Roadshow 68K on MorphOS 3.1 (it works!)
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Dragster
    Posts: 98 from 2005/11/6
    From: Mexico City, M...
    Hi all,

    Now that roadshow 68k full version has been released I tried to get it running on my Pegasos II as I'd like to have a faster tcp/ip stack on MOS... I was able to install it using the original 68k installer and then moved/copied some files so that the stack could find everything it needs.. unfortunately it doesn't work! I tried setting up the stack with the via_rhinepci.device however the stack cannot negociate dhcp dynamic ip address and times out. Then I tried a static ip configuration.. it does apparently work but when you try to reach anything in the local network or the internet it's like it's not actually running... so I was wondering if anyone has been successful to get it running under MOS on any MOS-supported hardware...

    Your comments welcome,

    Cheers...

    Dragster




    [ Edited by Dragster 08.01.2013 - 00:09 ]
  • »03.01.13 - 16:39
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 961 from 2004/9/23
    Installing a new stack using an emulated processor isn´t what I call a good idea.

    Also you will kill a streamlined preferences GUI and run into various other problems.

    The current network stack isn´t perfect and may not be the fastest, but it works well.

    Installing a foreign stack will not fix any "mega slow Mac mini network connection". Thats something different.

    Geit
  • »03.01.13 - 17:29
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Dragster
    Posts: 98 from 2005/11/6
    From: Mexico City, M...
    geit,

    Quote:

    Installing a new stack using an emulated processor isn´t what I call a good idea.

    Also you will kill a streamlined preferences GUI and run into various other problems.

    The current network stack isn´t perfect and may not be the fastest, but it works well.

    Installing a foreign stack will not fix any "mega slow Mac mini network connection". Thats something different.



    Hey, thanks for your reply... well, probably not a good idea... though Miami Deluxe works pretty well and faster than MOS native tcp/ip stack eventhouh it's very well known that it's not fast... it's very clear to notice that OWB is slow when I use the MOS native tcp/ip stack in comparison to Miami (slow loading web pages and dns respnse, sometimes stalls.. you have to click reload to get the pages actually loaded into the browser), not to mention in comparison with roadshowPPC under OS4 on the same hardware...(Peg2).

    I experience the same symptoms under MOS on my Peg 2 *and* on my Powerbook G4...

    I'm looking for suggestions/experience from other users trying to do the same... not reasons why I should not do it..

    Cheers,

    Dragster
  • »03.01.13 - 17:43
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Nadir
    Posts: 155 from 2003/3/17
    Just a small teaser: I spent some time in December to update the MorphOS NetStack (using a newer FreeBSD code base). We hope to ship this with MorphOS 3.2 already since it seems work really well.

    I don't have any benchmarks, but it is fair to say that it significantly faster than the old stack in many cases.

    Nicholai

    [ Edited by Nadir 03.01.2013 - 18:10 ]
  • »03.01.13 - 17:48
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 961 from 2004/9/23
    I am using the Pegasos2 as my main system and never felt that network is slow.

    Maybe it is the kind of usage, maybe the SSD is compensating the speed issues. Who knows.

    Anyway installing some foreign stack may causing incompatibly with other system components, especially after updating the system in the future. Just be warned, that you are on your own.

    Geit

    PS. Since Nadir already spoiled the updated NetStack, It may be wise to not get something you may not need in the future.

    [ Edited by geit 03.01.2013 - 18:51 ]
  • »03.01.13 - 17:48
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Nadir,
    Quote:

    Just a small teaser: I spent some time in December to update the MorphOS NetStack (using a newer FreeBSD code base). We hope to ship this with MorphOS 3.2 already since it seems work really well.

    I don't have any benchmarks, but it is fair to say that it significantly faster than the old stack in many cases.

    Nicholai

    [ Edited by Nadir 03.01.2013 - 18:10 ]


    Hot damn! :-o :-o :-o
  • »03.01.13 - 18:44
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Dragster
    Posts: 98 from 2005/11/6
    From: Mexico City, M...
    Nadir,
    Quote:


    Just a small teaser: I spent some time in December to update the MorphOS NetStack (using a newer FreeBSD code base). We hope to ship this with MorphOS 3.2 already since it seems work really well.

    I don't have any benchmarks, but it is fair to say that it significantly faster than the old stack in many cases.

    Nicholai



    Thank you! That's very good news, it's about time!

    Cheers,

    Dragster
  • »03.01.13 - 18:48
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  • Moderator
    hooligan
    Posts: 1946 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    Since it does not work on MorphOS (yet) I did not accept the newsitem, in case someone is wondering why it isn't posted here as news.
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »03.01.13 - 18:56
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Jambalah
    Posts: 818 from 2008/3/30
    From: Roma, Italy
    Nadir, thanks for let us know this interesting preview :-)

    @Hooligan:
    that's a reasonable point of view. We'll just whisper it around... ;-)
    Pegasos II 1 ghz
    Powermac G4 Quicksilver with Sonnet Encore 1.8 ghz
    Powermac G4 MDD single 1.25 ghz, silenced for ears health...
    Powermac G5 dual 2.7 ghz I'll be back...
    Powermac G5 dual 2.0 ghz
    Powerbook G4 1.67 ghz 17
  • »03.01.13 - 19:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11444 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Since it does not work on MorphOS (yet) I did not accept the newsitem,
    >> in case someone is wondering why it isn't posted here as news.

    > We'll just whisper it around... ;-)

    With news items on all major Amiga sites there's no need to whisper I guess ;-)
  • »03.01.13 - 19:58
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:

    Just a small teaser: I spent some time in December to update the MorphOS NetStack (using a newer FreeBSD code base). We hope to ship this with MorphOS 3.2 already since it seems work really well.

    I don't have any benchmarks, but it is fair to say that it significantly faster than the old stack in many cases.


    Good news, 3.2 is looking to be a big release.

    Although personally I find connection speeds per se are fine (html5 speedtest results) I do find I have problems with some sites (and within my LAN).
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

    UI: Powerbook 5,6 (1.67GHz, 128MB VRam): OS3.1, OSX 10.5.8
    HTPC: Mac Mini G4 (1,5GHz, 64MB VRam): OS3.1 (ZVNC)
    Audiophile: Efika 5200b (SB Audigy): OS3.1 (VNC + Virtual Monitor)

    Windows free since 2011!
  • »04.01.13 - 01:50
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    @Dragster

    I'd be interested to know your results. I did give it a quick try on my Powerbook, but couldn't get it working.
    From what I thought I understood of the readme, the PPPOE driver supplied is just a wrapper - whether that's compatible with our sungem drivers or not I remain unsure.

    (PS - I disabled netstack by renaming mossys:net/netstack and rebooting)

    EDIT: Forgot to mention that the install script fails with MorphOS installer, but works with 68K installer.

    [ Edited by boot_wb 04.01.2013 - 17:09 ]
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

    UI: Powerbook 5,6 (1.67GHz, 128MB VRam): OS3.1, OSX 10.5.8
    HTPC: Mac Mini G4 (1,5GHz, 64MB VRam): OS3.1 (ZVNC)
    Audiophile: Efika 5200b (SB Audigy): OS3.1 (VNC + Virtual Monitor)

    Windows free since 2011!
  • »04.01.13 - 01:56
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Dragster
    Posts: 98 from 2005/11/6
    From: Mexico City, M...
    Well, unfortunately I haven't been successful making it work... it just doesn't...I've tried with bot of my pegasos II nics settinig up dhcp config and static ip/routing/dns... nothing.. in DHCP it can't negotiate the IP address... in static ip address config it appears to work but it doesn't really work.. you can't even ping anything, not even the gateway... the documentation states: "Operating systems which are highly compatible with these original Amiga operating system versions, such as MorphOS, are also expected to work with Roadshow."... since MOS is not oficially supported or anything I guess it would not make sense to confirm the author that eventhough it's expected to work in mos, actually it doesn't.


    Cheers,

    Dragster


    EDIT: It's worth to mention that I tested it on my A1200 with a pcmcia wifi card and it worked in dhcp setup with the same adsl modem/router right out of the box...

    [ Edited by Dragster 04.01.2013 - 10:54 ]
  • »04.01.13 - 16:51
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Dragster
    Posts: 98 from 2005/11/6
    From: Mexico City, M...
    A little update on this... I finally was able to get roadshow to work under MorphOS 3.1... it's blazing fast!

    I used an USB ethernet card that gets binded to the usbasixeth.device woth Poseidon...configured it and voila, it worked! So it seems the devices for the Pegasos II ethernet port are not compatible with Roadshow for some reason...so if you want very fast ethernet, get roadshow and a USB network card for your MorphOS machine...

    Cheers,

    Dragster

    [ Edited by Dragster 08.01.2013 - 10:57 ]
  • »08.01.13 - 03:58
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Dragster
    Posts: 98 from 2005/11/6
    From: Mexico City, M...
    OK...figured it out now ... got it working with my Pegasos II ethernet (via_rhine) *and* on my Powerbook!

    Here's the catch:

    The sungem_eth.device on the PB and the via_rhine_pci,device on the Pegasos II cannot be "initialized" by roadshow for some reason... so what I had to do on the powerbook to get it working was this:

    open a cli and type:

    online sungem_eth.device unit 0

    and then double click your roadshow configi/init file in devs:netinterfaces... and voila!

    I did the same thing on the Pegasos II with the via_rhinepci.device...

    So, roadshow *68K DOES* work (and it's very fast) under MorphOS 3.1!! YAY!

    Cheers,

    Dragster

    [ Edited by Dragster 08.01.2013 - 11:32 ]
  • »08.01.13 - 06:06
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    catohagen
    Posts: 297 from 2003/5/20
    fuck finally :) thanx for this....olsen gets my cash today i guess :)
  • »08.01.13 - 06:44
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    catohagen
    Posts: 297 from 2003/5/20
    Maybe someone can submit/allow this as news now, as its :

    *works on MorphOS 3.1
    *works on Pegasos internal ethernet (via_rhine) on Morphos
    *works on Powerbook internal ethernet (sungem) on Morphos
    *most likely works on MacMini internal ethernet (sungem) on Morphos
    *works on USB to ethernet devices on Morphos 3.1
    *reported as 'blazingly fast' :) even as emulated 68k code :-o
    *Sales promotes hard working amiga coders still around

    *Morphos users with low throughput network transfers finally can stream/copy/backup their stuff(pron) with normal speeds around their home network instead of the low performance netstack people have reported with Morphos :-x

    [ Edited by catohagen 08.01.2013 - 08:24 ]
  • »08.01.13 - 07:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11444 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Morphos users with low throughput network transfers finally can stream/copy/backup
    > their stuff(pron) with normal speeds around their home network instead of the low
    > performance netstack people have reported with Morphos

    Wasn't the low NetStack performance reported for WAN, not for LAN? Fab reports a NetStack LAN speed of up to 10 MByte/s. Is Roadshow significantly faster than this?
  • »08.01.13 - 10:21
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    catohagen
    Posts: 297 from 2003/5/20
    I guess that depends much on the network of the individual who does the reporting but most of the reports i've seen from users is general low performance of network speed (and several replying morphos devs reporting top-notch network speed on their machines)

    In my case, on my 2 Macmini's and powerbook, my lan speed is average around 4-5 megabyte per second with morphos netstack.
    OWB downloads jumps to 50kb/s to 3-400 kb/s

    I can play with a cli and my nas mounted with smbfs and try
    'copy nas:ubuntu10_04.iso buffer 1000000 ram:' and get 5-6-7 megabyte/s or
    'copy nas:ubuntu10_04.iso buffer 10000000 ram:' and get 6-7-8-9 megabyte/s

    When copying from the Morphos side to nas, its around 2 megabyte/s

    my internet is 60 megabit up and down(fibre) or around 7 megabyte per second and browsing the web with OWB is usally slow, i did what Fab suggested somewhere to set tcp.sendspace and tcp.recvspace to 60000 for speeding up browsing, but then LAN filetransfers where really crap and halting so i had to revert to 8192 for tcp.sendspace and tcp.recvspace

    I'll get this Roadshow 68K stack running for a few days and test if network speeds on WAN and LAN get any better.
  • »08.01.13 - 11:55
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    catohagen
    Posts: 297 from 2003/5/20
    olsen wrote a reply to the way Dragster got the stack working on morphos

    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=721764&postcount=21

    maybe some morphos dev with network knowledge want to read as it seems
    that network devices written for morphos doesnt behave correctly as Olsen
    points out in detail in the reply on amiga.org
  • »08.01.13 - 12:43
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    @Dragster
    The installer didn't do nasty things to your mossys:devs/networks?
  • »08.01.13 - 13:40
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  • Moderator
    hooligan
    Posts: 1946 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    Installer didnt do anything for me.. all I see is a quick flash of the install window before it disappears. I tried the latest demo.
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »08.01.13 - 13:53
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Dragster
    Posts: 98 from 2005/11/6
    From: Mexico City, M...
    redrumloa,
    Quote:


    The installer didn't do nasty things to your mossys:devs/networks?



    Hey Red,

    nope... it doesn't copy anything to MOSSYS as far as I remember... anyway, it's very easy to install manually... so you can have total control over the installation...

    Cheers,

    Dragster
  • »08.01.13 - 14:37
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Dragster
    Posts: 98 from 2005/11/6
    From: Mexico City, M...
    hooligan,
    Quote:


    Installer didnt do anything for me.. all I see is a quick flash of the install window before it disappears. I tried the latest demo.



    Use the 68k installer... it works with that.
  • »08.01.13 - 14:37
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 504 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    catohagen,
    Quote:

    maybe some morphos dev with network knowledge want to read as it seems
    that network devices written for morphos doesnt behave correctly as Olsen
    points out in detail in the reply on amiga.org

    Here's my email to Olaf Barthel:
    Quote:


    Hello,

    "I would hope that, unless there are specific reasons why
    sungem_eth.device and via_rhinepci.device do not open in "online" mode,
    these drivers will be updated to conform to the standard practice."

    There is no clear specification whether driver should be online by default
    or not. As such I will not change this behaviour. The correct solution is
    for the TCP/IP stack (or whatever software using the SANA2 driver) to
    explicitly S2_ONLINE the driver after S2_CONFIGURE has been done. Doing so
    has no ill effects as if the device is online already it will just ignore
    the command.

    The reason applications using SANA2 should go online explicitly can be
    tracked to ppp.device which does not go online automatically. In fact, for
    example with AmiTCP/IP you were supposed to add manual bin/online call to
    cover this. Example: http://www.amitrix.com/faqs.html

    Later AmiTCP/IP authors decided to move away from startnet script as such,
    and rather automate and consolidate this functionality to avoid the
    cumbersome startnet script generation that was quite inflexible and hard
    to maintain in an automated way (see AmiTCP installer script for some
    horror hacking).

    "netconfig" command was added. It could do for example BOOTP
    autoconfiguration. This command also covers the online-problem by always
    taking the device online, unless if explicitly told not to do so by a
    command line switch:
    Code:

    NOONLINE/S - Do not put the Sana2 device online.
    Normally netconfig puts the Sana2
    device configured for interface-name
    online. This option causes the online
    command not to be sent.

    Miami/MiamiDX also puts the SANA2 device online automatically.

    As such I'd say it wouldn't be totally uncalled for for the TCP/IP stack
    to automagically S2_ONLINE the driver, nor should it be considered a
    problem in a device driver if it does not go online by default.


    Best Regards,

  • »08.01.13 - 18:53
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