitimate claim to this IP as that died
> with the holders that went insolvent.

Who were these holders?

> Bill's claim to anything other than a trademark is laughable.

Interestingly, the transfer of the trademark didn't happen until 2006.

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7509&forum=3&start=15 ("Interesting side note" paragraph)

> Commodore Amiga - Amiga OS 3.1
> Amiga technology (Escom) - Amiga OS 3.1
> Amiga International (Escom) - Amiga OS 3.1

How are they different?
Btw, while the Escom subsidiary was named Amiga Technologies, Amiga International was the name of the Gateway subsidiary.

> Don't Village Tronic still have a license? Maybe they will throw
> their hat in the ring? LOL!!

They released the very first 3.1 version, the legality of which as well as the license they got from Commodore had been subject to legal disputes between them and Escom in court in 1997.

http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_31.html

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Besides packaging? At least between Commodore and Escom versions I vaguely remember some minor differences. One seemed to be a problem with file flags. There was some other small differences, I just don't remember.

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You are correct, in my haste I typed that wrong.

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Right... So there are SIX versions of Amiga OS 3.1!

> At least between Commodore and Escom versions I vaguely remember some minor
> differences. One seemed to be a problem with file flags.

But the binaries were the same?

> There was some other small differences, I just don't remember.

I'd like to read more on that as I always thought the contents of the 3.1 disks shipped by the succeeding parties (except the very first version from Village Tronic) was the same.

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I don't have an account on AWN, but Olaf "Olsen" Barthel is posting there in their thread on this subject. If there is any definitive authority on OS3.1, it would probably be him.

-Edit-
As an interesting side note, Olsen claims he replaced the check mark with the boing ball 18 years ago, so it wasn't a recent HYPErion branding decision.

[ Edited by redrumloa 14.10.2016 - 21:39 ]

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here is an official statement regarding the matter.

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As I see it, Hyperion mostly mentions 3.5/3.9 just as lame excuses for why OS4 was so late

Sure, I think they were promised sources for 3.9, but on the other hand, there aren't that many worthy changes there anyway...

Of course it was even less useful for 68k users back in the day, as you could simply get (in binary form) same / similar patches for free from aminet (newicons, classact, unofficial PPC support (WarpOS) ...)

> here is an official statement regarding the matter.

Yes, I linked to it some years back:

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=9339&start=34

>> Hyperion of all parties (basing AmigaOS 4.x on AmigaOS 3.1) mentions
>> AmigaOS 3.5 and 3.9 as regular AmigaOS releases on their websites

> Hyperion mostly mentions 3.5/3.9 just as lame excuses for why OS4 was so late :-)

Any links to such statements? They are not on their official websites, at least. And what I remember is quite to the contrary:

"Luckily this isn't too much of a problem because of the fact that we entered into new agreements with all the individual OS 3.5 and 3.9 developers. The end-result is that we do have access to all the work for OS 3.5 and 3.9 not produced by H&P themselves."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060111073306/http://www.swaug.org.uk/int010402.html

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You REALLY sure about this, Rob? I was under the impression the physical ROMs where licensed from Cloanto, and Ben Hermans himself seems to confirm this!

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What an odd thing to say!

[ Edited by redrumloa 15.10.2016 - 17:11 ]

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workbench_3.1_disk_set.JPG

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They sell the Cloanto ROMs in addition to the the ones they licensed from Hyperion.


The boingball branded ROMs are licensed by Hyperion and became available towards the end of 2012.

Don't you remember the thread I started when I spotted the the ROMs in Amigakit's new products section?

http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36985&forum=25&18

If you do, then you might also recall the reactionary thread you started on Moobunny where you tried to imply that I was suggesting that Amigakit were selling pirated ROMs.

Anyway that all happened nearly 2 years before Cloanto launched their Classic Support range.

https://www.amigaforever.com/news-events/classic-support-3-1/

Other than lack of knowledge, I've no idea why Ben would think it might not be possible to burn physical version of 40.72.

> They sell the Cloanto ROMs in addition to the the ones they licensed from Hyperion.
> The boingball branded ROMs are licensed by Hyperion

Isn't this license just for the Boingball logo, not for the actual ROM or its content?

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Right...

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This is from Ben's reply to a post by myself a few days ago.

Hyperion has over the years always worked with any serious party wishing to license 68K Kickstarts "as is" for their products for* the 68K community including Individual Computers and AmigaKit.

Source.

Also read the text from the clearer images Alinea Computer have on their shop.

588_0.png

* correction of an apparent typo. Or instead of for.

>> Isn't this license just for the Boingball logo,
>> not for the actual ROM or its content?

> This is from Ben's reply to a post by myself a few days ago. [...]
> Also read the text from the clearer images Alinea Computer have on their shop. [...]

Thanks for the links.

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I guess that could help explain the race to the bottom when it comes to physical Kickstart ROM pricing if there are truly 2 competing sources for dealers like A-Eonkit to license from. 10 years ago used KS3.1 ROM for A500 would have set you back $35, right now on A-Eonkit it is $14.62.

Wait, what? Clear as mud.

LINK

[ Edited by redrumloa 17.10.2016 - 12:15 ]

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Just Kolla's personal custom ROM. The text is probably just stored as a string so an average can probably at least change that using a hex editor.

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So the ROMs being sold don't have a Cloanto copyright and Boing Ball logo?

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Can't you see that he built the ROM as a joke? The boingball logo and the Cloanto copyright text are something that he put in to poke fun at the current situation. There's nothing to be read into it.

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The boingball logo is under license solely for the purpose of marketing AmigaOS "4"(Section 1C). So technically they should not have used it within the new kickstarts. ;)

A user from the a1k forum asked Hyperion about upcoming kickrom updates. That's the answer he got.

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