ARM for the future?
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 116 from 2015/8/23
    obviously, we need unix base for software with out gui, and future version of qt will be easier to port to mos if mos will be unix based.
  • »10.01.17 - 15:37
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 878 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    obviously, we need unix base for software with out gui, and future version of qt will be easier to port to mos if mos will be unix based.




    Why do we need Qt?
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  • »10.01.17 - 15:49
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 116 from 2015/8/23
    Why not?
  • »10.01.17 - 15:55
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 878 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Why not?



    You made the claim, support it.
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  • »10.01.17 - 16:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 354 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > the CPU cores are modded ARM cores (IIRC A73s).

    I've never read or heard from a reliable source that cores which are created on the base of an ISA license (like Qualcomm's Kryo is) are modified ARM Ltd. cores. This doesn't sound plausible to me, even when the ISA licensee is a core licensee at the same time (like Qualcomm is).


    Using an ARM core as a basis for a custom design isn't entirely unusual, but companies don't usually make this public.

    I believe Qualcomm usually do their own from scratch but they are being quite public about this one:
    http://semiaccurate.com/2017/01/03/qualcomm-opens-bit-10nm-snapdragon-835-soc/

    It's also mentioned in a Microprocessor report who are usually a rather more reliable source.
  • »10.01.17 - 19:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9112 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I believe Qualcomm usually do their own from scratch but they are being quite
    > public about this one:
    > http://semiaccurate.com/2017/01/03/qualcomm-opens-bit-10nm-snapdragon-835-soc/
    > It's also mentioned in a Microprocessor report who are usually a rather more
    > reliable source.

    I wasn't aware of this, so thanks for the link.

    According to the Microprocessor Report authors, the original Kryo core as used in the Snapdragon 820 and 821 is a from-scratch design, whereas the new Kryo 280 core as used in the Snapdragon 835 has been derived from the Cortex-A73:

    http://www.linleygroup.com/newsletters/newsletter_detail.php?num=5647

    > Using an ARM core as a basis for a custom design isn't entirely unusual,
    > but companies don't usually make this public.

    From the above link:

    "Qualcomm cut a unique deal allowing it to modify and rebrand ARM CPUs."

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 19.01.2017 - 23:02 ]
  • »10.01.17 - 22:01
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 116 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Why not?



    You made the claim, support it.


    Try to port some software and you get why.
  • »11.01.17 - 03:51
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 878 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Why not?



    You made the claim, support it.


    Try to port some software and you get why.





    Which Qt software would I want to port?
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »11.01.17 - 08:48
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 116 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Why not?



    You made the claim, support it.


    Try to port some software and you get why.





    Which Qt software would I want to port?


    Try to port some software and you get why.
  • »11.01.17 - 23:45
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 878 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Why not?



    You made the claim, support it.


    Try to port some software and you get why.





    Which Qt software would I want to port?


    Try to port some software and you get why.


    No software to port, no point in trying.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

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  • »12.01.17 - 00:19
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 236 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    Quote:

    minator wrote:
    While I'm here, there's a new board made their kickstarter:

    It's a new version of the Firefly:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1771382379/firefly-rk3399-six-core-64-bit-high-performance-pl


    One problem with doing any sort of alternative boards is they tend to have weird embedded ports or older PC stuff.
    This one is way more modern than most: PCIe, SATA, USB 3.0, DDR3 etc.

    You'd almost think they were looking at doing a laptop with it.


    It needs a numeric keypad.
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »12.01.17 - 03:11
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 116 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    No software to port, no point in trying.



    Try to port anything with more than 2000 lines of code, and you get where is problem.
  • »16.01.17 - 03:43
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 878 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    No software to port, no point in trying.



    Try to port anything with more than 2000 lines of code, and you get where is problem.



    You really need to try harder. Take Shaun the bus arch troll or Mipsproc as examples, they perfected the art.
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  • »16.01.17 - 12:34
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 354 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    In what can be called a stealth operation, Cavium acquired Vulcan from Broadcom last year and confusingly renamed it ThunderX 2 CN99xx (ThunderX2T99):


    I couldn't possibly comment...


    However in the land of ARM SBCs I've just seen this:

    http://www.lemaker.org/product-hikeysecond-specification.html

    The SBCs tend to be a bit behind in what chips they use but this has the current top end ARM parts:
    Quad A73 @ 2.4GHz, Mali G71 MP8 and 3GB LPDDR4.
  • »26.04.17 - 20:19
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4064 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >Seems they can't get PCIe to work on this board:

    "If you need the PCIE, we should refund for you or you can choose to select the latest HiKey960. If you choose HiKey 960(the price is 239USD plus shipping fee), we will refund the balance for you."

    Weird, since the HiKey 960 only has a compact PCIe M.2 slot.

    SO, thus far, there don't seem to be any ARM boards with full sized PCIe expansion slots.
    I guess X64 WAS the right choice.


    [ Edited by Jim 29.04.2017 - 13:22 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »29.04.17 - 18:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9112 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Weird, since the HiKey 960 only has a compact PCIe M.2 slot.

    Better that than no PCIe at all, I guess.

    > thus far, there don't seem to be any ARM boards with full sized PCIe expansion slots.

    There're ARMv8 server boards with one or several PCIe x16 slots (from Gigabyte, HP, Avantek, E4 and others, mainly using X-Gene or ThunderX). In the sub-US$800 range there're (beside the LeMaker Cello with botched PCIe x16) at least these boards with PCIe x4:

    - Nvidia Jetson TX1 (Cortex-A57)
    - Nvidia Jetson TX2 (Denver2 + Cortex-A57)
    - Marvell MacchiatoBIN (Cortex-A72)
  • »29.04.17 - 20:30
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 878 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    >Seems they can't get PCIe to work on this board:

    "If you need the PCIE, we should refund for you or you can choose to select the latest HiKey960. If you choose HiKey 960(the price is 239USD plus shipping fee), we will refund the balance for you."

    Weird, since the HiKey 960 only has a compact PCIe M.2 slot.

    SO, thus far, there don't seem to be any ARM boards with full sized PCIe expansion slots.
    I guess X64 WAS the right choice.



    It's a shame as I'd love to have an ATX board with Aarch64 CPU and a few full size PCIe slots as a Linux desktop.

    Kind of on the subject, does anyone know of any MIPS or SPARC boards with full size PCIe slots that don't cost the earth? Or any CPU that isn't x86 tbh.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »29.04.17 - 22:24
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 156 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    @Intuition: Only MIPS-desktop which is halfway decent I've read of is a Loongson 3B based one (klick). But I don't know how the availability in any other part of the world apart from China is. Apart from that our current PPC-hardware, the PCIe-Macs or Amigas are the next best choice for 'alternative'-CPU desktops. Which I think it is quite funny. ;-)
    PMac G5 11,2. PMac G5 7,3. PBook G4 5,8. PBook G4 5,6. [MorphOS 3.9 / Gentoo Linux / Ubuntu MATE 16.10] 2 x A1200. ACA-1233/55, ACA1232/40, Indivision AGA Mk2, 4 GiB CF. [Amiga OS 3.9]
  • »30.04.17 - 10:16
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4064 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @ernsteiswuerfel

    >...the PCIe-Macs...

    I have been asking for those for a LONG time, and while I'm sure they have at least beta tested the idea for themselves, we haven't gotten them... ;-(
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.04.17 - 22:05
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4064 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Jim wrote:

    @Andreas_Wolf

    Only $300 for a 2GHz system with a PCIe x4 slot, hmm...

    Again, I'm glad we are moving to X64.

    If I'm blowing $800 or more, I want something like a four or six core Ryzen cpu.


    @ernsteiswuerfel

    >...the PCIe-Macs...

    I have been asking for those for a LONG time, and while I'm sure they have at least beta tested the idea for themselves, we haven't gotten them... ;-(
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.04.17 - 22:11
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 354 from 2003/3/28
    Desktop machine? slots?

    Last time I bought (well, built) a desktop machine with slots was 17 years ago!

    OTOH this laptop does have PCIe ...for the SDD drive.
  • »30.04.17 - 23:02
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4064 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    minator wrote:
    Desktop machine? slots?

    Last time I bought (well, built) a desktop machine with slots was 17 years ago!

    OTOH this laptop does have PCIe ...for the SDD drive.


    I have one with compact PCIe that I don't use for SSD, but then, I don't limit myself to laptops.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »01.05.17 - 08:11
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