ferrels on amigaworld.net:

"There were/are plenty of people using hacked copies of OS4.0 on their PegII's long before OS4.1 was officially released for it. [...] Several people on the Morphzone sent me PMs volunteering to help me get OS4 running on my own PegII back in 2006! And no, I will not divulge their names."

Now it's time to stand up, you, the people ferrels is refering to ;-)

Update:

> Recently, OS4 Team member Joerg Strohmayer even claimed [...]
> that Vallinotto developed Moana without permission, rendering Moana
> *per se* a pirate copy of OS4, with Vallinotto == pirate.

OS4 Team member Costel "Cyborg" Mincea confirms this assessment:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.os4welt.de/viewtopic.php?f=1%26t=503

This doesn't hinder Vallinotto from promoting his skills by listing this (allegedly) illegal development he says he did when working for ACube:

Quote:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=30486&forum=33&start=40#535115

Strange, as ACube was founded only in January 2007:

http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.php?page=company


Edit:

Some statements from ACube on Moana:

"Apple were leaving the PPC MacMini behind and it could be a good idea to purchase some of them and offer them on the Amiga market. Later Hyperion/Amiga Inc didn't want to follow us on this and it ended there. Too bad because it was the right time to do it [...]. [...] Really I don't remember [if Hyperion was in knowledge of the port]. It was so long time ago.."
http://www.retroplanet.gr/content/interview-acube-srl-%CF%83%CF%85%CE%BD%CE%AD%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B5%CF%85%CE%BE%CE%B7-acube-srl

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 28.09.2016 - 11:07 ]

@Andreas_Wolf

Strohmayer wrote some Mac Mini drivers (IDE for example IIRC) so his statement is funny (like his twisted logic of ordering SGuillard to remove TD64 support of existing ide/sata drivers claiming that it was an evil MorphOS extension)

Killing Mac Mini port was a commercial suicide: Hyperion forgot they were a software company and decided that they could earn more money forcing users to buy hardware with poor performance/price ratio. And the top of the cake was "Sam" toy computers: rather poor machines released 7 years later than Pegasos2 that were unable to compete with it.

BTW, Peg1 could run OS4 if the firmware had a full rtas tree. Afaik it hasn't or is incomplete. I doubt Genesi/DCE will ever update it but maybe it would be possible to do some kind of forth script (like the one available for Efika) to complete the rtas tree.

> Strohmayer wrote some Mac Mini drivers (IDE for example
> IIRC) so his statement is funny

Interesting. Thanks for info.

> like his twisted logic of ordering SGuillard to remove TD64
> support of existing ide/sata drivers claiming that it was
> an evil MorphOS extension

AFAIR he proclaimed that TD64 was a bug. I think he wouldn't probably dare to say the bad 'M' word in public ;-)

> the top of the cake was "Sam" toy computers: rather poor
> machines released 7 years later than Pegasos2 that were
> unable to compete with it.

The Sam that was released 7 years after the Peg2 is the Sam460ex. If we compare the CPUs (1.15 GHz PPC460EX vs. 1.0 GHz G4) for scalar code there's not much difference:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=485

From that you can calculate that of the six scalar dnetc cores the 1.0 GHz G4 wins at three (10%, 7%, 3% faster), the 1.15 GHz PPC460EX wins at one (17% faster) and with two dnetc cores there's less than 1% difference between the CPUs. For AltiVec code on the G4 vs. scalar code on the PPC460EX the outcome would be obvious, though.
But also for cache and RAM performances the Peg2 G4 is not the clear winner over the Sam460ex:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=487
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=639
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=640

As you see, while the Peg2 G4 wins in L2 throughput it apparently loses in L1 and RAM throughputs against the Sam460ex.
And finally in the Sam460ex there's SATA2 vs. Peg2's PATA, USB2 vs. Peg2's USB1 and PCIe vs. Peg2's (fake) AGP.

> Peg1 could run OS4 if the firmware had a full rtas tree.
> Afaik it hasn't or is incomplete.

Yes, I know that OS4 on Peg2 relies on RTAS. Btw, Trevor Dickinson revealed that he was beta tester for OS4 on Peg1:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6220&start=82

It's a pity the port to Peg1 never came off. It would have made my Peg1 sale much more profitable than it was ;-)

> I doubt Genesi/DCE will ever update it

DCE? You mean bplan here, right? And yes, this ship has definitely sailed by now. When I still had my Peg1 I really wanted to have better Linux compatibility, so it had really pissed me off that BBRV were promising a firmware update for years but nothing ever came.

I remember when OS4 came out for the Peg II at last, I just about fell out of my chair laughing at it. If you all remember back when the PEg II was still relatively new I offered to fund the $10,000 Hyperian said it would cost, and then ultimately was shut down and told it wouldn't happen. Apple stock has done very well for me, and in the long run I am glad I didn't do it. That $10,000 has turned into much much more over the years now!!

> Strohmayer wrote some Mac Mini drivers (IDE for example
> IIRC) so his statement is funny

Seems there were also others helping Vallinotto with Moana:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=33995&forum=33&start=60#623686

acill

Well i know you have been playing apple stocks for years now and when we hung out back when peg2 first was out i remember you telling me about your offer to fund development.. didnt you do the same for Morphos team and they refused? Well i'm happy for you dude because if you still have apple shares they are going to be worth as much as google soon! :)

@ thread

the most critical mistake imho that Hyperion has made ,and continues to make, is porting OS4 to alien custom hw platforms (i.e. sam, x1k, etc) instead of focusing on high end commmodity apple g4 hw platforms as morphos team has done.

> alien custom hw platforms (i.e. sam, x1k, etc) instead of focusing on
> high end commmodity apple g4 hw platforms

Not being a native English speaker I wonder what 'alien' means in this context and how Apple hardware is any less 'alien' than Sam4x0 or X1000, considering that especially the X1000 is claimed to be created specifically for running OS4.

andreas

I'd call you an "alien" but I know that you are actually a roBOT...

have no fear you are not alone for Ralph Schmidt is a robot as well (hence laire) lulz

> I'd call you an "alien"

That wouldn't make sense as I'm not running OS4.

> I know that you are actually a roBOT...

Is this your schizophrenia kicking in again?

> have no fear

Fear is a kind of feeling, isn't it?

> Hyperion had MorphOS running on the Pegasos2 *a long time ago*,
> and so did others, but by using a different method.

"I know for a fact that OS4 was running on the Peg2 long before it was released"
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=747343

Is there a connection between the second part of your first statement and your second statement?

Quote:

Personally, I am not worried about your slight of Andreas (as he will no doubt defend himself).
But I have no idea what you have against Ralph Schmidt. The guy is a genius.

"Love is in the air..."

Addendum:

>> Peg1 could run OS4 if the firmware had a full rtas tree.

> Yes, I know that OS4 on Peg2 relies on RTAS. Btw, Trevor Dickinson revealed that
> he was beta tester for OS4 on Peg1:
> https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6220&start=82

An OS4 core developer claims that public OS4 (or at least an older version than current OS4.1 FE) indeed can be made to run on the Peg1 (Google translation):

"yes, with tooth and nail it can also run on a Peg 1 can (at least an older version), but that does anything but fun. So do not put your fingers on it."
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.os4welt.de/viewtopic.php?p=23697%23p23697

Can anybody confirm?

Quote:

Will it boot on nespresso ones?. It would be cool to boot it while making my morning coffee...

Statement of Hyperion director Costel "Cyborg" Mincea (Google translation)

He says that OS4 was ported to the Pegasos II *before* the Sam440ep was released by ACube. As we know, the Sam440ep was released in 2007 (with OS4 needing until 2008 to officially support it) while the Pegasos II port of OS4 was released only in 2009.
This seems (finally) to be an official admission by Hyperion that the Pegasos II port of OS4 was artificially held back from release for some years.

Quote:

not just me, and many other OS developers would love to march forward instead of constantly moving sideways, like a crab

Yup, and that is exactly why MorphOS is is light years better than OS4. That and the fact the MorphOS Team is the best and brightest in the industry.

OS4 could have been in a much better situation if they embraced the PPC Mac port. More users, period. Instead they chose to go the custom hardware route with presumably some crazy high per-computer OEM license fee buried in to the uber crazy high system cost.

[ Edited by redrumloa 10.09.2018 - 12:49 ]

> the MorphOS Team is the best and brightest in the industry.

"Amiga" industry? ;-)

> OS4 [...] chose to go the custom hardware route with presumably
> some crazy high per-computer OEM license fee buried in to the
> uber crazy high system cost.

I think the OS cost (which still is the original price that was in place before the massive price drop to 30 EUR according to A-Eon) is presumably negligible compared to the "uber crazy high system cost" of the X1000 or X5000.

Quote:

Question is how much of that is just hidden OS-costs (OEM fees/licenses).

Or another question, out of the suggested price differential of 1200-1400€ between X5000 and Tabor how much is due to the better SoC and where in hell did the remaining 1195-1395€ go !!!!

> Question is how much of that is just hidden OS-costs (OEM fees/licenses).

You mean beside the openly stated OS4 OEM costs paid to Hyperion?

> out of the suggested price differential of 1200-1400€ between X5000
> and Tabor how much is due to the better SoC

The price difference of the SoC alone is 150 to 200 EUR.

> where in hell did the remaining 1195-1395€ go !!!!

A-Eon says the A1222/Tabor will be sold at cost, opposed to the X5000/Cyrus. I guess that one product cross-subsidizes the other product.

Quote:

I wouldn't place much faith on what Steve has to say.
He likes making blanket statements without documentation.

Getting OS4 to run on a Peg2 would have required drivers to work with the new Northbridge used on that board.

Its not just a "hack".

In fact, it would be much easier to "hack" a Peg1 to run that OS.

> Getting OS4 to run on a Peg2 would have required drivers to work
> with the new Northbridge used on that board. Its not just a "hack".
> In fact, it would be much easier to "hack" a Peg1 to run that OS.

Yes, essentially what ASiegel said in comment #20, except that OS4 would have to be hacked to run on the Peg1 (not the other way round) :-)