> Natami was announced in 2008 as something faster than ppc,
> something faster than uae on fast pc.

Do you have a link to such announcement from 2008?

> vampire is still two times slower than slowest ppc cards for amiga.

Slower than 80 MHz 603e or 75 MHz 604e? Can you provide integer benchmark results?

> slower than uae from year 2000 on pc from year 2000.

...but faster than UAE from year 1999 on PC from year 2001 ;-)

> One hundred times slower than what was announced in 2008.

Can you provide this calculation, please?

> Natami/apollo/vampire is bigest scam in entire amiga history.

With this questionable statement, you are downplaying the real scams.

> the soft fpu being benchmarked in the alb42 link referred to below
> was the Free Pascal soft fpu.

I understand it was the new ASM SoftFPU. The FreePascal SoftFPU was benchmarked a month earlier:

https://blog.alb42.de/2017/05/28/to-fpu-or-not-to-fpu/

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I see. The link I was referring to was the one you posted on 30/06.

https://blog.alb42.de/2017/06/29/an-replacement/

> The link I was referring to was the one you posted on 30/06.
> https://blog.alb42.de/2017/06/29/an-replacement/

I know. And that's where I think the new ASM SoftFPU was benchmarked, not the FreePascal SoftFPU.

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Unless you can provide proof for your statements above, I will just assume you are the liar, and someone who has an unhealthy obsession of trying to hurt Gunnar for some unknown reason, along with your obsession for trying to convince the Amiga and MorphOS communities to switch to Unix based hosted NG solution.

"Slower that commodore protypes" (I guess you mean prototypes) which never existed, and you cannot provide any proof of them or the benchmarks they could run.

"Slower than uae from year 2000 on a pc from year 2000" means nothing, unless you provide which pc, and benchmarks to prove your statement.

"One hundred times slower than what was announced in 2008" Really?!? Show me what was announced in 2008, and how it could be 100 times faster than what the Vampire can do today.

"It's a really big disappointment" Only for you, everyone else who actually owns one loves it and can't wait for the future core improvements, as well as the hundreds, or more likely thousands, who are waiting to purchase a Vampire stand alone, or A1200 model, plus hundreds more that will put Vampire boards into 68k Atari and Mac computers.

"Natami/apollo/vampire is bigest scam in entire amiga history" If it were a scam, then all those 4,000+ buyers would have put the guys selling Vampire boards out of business by demanding refunds, and there would be 4,000 angry users flooding the forum sites with the same crap you are spouting constantly.

Do you see a single member on any of the forums you spread your hate and exaggerations who agrees with you? I have not seen anyone who has agreed with any of your statements, or ideas. What a sad and lonely life you must live.

There are now over 4,000 users who disagree with your point of view, and the number is still growing fast. If/When Apollo Team decides to produce a Vampire model for the A1200, their sales numbers will probably double or triple what they have done so far.

@A. Wolf,
From what I have heard from one of the Vampire600 v2 owners, Gunnar and the Apollo Team might not even be trying to implement a full FPU soft core, and instead, they might be only adding the most commonly used FPU instructions, to allow the few games that were written to take advantage of an FPU on an Amiga, to run, where they would not run at all before.

I'm getting all this info 2nd hand, and don't yet have a Vampire for myself, but I haven't found any dissatisfied Vampire owners yet. I don't think full ray tracing is the aim for the Apollo Team and most Vampire owners, and they may run out of room in the FPGA, if they try to implement all of the FPU instructions, so perhaps they are trading off some things, to make room for others that are seen as a higher priority.

I think that the A1200 and stand alone Vampire models will have a larger and faster FPGA, which will make them more expensive, but allow more new features and speed.

The current distribution model they have gives them (whoever 'them' is, I can't tell really) some advantage over companies like Individual Computers and others.
Because AFAIK I don't really have any warranty or the extended warranty of two years for my Vampire, that re-sellers have to give in Germany over products like this.
I don't think they have much work todo, yet, to repair defective boards or send replacements and the like.
Once they do that the development will slow down a bit I think.

And for the standalone or A1200, when the stuff gets more expensive, I think I won't buy if there is no warranty.


Manfred

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You get a two years warranty in Germany?
Nice, standard in the US is 90 days.

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Usually (or by EU law) you have a 1 year warranty by the manufacturer.
And a 2 years warranty by the (re-)seller. Where within the first year the re-seller will probably go to the manufacturer.
After that he has to deal with it himself.

Now, If I receive a package from Canada from kipper2k with my A600 Vampire for 350€ without any warranty, they clearly make thereselves an easier life than any other hardware company that sells stuff for the Amiga through the usual re-seller channels.
There wasn't even an invoice which I could put into the tax-return.


Manfred

[ Edited by asrael22 03.07.2017 - 21:38 ]

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Really? So you buy a brand new MacBook Pro for $3000 and you have 90 days of warranty?


Manfred

Its so funny to see how many people is pissed off by the success that the vampire is having.

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Who is pissed off?

I think one of the good points or rather 'side effects' of the Vampire success is it's impact on the 2nd hand market of Amiga 680x0 accelerator cards! Before that time if you wanted a fast classic machine you needed to pay several 100 € of not more than 1000 € to get 68060 cards in a good working condition. Then you had to get suitable RAMs, maybe an SCSI-card for faster HDD-speeds and so on. A rather painful process... And in the end there always was a chance your config does not work 'cause of soldering issues or other things.

The advantage of the Vampire is, it provides a complete package CPU/RAM/fast MicroSD for *A LOT* less money. It even seems to get working chipset graphics output via HDMI. A powerful Classic-Amiga now is in the reach of a lot more people than it was before. I think that's why the user base is growing.

Having said that I do not plan to buy a Vampire. I got two A1200 with ACAs' and the 68030 is more than fast enough for almost all classic gaming needs. And I got my PowerBook G4 and PowerMac G5 for all other stuff, and they are way faster than the Vampires' will get in the years to come. I even can comfortably run Linux on these machines. So at least for me there is no need for an additional Amiga 'in between'. I might be interested in a standalone Vampire though if some day one of my A1200 fails. ;)

Neither do I think the Vampire-A1200 nor the standalone will boost the sales much. What's the advantage of a Vampire-A1200 if you can have AGA graphics via HDMI on a Vampire-A500 Amiga?

But it seems the active Amiga community as a whole is growing a little bit 'cause of the Vampire and I like that. Also AROS-680x0 seems to get a boost which I like too.

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Decent manufacturers still offer a 1 year warranty (zip from resellers unless you pay for it).
For instance, a laptop from HP comes with a one year warranty.

Cheaper stuff, say a Sony Blu Ray player, yep, 90 days.

Accessories like Vampire, varies with the manufacturer.

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Good points regarding why the Vampire accelerators are popular and what effect it is having on bringing the high prices for old Phase5 & DCE 68060 accelerators. But I disagree with you that the A1200 model Vampire will not have much effect on its sales. The A1200 was the most popular Amiga model AFTER the A500, and I would guess the A1200's were used longer into the 1990's, than the A500's, due to having AGA. I think that more former Amiga users might have kept their A1200's, while many of the A500's were sold, or eventually (and sadly) put in some trash bin. I don't live in Europe where the A1200 enjoyed its greatest popularity, so I don't really know how many people kept their A1200's and set them up every so often to play old Amiga games for nostalgic reasons, but it seems to me that every set of pictures from Amiga gatherings held anywhere in Europe, always showed mostly A1200 desktop, or tower conversions, being used. There also seem to be many forum posters who write that they are waiting for the Vampire A1200 model to be designed and produced, before they will buy any Vampire accelerator.

I do agree with you that the Vampire project has given the Amiga 68k community a boost, as well as AROS for 68k. As others have stated, any new software written for Amiga 68k will probably also run on MorphOS3.9 and AmigaOS4.1FE, either natively with their translation layers, or under emulation, if the new software needs the Amiga custom chips. So, in at least a small way, the Vampire project appears to give a small boost to all parts of the Amiga community, and that in itself is a feat that not many other projects can claim to have done.

@soviet,

The only person that the Vampire project seems to have "pissed off", is ppcamiga1. There are 1 or 2 others who complain about missing MMU, or FPU (now at least partially implemented), but I think those are forum posters who would complain about anything, just so they can have something to write about.

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That American freedom to be screwed over by corporations is really appealing! ;)

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Is there any great difference between here and Great Britain (except you DO get healthcare)?

I'm just surprised that re-seller have to offer an additional warranty period in Germany.
That rather dumps the responsibility on the sellers rather than the manufacturers.

And one year, two years, eh...it will just break right outside the two years mark, because everything is disposable crap anymore.

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I assume that's what it tries to avoid.
Manufacturers are supposed to produce something that sustains more than 2 years.
Is that really so hard?
I'm a big fan of sustainability.


Manfred

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For what I gathered from other forums the market is growing because of people returning to the Amiga. People who had one in the late 80ies, early 90ies and sold it. As I said an A1200 does not make much sense when they can have AGA via the Vampire (if they do know what AGA is when they left the scene before that time). Users who kept their A1200 all the time, or bought one before the Retro-Boom (like myself) are the ones who already pimped it up through the years. Only the most enthusiastic will trash their accelerators, now as the resale-value went down, and put a Vampire A1200. But of course my assumptions may be wrong. Time will tell.

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Yes, that's pretty nice. All recent SDL-ports which started on the Vampire, and need optimization for that hardware, have no speed problems at all on MorphOS machines.

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Checking web archive, checking web archive, still checking web archive. Checked. It still works.
Version of natami site from 2008 available.

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x86. Dear Dave You want to change API to not compatible with old apps, and still no memory protection and unix compatibility?
Your brain has malfunction. You need to visit specialist.

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Checking, checking, search function on morph.zone available. Thats all about progress on hombre in Commodore.

Good old HP PA-RISC 7100 is good old HP PA-RISC 7100. It was not exclusive to C=.
Get used HP hardware with PA-RISC 7100 and do some test on You own.

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JIT for uae was available in year 2000. Check some Amiga sites You easily get news about that.
After that dear Dave buy Pentium 233 MHz and do tests.
I know it is hard to You to accept that amiga community has cheap and compatible x86 solution better than crappy AROS, since year 2000, but dear Dave if You have problem with reality it is Your problem not reality.

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Use web archive, then google, then search on amigaworld. Key words are G4 200 600 MHz.

"It's a really big disappointment"

"Natami/apollo/vampire is bigest scam in entire amiga history"

It is scam of course. Natami/apollo/vampire is far away from what was announced 10 years ago.

> You want to change API [...], and still no memory protection [...]?

You are misinformed. MorphOS on x86-64 is supposed to have memory protection.

>> Show me what was announced in 2008, and how it could be 100 times faster
>> than what the Vampire can do today.

> Key words are G4 200 600 MHz.

You mean Vampire is slower than a 6 MHz G4?

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Sadly we are becoming more and more like the USA. Free healthcare will be gone soon enough if these terrorist funding bastards that currently rule over us get their way.

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It's not a German thing it's a European thing. We all get two year warranty on electrical goods. American companies here always tell us we get one year though, Apple are the worst for trying to get out of it.

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I would say that there is a great deal of differences between protection of the consumer in the UK and European Union, than there is in the USA (and it is only going to get worse with our current president). I do agree with you that it is unfair that the seller must provide an additional warranty that is double that provided by the manufacturer, when the seller has no control over quality control, or design of the products. That part seems weird to me, but I agree with my whole heart that electrical devices, as well as everything else should carry longer warranties by the manufacturers, so we stop being such a wasteful society. Wouldn't it be great if manufacturers were actually required to design and manufacture goods that had to last at least 5 to 10 years, and things like cars & trucks that were required to last 15 to 25 years, without the owner having to spend thousands in repair costs, and replacing them after about 5 to 7 years, which is probably the average in the USA anyway.

The UK and other European countries have had organized governments for longer periods of time, so they have gone through their own revolutions from time to time. The revolution in the USA is yet to happen, but with Trump in office, it may hasten our revolutions arrival by a few decades. The common folk will only take so much oppression for so long, before they decide to change the way things are done at the top.

I really think that most European countries (specially Western European) are more successful in respecting human rights and quality of life for the common person, than just about anywhere else on the planet. New Zealand and Australia are probably the same as well. It's time the rest of the world took notice and followed their example.

The problems of thousands of immigrants flocking from oppressed regions of the world into countries that respect humanity should be resolved by making the areas these people are fleeing from more like the areas the people are fleeing to, instead of trying to fit all these people into the already established societies with different customs and social norms. That is a discussion for some other forum thread, not this one about Vampire sales and success.

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I couldn't say that.
When you buy at Apple they are bound to those two years as well. And I had no problem yet with Apple not replacing or fixing something.

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I agree to a part. On the other hand, if the products are not of a quality which last two years (or hopefully more), then the re-seller can put pressure on the manufacturer by removing the product from sale, or by saying he would if it doesn't improve.


Manfred

[ Edited by asrael22 06.07.2017 - 08:50 ]

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In 2009 my elderly mother in law took her MBP with the known faulty nvidia 8600MGT chip to the Apple store for repair. It was 13 months old. They charged her 350+VAT to replace the logic board stating that "Apple policy is 12 months warranty, it doesn't matter what the EU says".

She's old and just paid it. When mine started showing the same fault I threatened them with lawyers and got it replaced for free eventually but not before a huge stand up row with the 12yr old store manager.

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Hmm, that's unfortunate.
I had the same MBP and Apple replaced the logic board without cost after more than 2 years.
I'd probably say it may depend on the people in the store and how the management operates there.
I wouldn't necessarily put that on Apple.


Manfred