The Future about MorphOS ?
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Aramon
    Posts: 35 from 2011/4/21
    From: Germany - Hamburg
    What hardware will be for MorphOS in the future? - I think the PPC-Mac Hardware is to old. – A new PPC Computer or switch to ARM processors?

    I think, MorphOS needs more User. Are there already plans how generate new user for this platform?

    I think, a public timetable is very usefull.

    And I think, AmigaOS, MorphOS and Aros must work together. What do you think?
    Mythana das kostenlose Browser-Rollenspiel: http://www.mythana.de
  • »13.07.11 - 09:01
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 730 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    PPCs Mac work perfectly.

    If MorphOS was going to switch to another architecture it would be x86 because it's cheap, fast, easy to find, has a wide variety of options (from low power to high performance) and MorphOS developers already own x86 machines. In contrast that ARM thingies are vapourware and show quite poor performance in practice.

    Buy a Mac Mini or a Powermac. These are cheap and you won't regret it.

    Why should they show you a timetable?

    Forget the hippy ideas of MOS&OS4&AROS teams working together.
  • »13.07.11 - 11:09
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2667 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    What hardware will be for MorphOS in the future?


    It won't be any custom hardware produced in tiny batches, that's for sure.

    As for timetables, we won't make any. What would be the point if we don't know in advance how much time getting somewhere will take? We've had MorphOS working on laptops around 2005 and yet it still isn't ready for a public release - what would be the point of announcing a release date we don't know we'd be able to keep?

    Quote:

    ... must work together


    We do try to cooperate with AROS on fields of common interest.
  • »13.07.11 - 12:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > that ARM thingies are vapourware and show quite poor performance in practice.

    Vaporware showing *any* performance in *practice* is quite astounding ;-)
  • »13.07.11 - 14:58
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2069 from 2003/2/24
    You should really remember what people (you) are doing with computers these days....

    Aslong as you don't plan to play any current game of run scientific SW even the smallest netbook will be plenty fast.

    A MacMini1.5, PowerBook1.67 or even a PowerMac at 1.8 or more GHz is atleast as fast as such a netbook and we don't even have gone into the lands of the G5.

    I'm quite certain that my iMac will carry me to several more years of MorphOS-use without problerm (assuming it ever gets officiall supported and doesn't break offcourse).

    ARM might be nice for the ultra-portable niche (as in Genesi's smartbook) but if someone would get into doing an ADB-driver we might get that area to in the form of the 12" iBook.

    Lets face it lack of fast-enough-HW has never been a main problem for MorphOS, not even in the times of the Peg1.....
  • »13.07.11 - 19:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > if someone would get into doing an ADB-driver we might get
    > that area to in the form of the 12" iBook.

    No need for an ADB driver to get there:

    http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ibook/stats/ibook_g4_1.33_12.html
    http://support.apple.com/kb/SP43

    You may refer to:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7264&start=97
  • »13.07.11 - 19:43
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    > Are there already plans how generate new user for this platform?

    Speaking only for myself, yes there are plans. But typically it all comes undone after the first date.
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »13.07.11 - 22:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2028 from 2003/6/4
    Aramon,
    Quote:

    I think, MorphOS needs more User. Are there already plans how generate new user for this platform?

    Spread the word - it is the best what can be done. And contribute to the software pool.
    The hardware is rather less of a problem IMHO.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »14.07.11 - 00:28
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    manga
    Posts: 41 from 2009/5/6
    dunno if spread the word and catch the last interested coders is really good. let them look at the IDE and send them automaticly to hell again. no way back. before there is no half comfortable IDE with at least some modern features like DEBUGGING or online library, NOTHING will change i fear.
    Powermac MDD 1,25GHz Radeon 9000 Pro 128MB, 1,5gb, Terratec Aureon Space, USB2.0 NEC, MorphOS 2.6 regged, Powermac MDD Dual1.42, Radeon X800XT PE 256MB waiting for r300 support, Mac Mini 1.5GHz MorphOS 2.6 Regged, Efika Radeon 9250 128MB Morphos 2.6
  • »14.07.11 - 09:06
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2667 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Guess why we started releasing SDKs again? We're also working on a new editor targeted at programmers - which has already been demoed several times. (in case you missed it: http://dreamolers.binaryriot.org/priv/autocomplete.png )
  • »15.07.11 - 08:41
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    analogkid
    Posts: 623 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    @Zylesea:

    I think you mentioned a common problem in MorphOS land. People are forgetting the software side over the never-ending "when-powerbook-and-when-g5-support" questions...
  • »15.07.11 - 10:48
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  • ZB
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    ZB
    Posts: 115 from 2008/9/29
    We need software for sure... but expanding the platform to new users is more difficult without new hardware.

    And yes, we all know that the MorphOS World is too small to allow this...

    ... we are doomed... :-)


    We can only enjoy what we have now and hope the Dev Team don't get tired too soon...


    [ Edited by ZB 15.07.2011 - 15:44 ]
    ---
    Morphing the Phoenix...
  • »15.07.11 - 14:43
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1891 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Hardware situation is better than ever currently and isn't going to be worse anytime soon, even without new supported platforms. That's why I also don't understand all the whining about new platforms in that scale we're getting it. Why can't people enjoy current situation when we finally actually have support for quite mainstream machines.

    I don't think G5 support would make usebase that much bigger, probably mostly old users upgrading. Powerbook support might bring some lurking Amiga users, but more important would be to support what we currently have. Contribute, promote, find and educate possible new users as they won't magically jump into train when something in platform wise happens (as some people seem to think) etc...
  • »15.07.11 - 15:28
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I don't think G5 support would make usebase that much bigger,
    > probably mostly old users upgrading.

    Old users upgrading means that many of them will probably offer their current MorphOS machine including keyfile for sale (at least that's what I plan on doing with my Mac mini G4 as soon as G5 Mac support is there). And if they do that for a reasonable price some new users might be inclined to scarf up on that. Admittedly, the hardware alone (i.e. overall price minus 111 EUR) would have to be very reasonable priced for this to work out.
  • »15.07.11 - 15:53
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
    From: Antwerp, Belgium
    I guess I would get me a nice G5 Powermac in the case MorphOS would be available for it.

    I also hope that people stop waiting for new PPC or other architecture to start using MorphOS. Buy your cheap powermac and evolve with us now, not then.

    [ Edited by Oepabakkes 15.07.2011 - 22:48 ]
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »15.07.11 - 21:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > new PPC or other architecture to start using MorphOS

    Now that's one funny perspective on how the integration of hardware and software works ;-)
  • »15.07.11 - 22:02
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
    From: Antwerp, Belgium
    Are we going to nitpick again ?
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »16.07.11 - 11:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Are we going to nitpick again ?

    Me nitpicking? Never. I'm just making fun of what you wrote :-P
  • »16.07.11 - 12:47
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    analogkid
    Posts: 623 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    @Andreas_Wolf:

    > I'm just making fun of what you wrote

    Bazinga!!
  • »16.07.11 - 17:48
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    stephen_robinson
    Posts: 745 from 2007/4/22
    If I may interject here ladies.

    I can't see PPC storming back, but with Powerbooks, then G5 processors, there's still quite a while to go, and maybe it's a good time to replace PPC specific code with something more Processor architecture neutral*.

    And Anything in the future is going to have more than processor, aint it, multiprocessor support on a G5? we talking about 5/6 3/4 years before that possible? I dunno



    *note: I'm out of my depth talking about that sort of thing, but I hope it sounded right.

    [ Edited by stephen_robinson 16.07.2011 - 19:03 ]
  • »16.07.11 - 18:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > maybe it's a good time to replace PPC specific code with
    > something more Processor architecture neutral

    AFAIK, MorphOS is mostly written in C anyway.

    > multiprocessor support on a G5?

    Multiprocessing capability in MorphOS would be nice for those dual-G4 PowerMac owners as well, I guess :-)
  • »16.07.11 - 19:34
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  • Just looking around
    impossiblescissors
    Posts: 1 from 2011/7/11
    Aramon,
    Quote:

    And I think, AmigaOS, MorphOS and Aros must work together. What do you think?


    The MorphOS team was very smart to add support for existing Mac G4 systems that are plentiful. (I bought a 10-year-old PowerMac for $30 just so I could try MorphOS.) The pool of potential MorphOS users is pretty large, and the challenge is developing software that compels G4 owners to make the switch. Perhaps Sony or Nintendo could be persuaded to use MorphOS for their future game systems (seemingly the only market where PPC has a bright future.)

    OTOH, the Amiga OS4 effort seems tied to a very small set of custom motherboards that very few people own. It would seem that MorphOS has a much stronger position than AmigaOS 4. Would there be any benefit to joining forces? The only thing for MorphOS to gain is support for the Sam, AmigaOne and X1000 platforms. That might make the tiny world of Amiga happy, but it does little to promote MorphOS as a serious consumer OS.
  • »17.07.11 - 08:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Perhaps Sony or Nintendo could be persuaded to use MorphOS for their
    > future game systems

    You're joking, right? Else it would be delusions of grandeur, which reminds me of McEwen's "we have been approached by Sony on PS3 stuff. They want to have Amiga available on that platform" (page 7).

    > seemingly the only market where PPC has a bright future.

    Power Architecture is not only big with gaming consoles but with everything except desktop and mobile computing, i.e. HPC, server, automotive, industrial, communications/networking, military/aerospace. Not that this would benefit MorphOS in any way, just saying.

    > Would there be any benefit to joining forces? The only thing for MorphOS
    > to gain is support for the Sam, AmigaOne and X1000 platforms.

    I think the prospect of seeing MorphOS ported to those platforms has already been discussed ad nauseam, including the MorphOS Team's obvious stance on this. Besides, I can't see how "joining forces" with Hyperion would be a prerequisite to be able to port MorphOS to anything.
  • »17.07.11 - 11:25
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    stephen_robinson
    Posts: 745 from 2007/4/22
    Andreas_Wolf,
    Quote:

    > if someone would get into doing an ADB-driver we might get
    > that area to in the form of the 12" iBook.

    No need for an ADB driver to get there:

    http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ibook/stats/ibook_g4_1.33_12.html
    http://support.apple.com/kb/SP43

    You may refer to:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7264&start=97



    I've just checked on a Powerbook 1.67 in System profiler it shows Apple Internal Keyboard/Trackpad in USB Devices, but on a 1.33 12" iBook g4 it just shows Apple internal trackpad, no mention of keyboard, hmm, I hope that dosn't mean anything, but..
  • »20.08.11 - 13:11
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11609 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > on a 1.33 12" iBook g4 it just shows Apple internal trackpad, no mention
    > of keyboard, hmm, I hope that dosn't mean anything

    Interesting. I hope jacadcaps will clarify.
  • »20.08.11 - 13:51
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