what exactly is WarpUP?
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    poundsmack
    Posts: 1346 from 2003/6/8
    From: USA California
    what exactly is WarpUP?
    "Poundsmack, official morphzone thread creator" -LorD
    "Wanna be lord of the avatars." -JKD
  • »07.10.03 - 16:41
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  • Moderator
    Doraemon
    Posts: 130 from 2003/7/1
    From: Calella Republ...
    Its one of the 3 ppc kernels for amigaOS 3.x.
  • »07.10.03 - 18:57
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  • elf
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    elf
    Posts: 32 from 2003/5/24
    warpup, powerup... what was the third one name?
  • »07.10.03 - 19:15
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 90 from 2003/4/13
    Haage & Partner was the Third name:-)
    regs
    hgm
  • »07.10.03 - 19:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Its one of the 3 ppc kernels for amigaOS 3.x.

    I just know of 2. Elf named them.
  • »08.10.03 - 00:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Haage & Partner was the Third name

    'Haage & Partner' is no PPC kernel but the developers of WarpUP.
  • »08.10.03 - 00:17
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 979 from 2003/6/28
    - WarpUP

    - PowerUP

    - WarpOS



    What are those three things according to googlism. :P
  • »08.10.03 - 00:46
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    poundsmack
    Posts: 1346 from 2003/6/8
    From: USA California
    semi confusing but good enough, thank you
    "Poundsmack, official morphzone thread creator" -LorD
    "Wanna be lord of the avatars." -JKD
  • »08.10.03 - 01:00
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  • HAK
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 221 from 2003/2/24
    From: Austria, Vienna
    @ timofonic,


    Hm, I might be wrong, but in my opinion

    WarpUP == WarpOS



    Bye HAK
  • »08.10.03 - 11:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > WarpUP == WarpOS

    Yes, you are right.
  • »08.10.03 - 15:54
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    serge
    Posts: 725 from 2003/2/20
    I never know why H&P give 2 names for teyr kernel. It is a little stupid, because it's confusing.
    So yes WarpUP = WarpOS
  • »08.10.03 - 18:02
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    porneL
    Posts: 49 from 2003/7/16
    WarpUP/WarpOS/powerpc.library is PowerPC kernel/subsystem for AmigaOS, made by Haage&Partner.

    It has basically the same function as original PowerUP/ppc.library from Phase5: running Amiga programs on PowerPC CPU.

    There is no third kernel for AmigaOS3. But there is more PPC kernels for classic Amiga - MorphOS's Quark and OS4's ExecSG.

    WarpOS is able to emulate PowerUP. MorphOS is able to emulate them both.
    this text is here to confuse you
  • »08.10.03 - 19:23
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    porneL
    Posts: 49 from 2003/7/16
    (ups, posted twice)
    this text is here to confuse you
  • »08.10.03 - 19:24
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    poundsmack
    Posts: 1346 from 2003/6/8
    From: USA California
    well that all makes sence excelent thank you all very much
    "Poundsmack, official morphzone thread creator" -LorD
    "Wanna be lord of the avatars." -JKD
  • »08.10.03 - 20:01
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > what exactly is WarpUP?

    There's an interesting attempt of an answer by the new Phase 5:

    "WarpUP or the later on so called WarpOS, which [...] is not an Operating System but was renamed [...] to mislead others in its understanding, is an illegal, non allowed, non permitted and never agreed, reverse engineered PPC kernel hack of the official PowerUP Kernel System. This illegal hack provoked back in time a lot of completely unnecessary problems and a substantial financial loss for old phase 5. This WarpOS hack was made without detailed and specific hardware knowledge of the manufacturers hardware and owner of all rights in hardware and software phase 5. This is the reason why not everything works with the WarpOS hack. We never allowed, nor had any agreement, nor any NDA given to the pirate programmer of WarpOS to reverse engineer our PowerUP system for that we invested millions in development. WarpOS is the biggest theft in Amiga history and came along with a lot of trouble [...]. [...] If you want to use WarpOS with their respective illegal programs based on that hack, please ask the hackers of it which PPC hardware they recommend you to use in your genuine and original Commodore Amiga environment."
    https://www.facebook.com/phase5digital/posts/2164870016886839?comment_id=2166170870090087&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D

    "How can a counterfeit system like WarpOS, that is a clear software piracy and theft of the PowerUP Kernel System, have a better performance ? [...] 1. It is impossible because WarpOS programmer are hacking in the dark without documentation, without schematics, without firmware setup, without detailed information about the specific logical function of all phase 5 ppc boards and without any understanding in it's 8 layers hardware pcb design to obtain accurate, detailed and full functonality of the original PowerUP System, that is part of the phase 5 68k/PPC Amiga solution. WarpOS hacker do know NOTHING about the 5 different Complex Programmable Logic Devices (CPLD) on a Cyberstorm PPC needed to understand how this complex PPC solution works in detail at last. 2. It is impossible too, by the mere fact of simple physics as you can not accelerate or have a "better perfomance" in the kernels context switch if the hardware dont let you do this. Software can not do miracles if hardware is UNABLE to do so. [...] These are 2 hard facts that uncover the fake and false promises of WarpOS as a big lie to every Amiga user interested in a PPC solution for its original and genuine Commodore Amiga System. It is very clear, this is nonsense that these hackers wanted to believe you to step by their side and undermine the huge efforts and investments phase 5 had in developing this PPC system. As a result of this severe poblem, that old phase 5 did not resolve by suing the authors and inititators in court to get things straight once and for all, possible customers became more and more unsecure if it is the right moment to purchase a ppc board, while the battle of the legit PowerUP System and the WarpUP/WarpOS hack had taken place in public. Thus causing to drop orders and a direct financial loss together with the financial loss of all those Amiga Community flamewars against phase 5 from all sides for being too powerful and a real potential threat for a lot of involved parties in the Amiga market. The final result was the horrific demise of old phase 5, 2 young company owners losing everything and all assets for being personally liable in their endevour and especially all fellow personell who made all this happen over the years, losing their employment and the possibility to feed their families, left out in the rain on the street, jobless."
    https://www.facebook.com/phase5digital/posts/2164870016886839?comment_id=2171056032934904&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D
  • »23.06.18 - 22:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2530 from 2003/2/24
    @Andreas

    Wow, almost 15 years!

    :-o
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »23.06.18 - 22:44
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Minuous
    Posts: 130 from 2010/2/12
    Wow, some really vitriolic and unprofessional statements on that phase5 page. He seems to be claiming that all 3rd-party drivers are illegal without giving any supporting arguments for such a view. It's a long established fact that drivers can be developed by third parties, eg. AmigaOS has Commodore-written drivers for various non-Commodore printers.

    If phase5's software was as buggy as their hardware is (eg. see http://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=562 ) then no wonder H&P found it necessary to write a replacement driver.

    [ Edited by Minuous 24.06.2018 - 15:28 ]
  • »24.06.18 - 04:11
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1816 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Minuous wrote:

    If phase5's software was as buggy as their hardware is (eg. see http://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=562 ) then no wonder H&P found it necessary to write a replacement driver.


    Ermmmm, Phase5 made working but overcomplicated HW with SW that worked within the limitation of that concept.
    (IMO a pure PPC with a super-minimal MorphOS-0.1 like emulation layer would have been the smarter idea even back than).

    Phake5 is a former intern without any technological knowledge and some serious issues.

    Don't confuse these 2.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »24.06.18 - 06:37
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1098 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Minuous wrote:
    If phase5's software was as buggy as their hardware is (eg. see http://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=562 ) then no wonder H&P found it necessary to write a replacement driver.

    Please be aware that this "new P5" has zero relation to the software engineers whose work was bundled with the "old P5" hardware and who later created MorphOS. There is no need to drag their work into this and question its quality.

    If you are genuinely interested, the Wikipedia page on WarpOS provides a reasonably good summary:
    Quote:

    WarpUP, which they claimed would work around the context switching problem, a claim which would be bitterly challenged by Phase5. Phase5 claimed correctly that this hardware problem could not be circumvented by simply optimising the kernel

    Quote:

    WarpOS (...) proved very little use in modernising the OS, being written wholly in non-annotated machine code assembler.

    Quote:

    The choice of WarpOS over its rival proved to be a Pyrrhic victory, as the standards it had developed around - namely EHF and PowerOpen - were to be wholly abandoned in later development of AmigaOS and its clones.
  • »24.06.18 - 06:37
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1098 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > what exactly is WarpUP?

    There's an interesting attempt of an answer by the new Phase 5:

    Please do not repost the diatribes of someone who is likely mentally ill. Surely, there are better ways to amuse oneself.
  • »24.06.18 - 06:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Phake5 is a former intern

    AFAIK, he was a regular employee working in customer support.
  • »24.06.18 - 11:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Please do not repost the diatribes of someone who is likely mentally ill.
    > Surely, there are better ways to amuse oneself.

    I think, for the unlikely case he releases any of his announced PPC products, it can be helpful for potential customers to know beforehand what kind of reply to expect from him when reporting a bug (which may or may not be a hardware bug) that occurs while running WarpUP/WarpOS.
  • »24.06.18 - 11:57
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 421 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    "what exactly is WarpUP?"

    Hague and Partner's attempt to sell StormC.
  • »24.06.18 - 17:00
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 419 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    "what exactly is WarpUP?"

    Hague and Partner's attempt to sell StormC.


    There were quite a lot WOS titles and utils, and that slight speed increase / less context switching has given it edge, no matter how much Phase 5 complained.

    I believed WOS was part of OS 3.9 (Hage again), so it kind of win, in the end.

    Before it all died. Or turned to MorphOS vs AmigaOS 4.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »07.07.18 - 18:30
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 387 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    Quote:

    vox wrote:

    There were quite a lot WOS titles and utils, and that slight speed increase / less context switching has given it edge, no matter how much Phase 5 complained.

    But WarpOS/WarpUP was a ugly mess, and frankly not faster than PowerUP when the programmer knew what they were doing. Context switch management was always manual tuning which had to be done to get best performance out of the dual CPU setup. No software could really fix that, programmer had to do the work. The best performing titles used tricks such as combining all the 68k calls into a single function executed once per frame, or even having non-cacheable memory areas to transmit data between CPUs so that cache flushes would not be required at all... Neither PowerUP or WarpOS/WarpUP really could do this automatically. There is no performance difference between the PowerUP and WarpOS/WarpUP, since the limitations are set by the hardware itself, not software.

    What WarpOS/WarpUP had was a relentless dirt campaign against Phase5/PowerUP. It apparently worked quite well, by just seeing the number of people who still consider the false information a fact.

    WarpOS/WarpUP had number of disadvantages: It had a non-standard binary formats, compilers and and tool, making it a technological dead-end. As it turns out, all work toward WarpOS/WarpUP was abandoned in the end.

    On the other hand PowerUP lead to MorphOS, and PowerUP apps worked out of the box from the very first MorphOS release. This, in my opinion was the best vindication of the correct and sound design choices made with PowerUP.

    There was clearly a division between the PowerUP and WarpOS/WarpUP "camps" back in the day. Interestingly these divisions were carried forward in the MorphOS and OS4 "camps" almost as-is.

    I'll end this post with a classic quote that some might remember:

    Quote:

    ELF is a monster !!!


    :-)
  • »07.07.18 - 21:37
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