FYI: Powerbook 5.9 heat problems
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metatron
    Posts: 72 from 2011/11/18
    Since a few days I am a proud owner of a MOS licence.

    While familiarizing with the system, setting up Wifi, SMBFS, neating up... I also installed some old games like RTCW and QuakeII. Everything is running fine but after a few minutes the Powerbook turns off and only can be turned on again after a few minutes. :(
    So I took a screwdriver a looked after the mess inside:
    pb1.jpg
    pb2.jpg

    Cleaned up everything, added some good thermal paste and put everything toghether. Now it works like a charm :)
    pb4.jpg
    pb5.jpg

    This was also a good opportinity for replacing the dead clock battery which has gone on my nerves ;-). A replacement akku can be found easily at e**y.
    pb3.jpg

    Btw:
    Is there a kind of "fancontrol" for the Powerbook in MOS 3.5.x?
  • »29.03.14 - 13:31
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    ciVic
    Posts: 45 from 2013/6/2
    I'm also an owner of the 5,9 including license so thx for this! However I never had problems like that, I even only heard my fans once within the last two months, when I tried to install Win XP in Bochs. A bit more annoying for me is the brightness of the screen. It seems to be in auto mode whatever I do. The screen also seems to be very darf compared to my Macbook Air.
  • »29.03.14 - 14:39
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    metatron wrote:
    Is there a kind of "fancontrol" for the Powerbook in MOS 3.5.x?


    It is built in into the OS. It's not user configurable though.
  • »29.03.14 - 14:41
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    ciVic wrote:
    I'm also an owner of the 5,9 including license so thx for this! However I never had problems like that, I even only heard my fans once within the last two months, when I tried to install Win XP in Bochs. A bit more annoying for me is the brightness of the screen. It seems to be in auto mode whatever I do. The screen also seems to be very darf compared to my Macbook Air.


    You can disable automatic brightness adjustment in Laptop prefs.
  • »29.03.14 - 14:49
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metatron
    Posts: 72 from 2011/11/18
    Quote:

    jacadcaps schrieb:
    Quote:

    metatron wrote:
    Is there a kind of "fancontrol" for the Powerbook in MOS 3.5.x?

    It is built in into the OS. It's not user configurable though.


    Thats interesting. I though the control of the fan lies primary in the firmware of the PowerBook itself.
    So whats was/is the target of the fancontrol implementation in MOS? Make it more silent?
    Would be great if users would have some influence on this. Maybe only a switch for silent/agressive cooling or so...
  • »29.03.14 - 18:47
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    amiga4001
    Posts: 440 from 2006/11/16
    From: The Netherlands
    I also had heatproblems with the 5.9 powerbook and also replaced the coolingpaste.
    But I also cleaned out the fan blowout holes.
    There was a lot of dust in there which prevented a good airflow
  • »30.03.14 - 19:35
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    metatron wrote:
    Thats interesting. I though the control of the fan lies primary in the firmware of the PowerBook itself.



    There is some hardware control of the temperature, but the firmware (OF) doesn't do much in that regard. Try entering OF on a G5 - the fans will go full speed quickly. At the moment hw controlled stuff is mostly used to issue a forced shutdown in case of an overheat.

    Quote:

    So whats was/is the target of the fancontrol implementation in MOS? Make it more silent?
    Would be great if users would have some influence on this. Maybe only a switch for silent/agressive cooling or so...



    It tries to keep the machine silent indeed. Do note that while MorphOS generally uses less CPU power than Mac OS X, MorphOS does slightly worse in terms of keeping other parts of the mobo in low-power mode (the Radeon, for example, never goes into low speed).

    I thought about some fan speed calibration tool and silent/cool profiles and that's in my queue, but the queue is long so I cannot promise much.
  • »31.03.14 - 09:06
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metatron
    Posts: 72 from 2011/11/18
    Damn, my Powerbook keeps shutting down suddenly. :(
    I ran the Quake2 timedemo 1 in windowed mode, having an eye on the temperature. CPU temp doesnt raise over 62°C and Radeon temperature doesnt raise over 59°C.
    After a few minutes (~5-10 minutes) the Powerbook turns off suddenly. Can be tunred on immendiately after that.
    Under normal use this doenst happen.

    So is this a MOS issue or is my Powerbook defective?

    Is it normal that MOS only shows me 1.5GB of DDR2 RAM allthough I have 2GB? Maybe its a RAM error?
  • »31.03.14 - 09:23
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    metatron wrote:
    Damn, my Powerbook keeps shutting down suddenly. :(

    Is it normal that MOS only shows me 1.5GB of DDR2 RAM allthough I have 2GB? Maybe its a RAM error?


    I've got a machine that reboots/freezes suddenly too... There could be many reasons for that.

    The 1.5GB is the maximum RAM MorphOS can handle at the moment.
  • »31.03.14 - 10:50
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metatron
    Posts: 72 from 2011/11/18
    Quote:

    jacadcaps schrieb:
    Quote:

    metatron wrote:
    Damn, my Powerbook keeps shutting down suddenly. :(


    I've got a machine that reboots/freezes suddenly too... There could be many reasons for that.


    Thats true but I will try to isolate this problem.
    So I can exclude a heat problem.
    Fallback battery has been replaced (due to some apple forums this can be a cause too)
    Faulty main battery - I will ordner a replacement over e**y
    Faulty powersupply - I will lend me a 65W supply from a friend soon
    Reset OF back to factory defaults - will try that(*1)
    Reset PMU (I am not sure if this isn't the same as the one above) - will try that too(*2)

    (*1)
    Apple says:
    Hold the Command+Option+O+F keys during startup. At the prompt type:
    >reset-nvram
    Hit Return
    >set-defaults
    Hit Return
    >reset-all
    Hit Return

    (*2)
    Apple says:
    If the computer is on, turn it off.
    Reset the power manager by simultaneously pressing and then releasing Shift-Control-Option-Power on the keyboard. Do not press the fn (Function) key while using this combination of keystrokes.
    Wait 5 seconds.
    Press the Power button to restart the computer.
  • »31.03.14 - 11:14
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metatron
    Posts: 72 from 2011/11/18
    I made some further testing and found out some new things.
    PMU reset didnt work.
    NVRAM reset didnt work.
    New battery is on its way.
    Didnt get the other PSU yet.

    But:
    I re-setup on a spare Harddisk MacOSX again and installed Quake II on MacOSX. Running the timedemo without any "blackout" for more than an hour.
    Then I recognized a very strange behaviour:
    Under MacOSX both fans are running under full load. In MOS only the right fan is running (its the GPU fan. The left fan (CPU) stands still.
    I ensured that boths fans are working. When performing the PMU reset both fans are spinning to max - I observed this while case was open.

    [ Editiert durch metatron 02.04.2014 - 07:26 ]
  • »01.04.14 - 20:14
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Generally, the GPU fan will run faster under MorphOS - the GPU works in full speed mode all the time and thus generates more heat than under OSX... Guess I really need to add some calibration tool for fans under MorphOS...
  • »02.04.14 - 11:13
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metatron
    Posts: 72 from 2011/11/18
    But the CPU fan doesnt move at all. It stands completely still, no rounds per minute.
    That explains why the GPU temp keeps in the range of 55°C and the CPU climbs above 65°C - and higher.
    Although the CPU climbs above 65°C - the fan doesnt move. That shouldnt be.
    If you want me to play some beta-test on my Powerbook: you may feel free.
  • »02.04.14 - 11:17
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    It could be that the voltage MorphOS applies to the fan isn't enough to make it spin up... although it should be enough if the temperature climbs that high up.
  • »02.04.14 - 12:06
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metatron
    Posts: 72 from 2011/11/18
    It's hard to monitor the fan behaviour under MACOSX 10.4 - because I cant force a certain temperature.
    When the system heats up, about 50-52°C, only the right fan begins to blow. Very silently.
    When the system gets hotter (about 55/57°C) the right fan gets a little bit noisier. The left fan is still off.
    When reaching the 59°/60°C marker then the left fan begins to blow too.

    It was very hard to reach 60°C under MACOSX with Quake2 (almost impossible). I had to run Halo + Quake2 together. But I didnt manage to get the CPU hotter than 60°C...

    When using using g4fancontrol at full speed (set temp border to 20°C) - I cant get the CPU temperature higher than 42°C.

    Under MOS I only have to run Settler2.5 to burn the machine higher than 62°C.
  • »02.04.14 - 21:05
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metatron
    Posts: 72 from 2011/11/18
    Can we expect that the fancontrol topic will be regarded within the next update for MorphOS?
    I am a bit afraid of damaging my PB running MOS on it - due to the very high temperatures (compared to MACOSX 10.4).
  • »15.04.14 - 07:10
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    JuLieN
    Posts: 35 from 2008/4/16
    From: France
    Same here, on a G4 12" iBook at 1.24 GHz. Just 5 minutes at 100 % CPU and the temperature reaches 57-58, getting the fan kick in loudly, and a after a few minutes more the iBook turns off...

    The temperature management of our Apple laptops by MorphOS has to be revised, I'd say. :)
    "A good bug is a dead bug" (Don Dailey)
  • »15.04.14 - 10:37
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    metatron wrote:
    Can we expect that the fancontrol topic will be regarded within the next update for MorphOS?
    I am a bit afraid of damaging my PB running MOS on it - due to the very high temperatures (compared to MACOSX 10.4).


    If the PowerBook/iBook switches off, it means the safety kicked in - which is good. However, if it switches off while fans are running at full speed, that suggests your laptop simply needs some love. Clean the dust to say the least - I would recommend replacing the thermal grease between the CPU, GPU, NB and the heatsink. If the fans are running at full speed, there's really nothing else we can do on software side.
  • »15.04.14 - 11:01
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metatron
    Posts: 72 from 2011/11/18
    I alreay cleaned my Powerbook heatsinks and fans. Looks like new :) See first post.
    I also replaced the thermal paste. But what is the use when one of both fans doesnt turn on at all? My left fan stands still until my CPU gets "burning" and the Powerbook turns off immediately.
    But both fans are working for sure! Under MAC OS X 10.4 both fans are spinning/blowing when playing some games.
    Edit:
    Just wanted to add: under MOS I cant get both fans blowing at maximum speed.

    [ Editiert durch metatron 15.04.2014 - 14:53 ]
  • »15.04.14 - 13:51
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    OK, I'll see if something can be done there...
  • »16.04.14 - 09:43
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    I have changed the shutdown temperature level (it's hardware controlled but set from software) and the way fans are triggered so that they both blow at the same speed. I'll be looking forward to some feedback from you guys once 3.6 is out. For now, I don't have enough time to make this stuff configurable.
  • »16.04.14 - 12:08
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metatron
    Posts: 72 from 2011/11/18
    Many thx for your quick efforts. I will check this as soon 3.6 is available.
    Do you have a clue about the planned release date of 3.6?
  • »16.04.14 - 12:16
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    JuLieN
    Posts: 35 from 2008/4/16
    From: France
    Let's hope this works. :)

    I think Metatron's idea is that the fans should start turning from a lower temperature but slower, so the CPU never really gets the chance to become so hot.

    Right now, my iBook turns off after 10 minutes of 100% CPU use... I don(t notice any fan until it's too late : two minutes before the iBook turns off they kick in and are very loud.
    "A good bug is a dead bug" (Don Dailey)
  • »16.04.14 - 12:29
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    It's a bit alarming if the machine switches off while the fans are spinning. They should be able to keep up even if the machine is very hot.
  • »16.04.14 - 14:05
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    metatron
    Posts: 72 from 2011/11/18
    Just wanted to push in a short update on this.
    A few days ago I met AKnabe at the classic Computer convention in Flechtorf (Germany).
    He told me to enable this option:
    Einstellungen (Settings?) -> System -> Laptop -> Advanced -> Narcoleptic Aluminium Powerbook Syndrome [x]

    Sadly this option didn't change anything. My Powerbook 5.9 keeps turning off immediately when setting it under heavy load. When the CPU Temperature rises over 62/64°C the machine turns off by hard. No fan spinning, nothing just like dead.
    The left fan still doesn't work. I booted Mac OSX 10.5 from an external Fw drive and the left can works pretty well.

    So I hope that there will be an update regarding the powermanagement with the next update.
  • »29.05.14 - 11:27
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