What chance of getting MorphOS2.x for Classic + PPC
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1766 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    SKOLMAN_MWS wrote:
    Yes, but can run only those apps that refer directly to the AGA without references to graphics.library and monitor (PAL/NTSC) AGA.



    If you want to run legacy apps - use UAE. If that's too slow on PPC for you - help fund a bounty to add JIT to E-UAE.

    Supporting AGA's custom access by games and lame applications with all the hacks they do to control the display won't happen on PowerUP for sure.
  • »20.08.13 - 16:13
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
    From: Antwerp, Belgium
    I hope this comes and that it's going to work with my BlizzardPPC with GREX. I buy it as soon as it is released.

    That said I did some funding of that OS4 bounty for JIT on E-UAE. They will release the sources so I suppose it will reach Morphos somehow .

    [ Edited by Oepabakkes 20.08.2013 - 18:42 ]
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »20.08.13 - 17:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10460 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I buy it as soon as it is released.

    According to the most recent information linked in this thread it's supposed to be free.
  • »20.08.13 - 20:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
    From: Antwerp, Belgium
    free ? Not that I mind but why ?
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »26.08.13 - 20:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2578 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Oepabakkes wrote:
    free ? Not that I mind but why ?


    To put expectations at realistic levels (the same level as the price)? You have no moral right to complain or put up demands (including support) for something that hasn't cost you anything? Too many limitations of the HW for them to sell the OS for money with good conscience?

    ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »26.08.13 - 21:03
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
    From: Antwerp, Belgium
    If it works the same as the old MorphOS did but just the modern 3.2 functions are added ... how bad can it be ?hardware drivers would be more or less the same I suppose ?
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »26.08.13 - 22:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2578 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Oepabakkes wrote:
    If it works the same as the old MorphOS did but just the modern 3.2 functions are added ... how bad can it be ?hardware drivers would be more or less the same I suppose ?


    The old MorphOS was free as well...

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »27.08.13 - 07:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
    From: Antwerp, Belgium
    we have a saying here: "only the sun shines for free".

    from the wiki: "After some bitter disagreements within the MorphOS development team in 2003 and 2004 culminating with accusations by a MorphOS developer that he and others had not been paid"

    So maybe for free for the end-user ... but just because someone else (should have?) paid.
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »28.08.13 - 21:53
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    SKOLMAN_MWS
    Posts: 102 from 2006/10/24
    Quote:

    (...) many parts of MorphOS wouldn't work due to missing hi-color support in that rusty old chipset.


    source code c2p 15 bit for AGA (HAM8)
    http://aminet.net/package/misc/emu/TurboEVD-src

    MuEVD is based on sources TurboEVD
    http://aminet.net/package/misc/emu/MuEVD

    Once checked MacOS it quite nimbly on the 68040 in 15 bit on AGA.

    So so it's possible to run even hi-color desktop Ambient at AGA ;)
    _
  • »29.08.13 - 00:42
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1766 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    SKOLMAN_MWS wrote:
    So so it's possible to run even hi-color desktop Ambient at AGA ;)



    Please, get real.
  • »29.08.13 - 09:08
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
    From: Antwerp, Belgium
    I suppose most PPC classics are towerized anyway with zorroslots or pci slots so why bother with AGA in this case ?
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »29.08.13 - 11:26
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  • »27.11.13 - 05:48
  • Just looking around
    Posts: 3 from 2013/12/10
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  • »10.12.13 - 05:33
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 428 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    amigadave,
    Quote:




    AS you know (bad Dave that still owns me some money) there have been pics of MorphOS 3.x on PPC Classics but we ll see it when its done, no testing, no-no ... or Kronos will come to you.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »05.01.14 - 11:51
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 214 from 2003/7/28
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    Simon wrote:
    I suppose most PPC classics are towerized anyway with zorroslots or pci slots so why bother with AGA in this case ?


    Well as an example you could look at AmigaOS 4.1 - which works on AGA, and see how painful that is. I'm sure MorphOS PowerUP would be better but we are talking degrees of painfulness here.

    Even the old Zorro graphic cards are very slow on AmigaOS 4.1 - you really want a BVision, CVision, Voodoo 3 or Radeon 9250 to really start to get something useful.

    Having said that, I don't see any reason why MorphOS 3.x wouldn't perform well on a properly equipped Classic machine. Certainly it should not be "slower" than 1.4.5 PowerUP I would think.

    On a System with a GREX it should be quite acceptable other than Youtube and some advanced games.
    A4000/060/PPC-200MHz, A4000T/060/PPC-233MHz, CD32, MicroA1, Pegasos 2 G4, AMD Phenom Quad Core 2.5GHz, MacMini 1.5GHz/64MB VRam...mwwmwahhh :)
  • »27.06.14 - 19:38
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1329 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    HammerD wrote:
    Quote:

    Simon wrote:
    I suppose most PPC classics are towerized anyway with zorroslots or pci slots so why bother with AGA in this case ?


    Well as an example you could look at AmigaOS 4.1 - which works on AGA, and see how painful that is. I'm sure MorphOS PowerUP would be better but we are talking degrees of painfulness here.

    Even the old Zorro graphic cards are very slow on AmigaOS 4.1 - you really want a BVision, CVision, Voodoo 3 or Radeon 9250 to really start to get something useful.

    Having said that, I don't see any reason why MorphOS 3.x wouldn't perform well on a properly equipped Classic machine. Certainly it should not be "slower" than 1.4.5 PowerUP I would think.

    On a System with a GREX it should be quite acceptable other than Youtube and some advanced games.


    Nope, not really. The bee's knees for for classic Amiga is a working CSPPC, which only takes 128M. The classic version of MorphOS would have to be stripped down to run on only 128M.

    Don't get me wrong, it would be a cool novelty but probably not worth the developers' time. All the PPC cards out in the wild were flaky when new and are getting old now. If a new working PPC accelerator came out for the classic with more RAM, then it would be party time :-p
  • »27.06.14 - 22:58
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    CountRaven
    Posts: 557 from 2007/12/11
    From: Greece
    I hope that sometime we could have a working new version for classics.
    Or at least be able to register the existing version.
    Morphos is very usable and more faster than 4.x on my Amiga 4000 arnd 1200, yes even in its current 1.4.5 version.
  • »27.06.14 - 23:11
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 214 from 2003/7/28
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    HammerD wrote:
    Quote:

    Simon wrote:
    I suppose most PPC classics are towerized anyway with zorroslots or pci slots so why bother with AGA in this case ?


    Well as an example you could look at AmigaOS 4.1 - which works on AGA, and see how painful that is. I'm sure MorphOS PowerUP would be better but we are talking degrees of painfulness here.

    Even the old Zorro graphic cards are very slow on AmigaOS 4.1 - you really want a BVision, CVision, Voodoo 3 or Radeon 9250 to really start to get something useful.

    Having said that, I don't see any reason why MorphOS 3.x wouldn't perform well on a properly equipped Classic machine. Certainly it should not be "slower" than 1.4.5 PowerUP I would think.

    On a System with a GREX it should be quite acceptable other than Youtube and some advanced games.


    Nope, not really. The bee's knees for for classic Amiga is a working CSPPC, which only takes 128M. The classic version of MorphOS would have to be stripped down to run on only 128M.

    Don't get me wrong, it would be a cool novelty but probably not worth the developers' time. All the PPC cards out in the wild were flaky when new and are getting old now. If a new working PPC accelerator came out for the classic with more RAM, then it would be party time :-p


    I'll respectfully debate your view based on activity I see in the Classic market and with OS4.1 Classic and sales figures I *know* about (for OS4.x Classic). I don't know MorphOS PowerUP "donations" or # of users, though. But PPC cards are changing hands on an almost daily basis in the various used marketplaces around the world, and there is certainly opportunity to gain some users. Will it be a significant amount? No, but it's far from zero.

    But right now it's not a very promising prospect for those Classic PPC users who wish to run MorphOS - an unsupported old version of MorphOS is the only thing available that you can't even register and it's up-front stated that there is zero support. Free yes, and support? Yes, unofficially via IRC from several dedicated MorphOS developers and this Forum (which is great!), but I think users would actually *pay* money for an up-to-date version.

    Maybe you have a different perspective and numbers (since I think you ran a shop and sold Classic stuff, but at least that is what I see.

    It's fine if MorphOS (or even OS4) developers and management choose not to support or cater to these users, I don't really care, but I *personally* would like MorphOS 3.x support on Classic, mainly because the Classics are a hobby for me and I like to push the limits on them.

    Maybe it's just me and I'm more of a retro-vintage/living-in-the-80's guy: My AmigaOne X1000 and MacMini (1.5GHz 64MB Radeon with MorphOS 3.x) sit mostly unused and my A4000's and A1200/PPC get more use. For me it's more fun.

    There are ways to utilize additional memory on the A3/4000(T), and Blizzard PPC can take 256MB of RAM. A4000 has 128MB limit on the FAST slot, true, but there is 16MB additional ram on the motherboard and even more ram can be added via Zorro III or graphics cards. That last two type of memory is certainly slow, but Classic users aren't necessarily needing or wanting the fastest machines out there, but they do want to run the latest software where possible.

    How much memory does MorphOS 3.x take to do a clean boot? If it's more than OS4.1 Classic then something is wrong ;) Certainly if it's >128MB something in definitely wrong :)



    [ Edited by HammerD 27.06.2014 - 19:44 ]
    A4000/060/PPC-200MHz, A4000T/060/PPC-233MHz, CD32, MicroA1, Pegasos 2 G4, AMD Phenom Quad Core 2.5GHz, MacMini 1.5GHz/64MB VRam...mwwmwahhh :)
  • »28.06.14 - 02:56
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1329 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    HammerD wrote:
    There are ways to utilize additional memory on the A3/4000(T), and Blizzard PPC can take 256MB of RAM. A4000 has 128MB limit on the FAST slot, true, but there is 16MB additional ram on the motherboard and even more ram can be added via Zorro III or graphics cards. That last two type of memory is certainly slow, but Classic users aren't necessarily needing or wanting the fastest machines out there, but they do want to run the latest software where possible.



    I know the BlizzardPPC can take 256MB, but it is also significantly slower than the CSPPC in real life performance. Not just the last 2 types of RAM, but Z3 RAM is also dog slow. Zorro 3 bandwith would be about 14MB/s. If you have a Radeon in a Prometheus or Mediator, you'd be getting far worse due to sharing bandwith with the video card. Trying to use that as system ram would be painful for modern computing.

    I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be cool, it would be cool. I just understand the MorphOS team decision to put resources elsewhere.

    [ Edited by redrumloa 27.06.2014 - 19:34 ]
  • »28.06.14 - 03:32
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 214 from 2003/7/28
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    HammerD wrote:
    There are ways to utilize additional memory on the A3/4000(T), and Blizzard PPC can take 256MB of RAM. A4000 has 128MB limit on the FAST slot, true, but there is 16MB additional ram on the motherboard and even more ram can be added via Zorro III or graphics cards. That last two type of memory is certainly slow, but Classic users aren't necessarily needing or wanting the fastest machines out there, but they do want to run the latest software where possible.



    I know the BlizzardPPC can take 256MB, but it is also significantly slower than the CSPPC in real life performance. Not just the last 2 types of RAM, but Z3 RAM is also dog slow. Zorro 3 bandwith would be about 14MB/s. If you have a Radeon in a Prometheus or Mediator, you'd be getting far worse due to sharing bandwith with the video card. Trying to use that as system ram would be painful for modern computing.

    I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be cool, it would be cool. I just understand the MorphOS team decision to put resources elsewhere.


    That's fine that they make that decision, and I have to respect that, but I don't have to want that ;)
    A4000/060/PPC-200MHz, A4000T/060/PPC-233MHz, CD32, MicroA1, Pegasos 2 G4, AMD Phenom Quad Core 2.5GHz, MacMini 1.5GHz/64MB VRam...mwwmwahhh :)
  • »28.06.14 - 03:37
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    SKOLMAN_MWS
    Posts: 102 from 2006/10/24
    MorphOS 0.4 runs on AGA, only missing 68k emulator with JIT and newer system libraries.
    _
  • »28.06.14 - 05:29
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    SKOLMAN_MWS
    Posts: 102 from 2006/10/24
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    These old drivers no good?

    http://aminet.net/package/driver/video/CGX-AGA
    http://eab.abime.net/175372-post24.html


    This is the ECS/AGA speedup driver. Native for (CGX5) MorphOS 0.4 CGX-AGA.elf
    _
  • »28.06.14 - 05:50
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    WB_Coder
    Posts: 66 from 2014/5/1
    People keep making hardware for the Commodore Amiga models, like the proposed FPGA accelerators that are supposed to be finished soon. Who knows, maybe someone will make a new PPC accelerator.

    More likely, someone will find a way to integrate an FPGA with the Amiga custom chipset loaded into it, connected to a standard Freescale PPC reference board, so we can have a new system that has the potential to run MorphOS, if the Dev. Team decides such a board is worthy of their time and effort to complete a port of MorphOS3.6 to this new hardware. The FPGA with the Amiga custom chipset loaded into it is not required, but maybe it would be a better solution than the currently used software translation, or having to run E-UAE, to accomplish full backward compatibility.

    Just saying that there are some interesting things being worked on with FPGA's.
    WB_Coder = Wanna Be Coder
  • »28.06.14 - 08:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10460 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > MorphOS 0.4 [...] only missing 68k emulator with JIT and newer system libraries.

    There's many more things missing in MorphOS 0.4 compared to MorphOS 3.x, like... well, like everything.
  • »28.06.14 - 09:23
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10460 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > How much memory does MorphOS 3.x take to do a clean boot?

    Figures told by users of Efika 5200B (128 MiB RAM) amount to about 80 MB free after clean boot, so memory footprint there is about 50 MB. This was with MorphOS 2.4, but I don't think it to be significantly different with MorphOS 3.x.

    > if it's >128MB something in definitely wrong :)

    The Efika 5200B with 128 MiB RAM is still an officially supported platform with MorphOS 3.x.
  • »28.06.14 - 10:06
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