BTW Andre
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9334 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I have asked 1 million times there, if its just two twins and fake Canadian, [...]
    > those two will do OS 4.2

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=9360&start=58
  • »06.01.14 - 11:18
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Jambalah
    Posts: 800 from 2008/3/30
    From: Roma, Italy
    Quote:

    vox wrote:

    That is your illusion and fear, as many have exhibited.




    No fears and no illusions here since death has touched my shoulder yet making me stronger.
    I only wrote a suggestion to Jim which seems to be a mature person and a man able enough to act in a good way to avoid flames or whatelse. And what I read can only confirm this. And I'm glad of this.
    But I undestand you as I've read all your story. Not completely agree with you but I understand.
    Pegasos II 1 ghz
    Powermac G4 Quicksilver with Sonnet Encore 1.8 ghz
    Powermac G4 MDD single 1.25 ghz, silenced for ears health...
    Powermac G5 dual 2.7 ghz
  • »06.01.14 - 11:43
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Jambalah wrote:
    Quote:

    vox wrote:

    That is your illusion and fear, as many have exhibited.




    No fears and no illusions here since death has touched my shoulder yet making me stronger.
    I only wrote a suggestion to Jim which seems to be a mature person and a man able enough to act in a good way to avoid flames or whatelse. And what I read can only confirm this. And I'm glad of this.
    But I undestand you as I've read all your story. Not completely agree with you but I understand.



    So no fears anymore, with good people I behave nice, with badass I level up.

    Currently I see that ELIYAHU, AMIGADAVE and KRONOS need to change their stance or simply not communicate with me to maintain equilibrium

    Jim is Jim don`t be someone elses lawyar (liar :-) and judge on yourself.
    I am 35 years old Ph D in social sciencis with knowledge of several languages,
    international experience and scientific career. Yes, people got hooked up on fact I am Serb and excersise Serbophobia, and fact that I am a Rasta, which carries many stereotypes too

    But often they show how stupid they are, all right?
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »06.01.14 - 11:57
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I have asked 1 million times there, if its just two twins and fake Canadian, [...]
    > those two will do OS 4.2

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=9360&start=58


    Please I have came here for rescue not to think about them anymore
    until time comes for legal process.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »06.01.14 - 12:00
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    zukow
    Posts: 448 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    @Vox

    Calm down. Write one post per day or so. You are flooding all forum with pointless threads.

    WE KNOW THAT:
    - OS4 machines are slow
    - OS4 machines are overpriced
    - OS4 machines don't have proper driver
    - OS4 isn't developed well
    - most of problems with OS4 won't be fixed in the future and they are covered up
    - Amigakit doesn't provide decent service for sold OS4 machines

    We know that since many (about 10) years and we choose MorphOS and not follow OS4 crowd. We can pay 100 euro for better machine than X1000. We can use laptops, tiny mac minis and probably noone will take a loan to buy MorphOS machine. We (morphos users and developers) has this situation since 2003-2004 year. Nothing changed except price drop for used apple machines. It's not our fault that users choose OS4 and OS4 machines over MorphOS. We can only say "I told You so". In fact You are in better position than other OS4 users. They still believe in mystical OS4 supremacy with Radeons HD only with 2D support :), new machines and new software.
  • »06.01.14 - 12:36
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @vox

    Quote:

    It simply doesn`t comply to EU and UK regulations, no matter what do you say or write. You just cannot sell "product" with a "promise"


    Yes you can. As long as they tell the truth about what they sell. They never claimed it was a finished product out of the box. As long as the hardware isn't faulty, it aint broken. Remember Windows 95 and what a load of crap that was? They weren't able to sue Microsoft for not living up to peoples expectations. So what makes you think it will be any different here?
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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  • »06.01.14 - 12:39
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4300 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I have asked 1 million times there, if its just two twins and fake Canadian, [...]
    > those two will do OS 4.2

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=9360&start=58


    Please I have came here for rescue not to think about them anymore
    until time comes for legal process.


    Luckily, you found an alternative where empty promises are not made.
    On that issue, you have my sympathy.
    That list Andreas is fond of mentioning still offers no real proof that OS4 is significantly more than a product of the Frieden brothers.

    And so many future features have been promised, multi-core support, complete hardware drivers, Radeon HD 3d drivers (well that does appear to be pursued outside Hyperion), OpenGL, etc.

    But you should have been aware of the extremely slow pace of past development.
    How long was os4 a beta?

    I actually have some sympathy for the developers of OS4.
    Only two full time paid developers?
    Yet Hyperion expects a few featured operating system.

    Really, I'd lay the root of your problem at one person's feet, Ben Hermans.

    Was it not for Hermans, there would not be two "camps", and the Frieden brothers (who I do not feel any real animosity toward) would not have had to spend years developing a second rate copy of an existing solution (and yes, having access to the 3.1 source doesn't mean the OS is significantly based on that material).

    Welcome to the convoluted world of the "real" Amiga.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.01.14 - 12:41
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    @Vox

    Calm down. Write one post per day or so. You are flooding all forum with pointless threads.

    WE KNOW THAT:
    - OS4 machines are slow
    - OS4 machines are overpriced
    - OS4 machines don't have proper driver
    - OS4 isn't developed well
    - most of problems with OS4 won't be fixed in the future and they are covered up
    - Amigakit doesn't provide decent service for sold OS4 machines

    We know that since many (about 10) years and we choose MorphOS and not follow OS4 crowd. We can pay 100 euro for better machine than X1000. We can use laptops, tiny mac minis and probably noone will take a loan to buy MorphOS machine. We (morphos users and developers) has this situation since 2003-2004 year. Nothing changed except price drop for used apple machines. It's not our fault that users choose OS4 and OS4 machines over MorphOS. We can only say "I told You so". In fact You are in better position than other OS4 users. They still believe in mystical OS4 supremacy with Radeons HD only with 2D support :), new machines and new software.


    Good. But there are multiple threads I am in, and don`t count on post per day,
    its not flooding, its active member for a change.

    And I don`t promote OS4 here at all and neither do mention all above.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »06.01.14 - 12:53
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Quote:

    (and yes, having access to the 3.1 source doesn't mean the OS is significantly based on that material).


    In theory, having access to the source code should save time developing. But the problem is that when they started to do the port (in 2001?), technology had already taken a giant leap forward and so much of the code was so outdated that a complete rewrite was necessary, like you said.

    But the bigger problem is all the things they have kept. Like TripOS and Kickstart. TripOS was a giant pain in the ass even in Amiga days because of it's inability to flush memory. And what sense does it make to have Kickstart in a machine without Kickstart? Saving time is my bet.

    I also think this happened because the first version if AmigaOS 4 was supposed to be a straight port from 68K to PPC and nothing more, and save all the good stuff for AmigaOS 5. So it was imperative that the new AmigaOS resembled the old one as much as possible and now we/they have to live with it.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »06.01.14 - 12:55
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4300 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    I also think this happened because the first version if AmigaOS 4 was supposed to be a straight port from 68K to PPC and nothing more, and save all the good stuff for AmigaOS 5. So it was imperative that the new AmigaOS resembled the old one as much as possible and now we/they have to live with it.


    "a straight port from 68K to PPC"

    Pretty dumb idea.

    Different hardware, how are you going to do a "straight port" with n OS that does not isolate everything with a driver?
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.01.14 - 13:20
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @Jim

    The idea was to have AmigaOS 3.1 but on PPC. There where machines on the way and they needed AmigaOS for it. Sadly, they went for Hyperion instead of MorphOS (because the developers didn't want to give up their independence for Amiga Inc., who wanted a say in everything including economics) and gave them 4 months to make it. As we know, it took many years before they had something remotely working.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »06.01.14 - 13:24
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4300 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Sorry Yasu,
    Its hard to place yourself in the mind set of people at the time.
    Its rather like the early Christian's conviction that Christ was due back at any moment.

    Hey folks, the Amiga is dead (and so is Jesus).
    No proof to the contrary (in either case) has ever been successfully submitted.

    You can go on faith alone, but I find that is not enough to sustain me.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.01.14 - 13:32
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @Jim

    IF they could have kept all their promises AmigaOS 4 and 5 would have been a hell of a lot better than MorphOS and that probably kept people going. Then the Red vs Blue war started which divided the camps for 10 years. Remember, MorphOS also had some hefty promises that weren't kept and that was used against them as proof they where inferior to the "soon to come" AmigaOS 4.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »06.01.14 - 13:44
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4300 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    True that whoever was responsible for the Qbox myths should be held accountable.
    And AOS5 did sound like an interesting idea.
    But to continue to place your faith in Ben Hermans and Bill McEwen when all the evidence pointed to the foolishness of such a course?
    You can't ask me for my continued sympathy for that action.

    [ Edited by Jim 06.01.2014 - 14:22 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.01.14 - 14:21
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 888 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    Remember, MorphOS also had some hefty promises that weren't kept


    Such as?
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »06.01.14 - 14:25
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4300 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    Remember, MorphOS also had some hefty promises that weren't kept


    Such as?



    Qbox.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.01.14 - 14:29
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @Jim

    I guess when you are so invested in something for so long, you don't want to stop cold turkey. I don't hate AmigaOS 4 and it's community. Most people (not the most vocal ones) seems to just enjoy the system for what it is. That's fine by me.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »06.01.14 - 14:59
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4300 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    @Jim

    I guess when you are so invested in something for so long, you don't want to stop cold turkey. I don't hate AmigaOS 4 and it's community. Most people (not the most vocal ones) seems to just enjoy the system for what it is. That's fine by me.


    I never said I had any ill feeling toward the community, Hyperion though...
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.01.14 - 15:04
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9334 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > we choose MorphOS and not follow OS4 crowd.

    True, there wasn't even any OS4 when I chose MorphOS.

    > We (morphos users and developers) has this situation since 2003-2004 year.
    > Nothing changed except price drop for used apple machines.

    We shouldn't forget that it wasn't all roses during the 3 years between late 2006 and late 2009, i.e. after the last new Pegasos II boards were sold and before the first PPC Macs were supported. The Efika 5200B was in no way a substitute for the Pegasos II, which made the Pegasos even more desired and rare on the used market. OS4 running on the Pegasos II since early 2009 didn't really help the situation either.
  • »06.01.14 - 15:10
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    It's amazing how far we have come since 2.4. Heck, MorphOS is way better now with 3.4 then when I first tried it with 3.1 :-)
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »06.01.14 - 17:00
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9334 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Radeon HD 3d drivers [...] appear to be pursued outside Hyperion

    Actually, there're two distinct projects for this. One is inside Hyperion (Gallium3D), while the other is inside A-Eon (Warp3D), i.e. outside Hyperion. Both are being done by the Frieden brothers, though.
  • »06.01.14 - 19:18
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9334 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > much of the code was so outdated that a complete rewrite was necessary

    As is public knowledge, Hyperion didn't get the code from Amiga Inc. but from Olaf "olsen" Barthel who had put the code in shape so that it was compilable by non-obscure C compilers. Thus, Hyperion didn't have to completely rewrite the OS but only the very low-level parts.

    > the bigger problem is all the things they have kept. Like TripOS and Kickstart. [...]
    > what sense does it make to have Kickstart in a machine without Kickstart?

    What exactly do you mean by "TripOS"? If you mean the BCPL code, then no, this was kicked out of the OS (bar aux-handler and port-handler) with v2.0 in 1990, 11 years prior to Hyperion taking over. If you mean the dos.library API, then that's what MorphOS implements (and expands upon) as well.

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=23137&forum=2&start=900#381607
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=861432

    Regarding Kickstart in OS4, is it really so different from the components inside MorphOS' boot.img, except that one OS uses several files while the other uses one single all-in-one file?

    > I also think this happened because the first version if AmigaOS 4 was supposed
    > to be a straight port from 68K to PPC and nothing more, and save all the good
    > stuff for AmigaOS 5. So it was imperative that the new AmigaOS resembled the
    > old one as much as possible and now we/they have to live with it.

    ...except that right from the beginning, Hyperion didn't stick to their contract with Amiga Inc. that intended for a straight port ;-)


    Edit: added info about port-handler

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 27.08.2015 - 10:18 ]
  • »06.01.14 - 19:54
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9334 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The idea was to have AmigaOS 3.1 but on PPC. [...] they went for Hyperion [...] and
    > gave them 4 months to make it. As we know, it took many years before they had
    > something remotely working.

    That was mostly because Hyperion willfully decided to not stick to their contract with Amiga Inc. and instead went for a much costlier solution than just doing a straight port (with transparent emulation where reasonable).
  • »06.01.14 - 20:07
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9334 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > whoever was responsible for the Qbox myths should be held accountable.

    There doesn't seem to be too much consensus as to whether it was only a myth or more than that:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=8904&start=112
  • »06.01.14 - 20:12
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