No Rave3D.library for R300 ?!!?
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Jupp3
    Posts: 1192 from 2003/2/24
    From: Helsinki, Finland
    As pointed by some others already, this is in no way a "downgrade", as no hardware with 3D support lost Warp3D support. R300 just didn't get any. Yet.

    This is the first ever version with "any" 3D support on R300. I rather have OpenGL support now, rather than OpenGL and Warp3D support "perhaps later", if anyone bothers writing the latter.

    And regarding R300 support, I'd rather have all OpenGL bugs fixed first before anyone bothers with Warp3D :-)

    I don't have any experience with it, but I don't think Warp3D is too complex. Of course there's the issue of "having to include all undocumented bugs", to get games that do wrong things work "correctly".

    Of course Warp3D is a MUCH bigger issue on AmigaOS4, as their only OpenGL implementation (forgetting any software rendering only MESA compiles) depends on it.

    Also, I might be able to do some "generic OpenGL code" for any3rd party library reimplementation.

    [ Edited by Jupp3 20.06.2013 - 15:45 ]
  • »20.06.13 - 13:30
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:

    BSzili wrote:
    I'm interested in doing this, although I'm currently busy with RTTR. I'll contact Alain Thellier.


    Thanks BSzilli! :-)

    PS - I miss the Steed avatar!
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  • »20.06.13 - 15:45
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  • JKD
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    JKD
    Posts: 447 from 2003/4/4
    From: South of heaven
    Waited a long while for MOS3.2 on the PB, to be honest it was a bit of a disappointment not to have the same MorphOS experience on the PB G4 as other MOS platforms...ie. pretty much full support of all Amiga hacks (incl. Warp3D.)

    Those ancient games were pretty much the only eye candy fun stuff that's good to while away some time and make a fun demonstration. I guess GLquake still works?

    I don't do anything particularly useful with my PBG4, it's simply nostalgia so it is what it is I guess...can't complain too much since I couldn't program my way out of a pair of brackets.
  • »20.06.13 - 19:26
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Henes
    Posts: 495 from 2003/6/14
    I believe we have access to much much more quality games using tinygl than warp3d.

    If I have a quick look at my hd, I can see aquaria, chromium, foobilliard, fortis, freespace2, glhexen2, homeworld, neverball, various quake 1/2/3 ports, rrootage, return to castle wolfenstein, torcs, ufo alien invasion, virtual grand prix 2, xmoto etc...
    So, even if warp3d stuff don't run on r300+ yet, there are probably many working 3d accelerated games to play today...
  • »21.06.13 - 00:25
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  • JKD
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    JKD
    Posts: 447 from 2003/4/4
    From: South of heaven
    Sweet.....sounds like I need to check out some more downloads. I certainly remember have hexen, quake(s) and freespace on my old Peg2.
  • »21.06.13 - 03:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1188 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    @henes

    i second that, but it killed the amiga 3D accelerated demoscene on morphos : )
  • »21.06.13 - 13:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cego
    Posts: 572 from 2006/5/28
    From: Germany
    Heretic II and WipeOut are probably the best Warp3D games. And PPC Demos on a G4 or G5 that were meant to demonstrate an 603 or 604 classic amiga? i dont see a point in that. Amiga Demos are meant to run on real amiga hardware.
    Powerbook G4@1,67GHz, 2GB DDR2 Ram, Radeon 9700, 60GB SSD, MorphOS 3.7
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  • »21.06.13 - 15:02
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1188 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    Quote:

    i dont see a point in that. Amiga Demos are meant to run on real amiga hardware.


    Fair enough, you got your revenge for eye candy stuff ;-)
    more seriously, it was the only way to run these demos on hardware that doesn't cost hundreds of euros on ebay when you are lucky to find some...
  • »21.06.13 - 15:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 898 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    Neverball won't run.
    Complains of no screen mode available.
    I get this a lot from games on PB.
    1440x900 just will not do.
    :-(
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  • »22.06.13 - 23:14
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:

    bash64 wrote:
    Neverball won't run.
    Complains of no screen mode available.
    I get this a lot from games on PB.
    1440x900 just will not do.
    :-(


    Have you tried setting sdl prefs to use a windowed mode (just to check they are working in default res, then try to set to own-screen/full-screen from there). I haven't had much time since the 3.2 release to try many games (Powerbook is having a case-transplant at the moment), but those I have tried have all worked afair.

    @Itix
    Is there a reason that scaled-to-fullscreen mode can't be offered to applications at the sdl prefs level (rather than configuration within each game/application where available)?

    [ Edited by boot_wb 23.06.2013 - 12:05 ]
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  • »23.06.13 - 12:04
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Jupp3
    Posts: 1192 from 2003/2/24
    From: Helsinki, Finland
    JKD,
    Quote:

    Waited a long while for MOS3.2 on the PB, to be honest it was a bit of a disappointment not to have the same MorphOS experience on the PB G4 as other MOS platforms...ie. pretty much full support of all Amiga hacks (incl. Warp3D.)

    Those ancient games were pretty much the only eye candy fun stuff that's good to while away some time and make a fun demonstration. I guess GLquake still works?

    Let's see... Warp3D games...

    That would be Wipeout 2097, Heretic II, Shogo, Descent Freespace and... and... Well, that was pretty much it.

    Of course I'd remove Freespace from the list, as you can play the data files on special version of Freespace 2 engine which is WAY less buggy, and better looking.

    If you think that wasn't all, feel free to expand the list. Of course there are some freeware games too, but not many.

    In my opinion, it should be MUCH higher priority to fix TinyGL, as it doesn't work well with some games on on R300 (Neverball comes to mind)

    -EDIT-

    Also, of the 4 mentioned "W3D games", only one (Wipeout) does use Warp3D directly (I think?) - for others, assumably more simple MiniGL => TinyGL wrapper might do.

    [ Edited by Jupp3 23.06.2013 - 23:15 ]
  • »23.06.13 - 17:26
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 441 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    I don't think you can do a MiniGL to TinyGL wrapper, since MiniGL is an OpenGL to Warp3D wrapper itself. We'll see if Wazp3D can be used as a stopgap solution, until an official update arrives (if it does), which implements Warp3D on top of TinyGL.
    Personally I'd love to see TinyGL improved and bugfixed too. With an OpenGL 1.5 compatible TinyGL, one could really harness the graphic capabilities of the R300 cards. Also the inclusion of an open source implementation of S3TC would be a godsend on systems with just 32MB VRAM. Same goes for VBO's, to push more more polygons per frame, and conserve bus bandwidth.
    I see the jimmies have been rustled.
  • »24.06.13 - 08:21
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 441 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    An external library would be necessary to avoid possible patent issues, but TinyGL has to be S3TC aware too. Otherwise you can't upload S3TC textures, even if they are stored in some pre-compressed format, like DirectDraw Surface.
    I see the jimmies have been rustled.
  • »24.06.13 - 15:21
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    CountRaven
    Posts: 557 from 2007/12/11
    From: Greece
    Just installed 3.2 on a Peg1 with a Radeon 7500. Quake III was running good before (previously the machine got a 2.4 release). Now it would not boot. Is it due to the changes on the drviers mentioned on this topic?
  • »07.07.13 - 08:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9624 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Just installed 3.2 on a Peg1 with a Radeon 7500. [...] Now it would not boot.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9252&forum=11

    That thread only mentions Radeon 7000, but this issue also applies to Radeons 7200 and 7500, i.e. everything based on R100 (yes, RV200 is not based on R200 but on R100).

    > Is it due to the changes on the drviers mentioned on this topic?

    This topic has no mention of changes to existing drivers, just that the new R300 drivers lack certain backwards compatibility still provided with R100/R200 drivers.
  • »07.07.13 - 11:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1122 from 2003/4/13
    Did Wazp3D for MorphOS ever get any updates since this thread?
  • »28.07.14 - 17:39
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 441 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    Nope, I could never fix the WarpOS version (warp3dppc.library).
    I see the jimmies have been rustled.
  • »28.07.14 - 17:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1122 from 2003/4/13
    @BSzili

    That sucks, but I appreciate you giving it a shot.

    Will any version of Wazp3D work as a purely software render?
  • »28.07.14 - 18:35
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 441 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    You can use both the software renderer and the TinyGL one, but only with 68k software.
    I see the jimmies have been rustled.
  • »28.07.14 - 19:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9624 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > i would love to play some old PPC Games on MorphOS. Heretic II is still
    > pretty impressive and a really good game.

    Soon possible with Wazp3D. See Youtube video linked there:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10463&forum=9&start=12

    > WipeOut is another good game.

    Already possible with Wazp3D:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9544&forum=11&start=64
  • »30.12.14 - 20:20
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 441 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    That's odd, I have no problems playing Heretic 2 with the public version of Wazp3D.
    I see the jimmies have been rustled.
  • »30.12.14 - 20:28
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @BSzili:

    Why didn't it work? Is it something someone can help you with?

    [ Edited by Yasu 31.12.2014 - 12:23 ]
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  • »31.12.14 - 11:22
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 441 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    As I've said I have no idea, since it worked for me.
    I see the jimmies have been rustled.
  • »01.01.15 - 13:12
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    So it's broken but you can't tell where since it works for you?
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  • »01.01.15 - 14:06
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