Video Editing software for MorphOS
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    MorphDelf
    Posts: 274 from 2004/2/20
    From: Oslo, Norway
    Amiga was known for its great video editing capabilities back in the days. Now we sit with PowerBook's and G5's. MorphOS is the perfect OS for video editing. Its light, requires less ram and got great multitasking capabilities.

    I remember that I worked with iMovie on my PowerBook 12" back in the days. My PowerBook 15" is slightly faster than that one, and I am certain that video editing would be much more fun on MorphOS. I tried to do video editing on Pegasos II and using Blender for it. It went quite well, but I am looking for a program that have totally focus on video editing.

    I am sure that more people than me would really be thankfull for such software. I am also sure that the one making such software for MorphOS could set price of 62,- euro or more and sell because many OSX users on PPC Macs asks me those questions when I am promoting them to install MorphOS.

    MorphOS got the speed and enviroment, which users would love to work with, if there was a video editing software for the platform.

    Maybe someone out there want to? I think hundreds of Morphians would love you forever if you did. Hope the one is out there somewhere. Are you?
  • »03.11.13 - 10:13
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2064 from 2003/2/24
    a) writing some GUI-wrapper for memcoder or else should be doable

    b) back when you were using iMovie on that iBook, you surely edited SD-quality video, today everyone expects HD-quality

    Now about " hundreds of Morphians would love you forever if you did" ..... that is some quite serious threat !!


    ;)


    Well honestly if we take a realistic look at the number of MorphOS-user and divide that by 10 (assuming 10% are interested in editing video on G4/5 class computers) we hardly get around 100 users.

    Puh !! Saved by the bell !!

    But then " dozens of Morphians would love you forever if you did" still doesn't sound that good......
  • »03.11.13 - 10:37
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    MorphDelf,
    Quote:

    Amiga was known for its great video editing capabilities back in the days. Now we sit with PowerBook's and G5's. MorphOS is the perfect OS for video editing. Its light, requires less ram and got great multitasking capabilities.


    Actually, it is absolutely not the perfect OS for video editing. (Also, the Commodore Amiga became a mild success in the video editing niche due to hardware features. The operating system had relatively little to do with it.)

    As you will know, in order to maintain compatibility with old applications, MorphOS does not utilize more than 2GB. So, no matter how little memory MorphOS may use, any computer with 100 EUR worth of memory (16GB+) running either Linux, MacOS or Windows will be vastly more suited for memory-intense video editing.

    Regarding multitasking, any performance advantages that may or may not exist in this area are completely dwarfed by the fact that MorphOS only supports a single processor core per computer. Modern video editing applications simultaneously utilize multiple processor cores and graphics cards to accelerate post-processing effects, etc.

    Video editing is an absolute fringe application with extreme hardware requirements. If you do not fully support the latest and greatest hardware options, you are simply not competitive regardless of how great your operating system is in other areas.

    Would it still be nice to have some video editing tool for the occasional small editing job? Certainly, but only because of convenience, not performance.
  • »03.11.13 - 11:39
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Tom01
    Posts: 171 from 2009/9/20
    I am using Blender for video editing, even on OS X.
  • »03.11.13 - 13:05
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    cheesegrate
    Posts: 35 from 2004/8/25
    From: north queensla...
    it would have been great if motionstudio was released sigh http://amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-10-00023-EN.html
  • »03.11.13 - 14:22
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 898 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    This topic was covered before.

    Blender is available.
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  • »04.11.13 - 11:28
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    MarK
    Posts: 641 from 2004/1/25
    From: Prague, The Cz...
    Well, I don't know the Blender video editing capabilities, but i guess, we would be satisfied with something, that can do quick frame preview, add some subtitles, texts, and some transition effects, and make them preview-visible in somehow realtime... and finally render a complete high quality output video, i don't need it to make everything in realtime, but I'd like to make some simple cutting etc.

    Imo, I'm able to write a simple app, that will do all this effects (well I have already written lots of such effects already) with pictures, not with streams, so if there would be some video2img converter, then I can work with these images, make changes to them (transitions, subtitles...), and then I'd need some images2video conversion to make high quality movie back from that...

    Martin.
  • »04.11.13 - 14:48
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    I wouldn't let these guys discourage you Mark.
    After all, we would not expect a completely competitive software package.
    As long as it has some utility, I'm all for it.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.11.13 - 17:59
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1238 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Yes, that sounds like great innovation, and what is there to lose, I would only encourage your idea ... go for it !!
    MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.17,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5.
  • »04.11.13 - 19:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2792 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Since HD video is not required, and many times not wanted, due to bandwidth limitations for some websites, I still think that a SD quality video editing program for MorphOS3.x would be useful to many people who create content for the Internet.

    Any new software that works well, will be a welcome addition for most MorphOS users. As for only 10% being interested in any kind of video editing software, I would guess that the software starved MorphOS users would probably show an interest of maybe as high as 30% to 40% of the current users, in such software, which could reach well above 100 users.

    It is my guess that only 10% of MorphOS users are feeling satisfied with the amount of currently available software for our favorite OS to run. Frankly, I think that ALL software development for MorphOS should be encouraged, as even if the final product is not wonderful, the experience of programming anything for MorphOS will be a good learning experience for future software projects.

    So my vote is for anyone interested in creating such software, to go forward and create. I would buy it in SD, or HD versions.


    [ Edited by amigadave 04.11.2013 - 10:59 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »04.11.13 - 19:56
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    MarK wrote:
    Imo, I'm able to write a simple app, that will do all this effects (well I have already written lots of such effects already) with pictures, not with streams, so if there would be some video2img converter, then I can work with these images, make changes to them (transitions, subtitles...), and then I'd need some images2video conversion to make high quality movie back from that...



    I would not want to discourage you, but this approach will mean a very very slow app, even on the best MorphOS hardware. You really have to be able to play the stream without decoding it to single frames. The ram/hd overhead this would add will kill all performance.

    @adave

    HD not required? In 2013? Then better not waste time on such an app at all.

    [ Edited by jacadcaps 04.11.2013 - 20:45 ]
  • »04.11.13 - 20:44
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >HD not required? In 2013? Then better not waste time on such an app at all.


    While that may initially sound a little harsh, I am afraid I would have to agree.
    If speed becomes a problem, limiting your use to lower resolutions makes sense.
    But SD is pretty dead.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.11.13 - 21:25
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    XDelusion
    Posts: 602 from 2010/10/27
    Imagine if we had Adobe Premiere and After Effects as well as the hardware to run them on to boot? Oh to dream!

    So what can Blender do video wise? I always thought Blender was a 3D modeling program, never really messed with it much.
    "I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it." - Jack Handey

    Registered MorphOS user, Amiga user, and Atari 8-bit user.
  • »04.11.13 - 23:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2028 from 2003/6/4
    I was thinking myself on writing something like videoclipper that is available for OS4 which is more or less a GUI for Mencoder but from what I read quite okay for very basic stuff. And sure, our machines aren't the fastest ones and probably not the first choice for making massive video art, but for some simple stuff it should be okay. I was actually thinking of using Hollywood with the inbuild AVcodec and MUI Royale for that job. But I haven't progressed on this further than a few thoughts yet.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »04.11.13 - 23:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2792 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    I think that any software is better than none, so if all our hardware can handle is SD content, then having a simple video editor that only handles SD quality would be preferable than no video editing software at all.

    But I understand that many users will disagree with my opinion on software development, particularly programmers who would see the effort as a waste of valuable time.

    Perhaps our hardware can handle some resolution higher than SD, but lower than full 1080P.

    [ Edited by amigadave 04.11.2013 - 14:45 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »04.11.13 - 23:43
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    MorphDelf
    Posts: 274 from 2004/2/20
    From: Oslo, Norway
    Heh...

    You all know that a Pegasos II can show HD movie, right? HD doesn't mean it got to be MP4 H264. MorphOS is more than capable to show MPEG2 HD content.

    I watch series in 720p HD on my PowerBook. I did the same thing on my MacMini.

    MorphOS is a marked for this. A PowerMac G5 sure got enough power too.
  • »04.11.13 - 23:45
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @MorphDelf

    That was kind of what I was getting at.
    I've been able to view most 720p content for some time.
    And I'm sure the G5 should prove adequate for 1080p.

    And we don't really have to have resolutions as high as either of those to still be useful.
    I stream content all the time at lower quality standards then those.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »05.11.13 - 02:52
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 898 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    My understanding is that Blender can be used to make 2D as well as 3D movies.
    If you need tutorial videos search youtube for them.
    You may get to like it.
    I have used it for years to make 3D art.

    As far as decoding single frames I think an SSD is adequate for speed purposes.
    I have a samsung 840 256gb SSD in my G5.
    It is quite spiffy.
    Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 2GB, ATI 9700M Pro 128mb
    1TB hd, DL-DVD Burner, Netgear pcmcia wireless card.
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  • »05.11.13 - 03:04
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    dekanyz
    Posts: 94 from 2013/2/6
    From: Hungary
    MarK,
    Quote:

    Imo, I'm able to write a simple app, that will do all this effects (well I have already written lots of such effects already) with pictures

    I think, nobody will angry to you, if you do something like gimp - instead of video editor - if you have more experience with image processing...
    Feel free to choose the app which is more fun for you!! ;)
  • »05.11.13 - 12:23
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    MarK
    Posts: 641 from 2004/1/25
    From: Prague, The Cz...
    Well, SD, HD, 4K, 3D, what's the problem? The only difference is the dimension, and that's the issue of speed, so when I think about it, it's only a matter of speed, not a matter, that it can't be done, perhaps it can't do realtime effects in HD resolution, but it can be done, rendered into a video stream and played.

    MarK.
  • »05.11.13 - 12:59
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 545 from 2007/7/29
    The disk speed is not so important here. The processor has to calculate the data. That takes most fo the time. This is why professionals use fast CPUs with multiple cores. This makes the most difference, not harddrive or SSD.

    I also think that it should be up to the user what quality he wants. If he can wait for days or weeks - why not? Many of us did the same when rendering 3D images in the old days, so I would wait for a high quality video for some days if it is necessary.

    BTW: there is MovieShop for VLab Motion. It requires that card to run. Could it be patched to pretend a card inside? Then it may be used without a VLab Motion, too. Higher resolution settings and there we are. Should be powerful enough for most of us. Add a VHI driver for modern cards like one or two good cameras (USB, Firewire) and we can create our own movies again.
  • »05.11.13 - 17:52
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2650 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    The disk speed is not so important here.


    You do realise that a Full HD stream decoded to single frame images means ~207360000 bytes per second in terms of IDE bandwidth? (1920*1080*2(16 bit)*50fps). Even if you used jpg images, it'd still be much, but then you need extra CPU power to decode them too.

    Those streams really are compressed for a reason...
  • »05.11.13 - 21:14
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Yomgui
    Posts: 348 from 2004/8/31
    From: Québec - Canada
    connor, jacadcaps: both of you are in truth.

    In HD world AND if you need realtime display, you need a fast storage and fast data manipulation solutions.

    But... only if realtime is needed. Does it realy needed?
    Most of time not, or if yes, a temporary SD display is enough.
    Think about the time where even displaying an editing in SD was not «simple».
    And now... next project!
  • »06.11.13 - 14:28
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 545 from 2007/7/29
    jacadcaps,
    Quote:

    You do realise that a Full HD stream decoded to single frame images means ~207360000 bytes per second in terms of IDE bandwidth? (1920*1080*2(16 bit)*50fps).


    yes. This is why professionals in this field use RAID1 because a single harddrive and often also SSD is too slow for that.

    Quote:

    Even if you used jpg images, it'd still be much, but then you need extra CPU power to decode them too.

    Those streams really are compressed for a reason...

    ... which I said. If we were professionals in this area, MOS-based systems would be not sufficient because of lacking memory protection for stability, general big file support, CPU power and more. But for those of us who do not produce broadcast movies all day but just occasionally, waiting for the output video for some hours (or maybe days) can be accepted. We did the same when rendering with Real3D many years ago. I guess a better result is worth the wait fo most of us. If not, do not even think of using MOS at all.
  • »07.11.13 - 17:52
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    discreetfx
    Posts: 327 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    If someone is going to work on video editing software for MorphOS don't forget to checkout this blueprint (source code) on how to do it right.

    http://www.discreetfx.com/openvideotoaster.html
    DiscreetFX
    Making your
    Digital Films
    More Effective!
  • »18.11.13 - 09:54
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