Quote:

That is correct. Since I have SATA card and onboard SATA is one device only anyway, all I could use is PCIE x4 card which is not monster (limited space) or low profile and PCIE x1 card, but I am not sure does Uboot supports it as primary display.

This are all REALLY serious question day next MOS version pops up and I try to install it.

Radeon 9250 is difficult to find, even I would like to stick it next to my Radeon 6870HD on X1000 just to see some 3D.

> Then I was misinformed about the FireMV 2400

Maybe you confused it with the FireMV 2200 PCIe (x16), which has the RV370 and would thus be similar to the X1050.

> The FireMV 2250 PCI could also be interesting.

I was not aware that there is a PCI version of that card, just PCIe x1 and x16.

> I am, however, confused as my info list the FireMV 2250 as an RV516 GPU.

This seems to be correct. FireMV model naming seems even less transparent than for normal Radeon series.

>> Drivers for Radeon HD cards won't benefit G5 Macs, as you were told already:
> https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=1215&start=94

> Why, I believe high end Macs have PCI-E?

As you have been told several times now in various threads, the last Radeon card that came with a PPC ROM was the X1900 (which is probably flashable onto x86 ROM X1950 cards), and the PPC Mac OpenFirmware lacks an x86 emulator so can't initialize non-PPC cards.

> you believe we shall use Radeons 9600/9800 and 1xxx for ever?

What I do or don't believe doesn't have any impact on the MorphOS Team's future plans anyway.

Quote:

Well, according to this page you can use both the PCI and PCI-E 1x slot if you aren't interested in using the single on-board SATA 2 connector:

"FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Which setup are possible with the board?

It's possible to use the Sam460ex in one of these setup:

PCI-Express 16x slot + PCI slot + PCI-Express 1x slot
PCI-Express 16x slot + PCI slot + SATA2 port"

So why not use a proper PCI-E card for SATA instead of a PCI card? That way you would free up the conventional PCI slot for a 9250 GFX card!

Also, reading up on the Sam again, made me realize how badly cripled this HW really is. Not only is it weak performance-wise, its design is astonishingly cripled. And it's very expensive, and there aren't any available anymore from the manufacturer. Makes me wonder why a MorphOS port was even considered.


Quote:

Well, Acube sells (sold, they have no Sam's in stock, and I guess it remains to bee seen if they will make some new ones at some point?) new Sam 460 systems with Radeon 9250 PCI! From their webshop:

Complete system built with:
AmigaOS4.1 pre-installed
Sam460ex - Lite
CPU CLOCK 1 Ghz
Case LC-Power 2039MB-MBS
512 MB DDR2
Radeon 9250 PCI - 128 MB
HD SATA2 Western Digital 500 GB
DVD burner
+ Envy24HT sound card

Maybe you can ask them if they can sell you just the GFX card, if e-bay is too difficult for you to use?

This is one of the best GFX cards available for OS4 + Sam (since there is no AGP in the Sam, no such cards can be used). It has proper 2D acceleration, 3D acceleration and Overlay support. No Radeon HD solution for OS4 offers that, they don't even have a v1.0 of the 2D acceleration enabled driver yet.


Quote:

Why don't you read the answer that people gives to your questions? Mac PPC computers require special PPC ROM's on the GFX cards. The firmware in the Pegasos 2 computer for example, has a x86 emulator that can execute the x86 code that's in "normal" GFX cards ROM's, but no PPC Mac has that, and when Apple dropped PPC and went x86, the market for GFX cards with those special PPC ROM's went away. AFAIK, the Radeon X1900 is the last/best option for PPC Macs.


Quote:

Well, properly supported Radeon 9xxx cards beats Radeon HD cards with only display any day of the week! And you must take into account that the Sam is very under-powered and wouldn't be able to make full use of those Radeon HD cards anyway, so I'd say that a Radeon 9xxx card is a very good match for the Sam.

As stated in another thread, graphics cards can be initialized without firmware.
This is not a new development.

If you doubt me, plug a PC Voodoo3 card into your Mac and boot MorphOS.

But there are disadvantages.
First, you would no longer have access to OpenFirmware, the card could not be initialized until the OS booted.
Further, you would probably have to select/setup the driver before the card was installed requiring an alternate video card for set up.
Second, a card without OpenFirmware will never work with OSX, so dual booting goes out the window.

Still, there are two more cards we haven't adopted yet, the X800XT and the X1900GT (AGP and PCI-E respectively) have Apple specific versions.

And the SAM460 can support virtually any PC PCI-E video card.


[ Edited by Jim 05.03.2014 - 11:58 ]

> all I could use is PCIE x4 card [...] and PCIE x1 card

You can use PCIe x16 graphics cards as the Sam460ex has a PEG slot (with only one fourth of lanes connected, though). Are there even PCIe x4 graphics cards?

> why not use a proper PCI-E card for SATA instead of a PCI card?

I guess because OS4 (or is Sam460's firmware the culprit here?) doesn't support a SATA card in the PCIe x1 slot.

> Makes me wonder why a MorphOS port was even considered.

Initial development of MorphOS for Sam460 was started in 2011.

>> Radeon 9250 is difficult to find, even I would like to stick it
>> next to my Radeon 6870HD on X1000 just to see some 3D.

> Acube sells [...] new Sam 460 systems with Radeon 9250 PCI! [...]
> Maybe you can ask them if they can sell you just the GFX card [...]?

The Sam460ex uses different PCI version with different voltage (3.3 V) than the X1000 (5 V). So caution is due.

>The Sam460ex uses different PCI version with different voltage (3.3 V) than the X1000 (5 V). So caution is due.

There is some vital information.

I can get boat loads of 9250 cards, but I would have some difficulty divining that specification.

>...Are there even PCIe x4 graphics cards?

Not that I know of.

> a card without OpenFirmware

I guess you mean "PPC ROM" here :-)

> the SAM460 can support virtually any PC PCI-E video card.

According to ACube, there seem to be some restrictions, for whatever reason:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9750&forum=3&start=10

>I guess you mean "PPC ROM" here

Not really, the card has extensions/hooks for OpenFirmware.
Is it a "PPC specific ROM"?
Yes, but just like a PC's video card has extensions to its bios, so does a PPC Mac.

"when using a PCI-Express graphic card, we sugges
t to use a Radeon HD2400 or newer
models. Older models like X600, X800 are not fully
compatible with the Sam460ex and may
not work. Some X1550 cards are reported to work OK"

weird. no explanation.

[ Edited by Jim 05.03.2014 - 15:24 ]

Quote:

[wolfmode]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sneak-preview,764-12.html
[/wolfmode]

PCI-cards that fit into both types of slots can handle both 3.3 and 5V.

Quick look on German ebay brought up:
1x Universal PC
2x 5V PC
1x Universal PowerMac

Taken to school yet again.

>>>> Radeon 9250 is difficult to find, even I would like to stick it
>>>> next to my Radeon 6870HD on X1000 just to see some 3D.

>>> Acube sells [...] new Sam 460 systems with Radeon 9250 PCI! [...]
>>> Maybe you can ask them if they can sell you just the GFX card [...]?

>> The Sam460ex uses different PCI version with different voltage (3.3 V)
>> than the X1000 (5 V). So caution is due.

> PCI-cards that fit into both types of slots can handle both 3.3 and 5V.

Yes, universal cards exist of course. Question is whether ACube's Radeon 9250 is a universal one so that it can be used with Nemo as well. I don't know. But I see that Alinea sells a universal 9250:

http://www.amiga-shop.net/product_info.php?products_id=648

And they also sell a 5 V 9000:

http://www.amiga-shop.net/product_info.php?products_id=647

> Taken to school yet again.

We already talked about PCI keying there (with focus on 64-bit PCI back then, but 32-bit PCI is the same in principle):

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8334&forum=11&start=7
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8334&forum=11&start=15

> I guess it remains to bee seen if they will make some new ones at some point?

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=8931&start=143

> graphics cards can be initialized without firmware.

Linux on PowerMac G5 Quad with PPC-flashed Radeon X1900 as primary graphics card and x86 ROM Radeon HD4650 as secondary graphics card:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp_IvG7h5_0

Thanks Andreas,
Asserting something and not providing proof is not that great an argument.
Cool example.
See folks? It can be done.
Keep in mind that there is a reason the X86 card is secondary, no output until the drivers are loaded.
Again, we would have no access to OpenFirmware unless an Apple card was installed as well.
But this could be done, giving us access to cards higher than the X1900 (although I just got back to using an R300 - I'm happy).

So...our current hardware is pretty damned powerful.
Any future hardware is likely to be more than adequate.
And there is a way to use the most modern GPUs.

Good times to be a MorphOS user.

Update:

> Linux on PowerMac G5 Quad with PPC-flashed Radeon X1900 as primary
> graphics card and x86 ROM Radeon HD4650 as secondary graphics card:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp_IvG7h5_0

Linux on PowerMac G5 Quad with PPC-flashed Radeon X1900 as primary graphics card and x86 ROM Radeon HD6570 as secondary graphics card:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYgFfRLYhLU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so35SrThHUs


Edit: added another video

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 27.04.2015 - 10:32 ]

> graphics cards can be initialized without firmware.

pega-1 wrote:

"you can already use standard PC-BIOS/AtomBIOS equipped R5xx range AGP cards with AGP G5 models and MorphOS 3.8"
https://morph.zone/modules/news/article_storyid_2215.html

:-D

I am glad Frank stated that publicly, as I was not sure if it was fair to repeat that.
Redrumloa PM'd me yesterday letting me know he had ordered a Radeon X1950Pro based AGP video card.
I have one ordered, but will probably receive it later than he will.

Still, compared to the X800XT, I only expect a modest performance boost.

The generally low prices on these cards is a real bonus.

[ Edited by Jim 21.05.2015 - 10:08 ]

How about a new wish list for 4.0?
PCIe G5 support, acceleration for the Radeon HD cards, and removing the need for Apple video card firmware so that we could use the HD cards on those G5s.
Sounds far out?
With developers like these, I could see this happening.

Quote:

Yup, I've got my fingers crossed it is delivered Saturday so I can try it out this weekend. Chances are it won't until after the holiday next week, but I'm holding on to hope! I want to benchmark it in my G5 2.5Ghz system!

@red
256 or 512MB ?

Would be interested in wether one could see&use the full 512MB and how much it would impact memory available to ABox (as you would go over 2GB addressed if all stayed the same).

Quote:

256M version. The only 512M cards I found were very expensive. While somewhat tempting, bragging rights alone isn't enough to pay the premium.

@red

40-50€ around here, not that super bad (well 256 seem to available for <20€ ...), and the added VMEM seems the only real benefit for me.

But even that ain't a biggie as I sofar had no problems with "just" 256MB.