BTW Andre
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1800 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    Jim schrieb:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    Remember, MorphOS also had some hefty promises that weren't kept


    Such as?



    Qbox.


    Qbox was no promise, but a draft idea. Well, sounded attractive to many (me included) and as the decided path which would be straightly followed, but this was rather wishful thinking.
    You may consider "Q" as MorphOS' post Amiga-compatible API, hence we will see Q once MorphOS moves on to new shores (whatever that API/box will actually get called then).
    http://via.i-networx.de/q86.htm
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »06.01.14 - 20:29
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4300 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Andreas, Zylesea,
    Its hard to tell what went on with all the attempts to re-write the history around this idea.
    But...it WAS mentioned (without anyone denying at the time that this was the eventual upgrade path), its not here, and we're not getting it.

    And that qualifies as a hefty promise that wasn't kept.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.01.14 - 21:14
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Well I do remember MorphOS promised SMP since day one en route,
    with sandboxing as solution. So I was amazed to see MOS people saying its not
    possible - allright in current state, but with sandboxing why not?

    So what I read now it is ARM/x86 transition without any SMP / dual processing
    even there is a development platform in form of dual core G5 Mac.
    Another valid target before x86/ARM transition could be X1000 / X2000.

    Hope this will be solved and that MorphOS will be modern AmigaOS like OS sooner then later.

    Not that it is most important, but would bring some more power, HD 1080 videos and so on.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »07.01.14 - 09:44
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1494 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    So what I read now it is ARM/x86 transition without any SMP / dual processing



    Err... who said there'd be no SMP with a CPU architecture change? The whole point of an architecture change is to drop legacy compatibility, which enables things like SMP.

    Quote:

    Not that it is most important, but would bring some more power, HD 1080 videos and so on.


    You can play 1080p videos on MorphOS already on the faster G5s.
  • »07.01.14 - 10:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9334 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The whole point of an architecture change is to drop legacy compatibility,
    > which enables things like SMP.

    Funny. I thought the whole point of dropping legacy compatibility was to change the architecture. Else you could break compatibility and implement SMP etc. on dual-G4 or dual-G5 :-)
  • »07.01.14 - 10:24
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Maybe this has been asked before, but would a partial shift make any sense? Like having a dual boot on G5: one with "classic" MorphOS and one with support of MP and SMP etc? As a way of testing and preparing people for the day when the "true" ISA shift is done? Plus, wouldn't it make people want to make programs for both systems and prepare them for the day they need to recompile it?

    My 2 cents.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »07.01.14 - 13:32
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1800 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > The whole point of an architecture change is to drop legacy compatibility,
    > which enables things like SMP.

    Funny. I thought the whole point of dropping legacy compatibility was to change the architecture. Else you could break compatibility and implement SMP etc. on dual-G4 or dual-G5 :-)


    And I thought it's actually about both.
    More powerful hardware (x64) and API without legacy limitations.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »07.01.14 - 13:35
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4300 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > The whole point of an architecture change is to drop legacy compatibility,
    > which enables things like SMP.

    Funny. I thought the whole point of dropping legacy compatibility was to change the architecture. Else you could break compatibility and implement SMP etc. on dual-G4 or dual-G5 :-)


    Actually, I am still not convinced that partial SMP and dual boxing could not be implemented on the PPC hardware.
    With virtualization support, it would be easier on an X64 system, but we are not talking about retaining Abox after the ISA jump.

    AND the latest PPCs feature a hypervisor, so it would be completely possible to run two boxed processes.

    Here is one challenge, state it can not be done, as an absolute.
    I don't think that is true.
    The developers just don't have the will or interest in doing it.

    And after having been beaten down for years by those making calls for an ISA change, I think they want to take the easy way out.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.01.14 - 14:12
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > The whole point of an architecture change is to drop legacy compatibility,
    > which enables things like SMP.

    Funny. I thought the whole point of dropping legacy compatibility was to change the architecture. Else you could break compatibility and implement SMP etc. on dual-G4 or dual-G5 :-)


    Actually, I am still not convinced that partial SMP and dual boxing could not be implemented on the PPC hardware.
    With virtualization support, it would be easier on an X64 system, but we are not talking about retaining Abox after the ISA jump.

    AND the latest PPCs feature a hypervisor, so it would be completely possible to run two boxed processes.

    Here is one challenge, state it can not be done, as an absolute.
    I don't think that is true.
    The developers just don't have the will or interest in doing it.

    And after having been beaten down for years by those making calls for an ISA change, I think they want to take the easy way out.


    I agree. If MacOS X can do it or Linux ...

    X1000 supports hyper ... but Linux or OS4 doesm`t use it. That would be nice platform to start the sandbox building and making MorphOS platform (CPU) independent as much as possible. Next thing is really RadeonHD support. I am not here to decide for the team, but I speak how I would imagine doing things right ...
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »07.01.14 - 16:25
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9334 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    >> Radeon HD 3d drivers [...] appear to be pursued outside Hyperion

    > Actually, there're two distinct projects for this. One is inside Hyperion (Gallium3D),
    > while the other is inside A-Eon (Warp3D), i.e. outside Hyperion. Both are being done
    > by the Frieden brothers, though.

    Apparently, A-Eon has commissioned Hans de Ruiter to develop Warp3D support for Radeon HD cards with Southern Islands GPU (HD77xx/78xx/79xx, R5 240+, R7, R9) in addition to the Evergreen GPU (HD5xxx) and Northern Islands GPU (HD6xxx) support worked on by the Frieden brothers:

    http://www.a-eon.com/?news=01-04-2015

    "Work on Warp3D for the Evergreen RadeonHD series is continuing and a driver should also be released soon. We are also fomulating new plans to invest in Warp3D's future."
    http://www.a-eon.com/PDF/News_Release_Warp3D_SI.pdf


    Edit: added the fact that the HD5xxx driver is also supposed to support HD6xxx as announced originally

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 07.01.2017 - 01:57 ]
  • »02.04.15 - 11:06
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    WB_Coder
    Posts: 66 from 2014/5/1
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Update:

    "Work on Warp3D for the Evergreen RadeonHD series is continuing and a driver should also be released soon. We are also fomulating new plans to invest in Warp3D's future."
    http://www.a-eon.com/PDF/News_Release_Warp3D_SI.pdf


    That hints at other 3D solutions from Hyperion not being completed any time soon, from a company that has gotten inside information from the Hyperion developers in the past.

    It is really disappointing for AmigaOS4.x users to have no apparent progress made on 3D drivers after so many years of work. They simply don't have enough developers (or cash to pay developers) to get much work done for Hyperion (either that, or the guy(s) doing the work are just not up to the task, or knowledgeable in that type of work). I am glad I use MorphOS, but do wish that newer video cards and better 3D support were offered, so we could get some more advanced 3D games to run on the latest version of MorphOS.
    WB_Coder = Wanna Be Coder
  • »03.04.15 - 03:09
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2428 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Update:

    >> Radeon HD 3d drivers [...] appear to be pursued outside Hyperion

    > Actually, there're two distinct projects for this. One is inside Hyperion (Gallium3D),
    > while the other is inside A-Eon (Warp3D), i.e. outside Hyperion. Both are being done
    > by the Frieden brothers, though.

    Apparently, A-Eon has commissioned Hans de Ruiter to develop Warp3D support for Radeon HD cards with Southern Islands GPU (HD7xxx, R7, R9) in addition to the Evergreen GPU (HD5xxx) support worked on by the Frieden brothers:

    http://www.a-eon.com/?news=01-04-2015

    "Work on Warp3D for the Evergreen RadeonHD series is continuing and a driver should also be released soon. We are also fomulating new plans to invest in Warp3D's future."
    http://www.a-eon.com/PDF/News_Release_Warp3D_SI.pdf


    http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7363&start=40#94760

    "The Southern Islands driver is a very different driver to the Evergreen driver. They are both separate (costly) projects and consequently have different budgets."

    "No plans to merge them - but it is for another good reason - to be revealed in the future."

    Wonder if this is IP cracks/divides in the shadow of Hyperion's bankruptcy? Messy to have two separate solutions in parallell...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »03.04.15 - 08:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2428 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    WB_Coder wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Update:

    "Work on Warp3D for the Evergreen RadeonHD series is continuing and a driver should also be released soon. We are also fomulating new plans to invest in Warp3D's future."
    http://www.a-eon.com/PDF/News_Release_Warp3D_SI.pdf


    That hints at other 3D solutions from Hyperion not being completed any time soon, from a company that has gotten inside information from the Hyperion developers in the past.

    It is really disappointing for AmigaOS4.x users to have no apparent progress made on 3D drivers after so many years of work. They simply don't have enough developers (or cash to pay developers) to get much work done for Hyperion (either that, or the guy(s) doing the work are just not up to the task, or knowledgeable in that type of work).




    Like I read on moobunny:

    "A-Eonkit sells you a 3000Euro X1000
    A-Eonkit sells you a 30Euro 2D driver
    A-Eonkit sells you a ???Euro RC1 driver that doesn't work on the 3000Euro system they sold you
    A-Eonkit makes you buy a new gfx card from hem"


    "It takes guts to say to your customers 'Now you can throw away those old no longer supported cards and buy new ones !'"

    Interesting indeed. Maybe this is why we are not seeing any testemonials or benchmarks, people expected the HW they had to be supported (the GFX cards that were bundled with their Sam/x1000 systems), instead support came for stuff nobody have?

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40078&forum=33

    All very strange IMHO...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »03.04.15 - 08:52
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9334 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > "[...] A-Eonkit makes you buy a new gfx card from hem"

    Graphics cards with Southern Islands GPU are widely available.
  • »03.04.15 - 09:09
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > "[...] A-Eonkit makes you buy a new gfx card from hem"

    Graphics cards with Southern Islands GPU are widely available.


    While every progress is good, its a bit strange situation. Up to now, and even now x1000 is sold with 5000-6000HD cards. Now, Warp3D is first released for 7000 cards (even many users pushed development by paying for RadeonHD 2D drivers).

    "Normal path" would be the same, but other way around - support what users mostly have, then push the limits upwards. Especially since 7000 cards are so big many SAM460 users will not be able to use them and even on x1000 people might need to sacrifice two slots.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »03.04.15 - 17:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9334 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > A-Eon has commissioned Hans de Ruiter to develop Warp3D support for
    > Radeon HD cards with Southern Islands GPU (HD7xxx, R7, R9)

    AmigaKit writes:

    "we are only half way through paying for the development cost and that was a 5 digit sum. The project is currently in the red but it was something that had to be done at the time to get RadeonHD 3D running on the X1000 platform."
    http://www.amigans.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2373
  • »24.03.16 - 22:00
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
    From: Antwerp, Belgium
    Grmmpf so they use me as a creditcard. I payed for goods in the amigakit-store said to be in stock 8 march, still not shipped. I hate that.

    And about the graphic solutions for OS4.x .. Well in an ideal world it would be listed in a very overseeable way as on Morphos.de, that's as clear as it gets.
    But on the other hand, back in the day you also had different solutions for the classic so what if the suddenly come up with a Morphos version of that warp3d nova driver. If that's even possible.

    Anyway I am still not tempted to buy new OS4 capable hardware, my AmigaOne SE works just fine for what I use it.
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »25.03.16 - 15:48
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    bennymee
    Posts: 53 from 2004/4/14
    From: Netherlands
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > "[...] A-Eonkit makes you buy a new gfx card from hem"

    Graphics cards with Southern Islands GPU are widely available.


    While every progress is good, its a bit strange situation. Up to now, and even now x1000 is sold with 5000-6000HD cards. Now, Warp3D is first released for 7000 cards (even many users pushed development by paying for RadeonHD 2D drivers).

    "Normal path" would be the same, but other way around - support what users mostly have, then push the limits upwards. Especially since 7000 cards are so big many SAM460 users will not be able to use them and even on x1000 people might need to sacrifice two slots.




    Bought a single slot Radeon HD7750, no problem in my Sam460 alias Amigaone 500.
    My big card, Radeon HD7950, works ok by connecting it with a pci express flat cable.

    The question is, put R&D in creating drivers or focus on one generation and let the users buy a relatively new cheap card.
  • »25.03.16 - 18:34
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