Amiga Inc.
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > He wasn't interested in direct development of AROS and after examining the state
    > of the OS he didn't consider it polisedh or stable enough for inclusion with his PCs.

    I was alluding to the time the Wikipedia quote refers to, i.e. when he still *was* considering AROS and was subsequently pressured to scrap this idea, but by another entity and for entirely different reasons than are claimed in the Wikipedia article. From Commodore USA's August 31st 2010 press release:

    "Commodore USA has now taken a major role in not just supporting the future Amiga market with our many new products, but also in providing a new beginning for the enormous existing Amiga community. Our relationship with them, along with our support for the elegant, robust and lightweight AROS desktop operating system, will ensure that they and future customers will benefit from our new and exciting vision, and enable the legacy Commodore and Amiga culture to flourish. [...] In response to an overwhelming demand from Amiga users worldwide, Commodore USA’s CTO Leo Nigro announced today that their new Amiga branded computers will be fully AROS compatible, and that they will be supporting the AROS open source community in every way possible. Mr. Nigro states 'With the monumental strides that AROS has recently achieved, we realize the importance of accelerating this progress with funding that will enable this project to rapidly move forward and take it’s rightful place at the forefront of desktop operating systems'."
    http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_News.aspx

    The Wikipedia article now claims that it was Amiga Inc. who after publication of this press release prohibited Commodore USA to ship AROS with its new 'Amiga' line of computers, and it claims further that the reason for Amiga Inc. doing this was the open source nature of AROS. Problem is that's not what happened at all, and besides it doesn't make any sense (taking into account that they now go for altered Ubuntu, which is open source as well). The one who put this into the Wikipedia article is either purposely and falsely putting the blame on Amiga Inc. or he really thinks that's what happened and is pulling this out of his arse. It's getting way beyond funny when he cites a posting of yours as source for his claims when this posting doesn't support any of those bizarre claims.
    It's well known that what's potentially prohibiting Commodore USA to ship AROS with its new 'Amiga' line of computers is the "Substantially Similar Software Architecture" clause in the September 2009 settlement agreement between Hyperion and Amiga Inc., and it's certainly Hyperion, *not* Amiga Inc., who would have attempted to enforce this clause should Commodore USA have decided to go for AROS (see in my previous posting the link to Hyperionmp's telling reaction to the above quoted press release on amigaworld.net).
    One could argue that not Commodore USA but Amiga Inc. would have got sued by Hyperion over this as Hyperion's agreement is not with Commodore USA but with Amiga Inc., and that consequently it was not Hyperion but Amiga Inc. who in order to avoid litigation prohibited Commodore USA to ship 'Amiga' computers with AROS, but that still doesn't render the claims regarding the alleged reason any less bogus.

    > the MorphOS developers had apparently rejected an X86 port (for at least
    > the immediately future).

    Yes, and Commodore USA 'Amiga' computers with MorphOS would have caused the same outrage in Hyperion that the Commodore USA's original AROS announcement did. At least I wouldn't know how MorphOS could be less subject to the "Substantially Similar Software Architecture" clause than AROS.

    > it doesn't seem fair that other small shops can sell AROS based systems
    > and not get any negative press but when C=USA wants to bundle an
    > open source OS with their machines they get flack for it.

    I'm not getting what you're trying to say here. The AresOne and the iMica are systems without the 'Amiga' name that come with a native AmigaOS-like OS, whereas the Commodore USA 'Amiga' line will be systems *with* the 'Amiga' name that come *without* a native AmigaOS-like OS. So these are exactly contrastive situations that cannot be easily compared. Furthermore, the open source matter has nothing at all to do with anything here.
  • »29.06.11 - 12:48
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > It seems some Wikipedia authors are attempting to rewrite history: [...]

    Fortunately, someone with a sense of reality has removed the stupid claims. It now reads only:

    "Commodore USA originally claimed the intention of developing AROS to be bundled with their Amiga systems, however this plan was later publicly discarded by CEO Barry Altman."
  • »29.06.11 - 17:08
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    phoenixkonsole
    Posts: 139 from 2010/8/4
    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    No, that definitely doesn't agree with what Barry told me directly in a phone conversation.
    He wasn't interested in direct development of AROS and after examining the state of the OS he didn't consider it polisedh or stable enough for inclusion with his PCs.
    And the MorphOS developers had apparently rejected an X86 port (for at least the immediately future).
    So he turned to a Linux Distro (which he's now getting gaffs for).

    I'm not sure how I feel about C=USA, but it doesn't seem fair that other small shops can sell AROS based systems and not get any negative press but when C=USA wants to bundle an open source OS with their machines they get flack for it.


    Well actually i find the C64x not too bad : )
    The problem is that selling a "Amiga" named PC with an amiga-like OS seems to result in legal problems.

    Now i would like to ask:
    Where the hell is the difference in selling those with Linux + AmigaForever? huh? This mix should be more harmful to Hyperions business..

    Well CUSA made one mistake:
    They said: "Wohoooo you Amigans we will bring AMIGA-PC's with AROS!!!!" at a time where some people put some hard work and money into AROS... CUSA did nothing... so i was pi**ed and said things like "Broadway on CUSA-machines = no go" ... i just hoped they will donate at least a few bucks to the bounties.... nothing .. remember they spoke about 30,000,000$ budget..... result: not even 5$ for a bounty...

    Than they needed a sound-driver which was closed source... Stephen Jones has paid for it and i have paid to get it working with the AresOne later... CUSA said "suck my salty balls" and posted private messages in public forums.

    You see the more i recap the more my blood starts boiling... hmm a minute ago i was positive about the C64x : D , still nice.

    So there is nothing unfair....

    aaaarrrrgghhhh ... ok everything is fine again : ) Did i say that the c64x looks fine?
  • »29.06.11 - 20:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The problem is that selling a "Amiga" named PC with an amiga-like OS
    > seems to result in legal problems. Now i would like to ask: Where the hell
    > is the difference in selling those with Linux + AmigaForever? huh? This
    > mix should be more harmful to Hyperions business..

    I think Hyperion and A-Eon aim to offer the one and only true official AmigaOS solution. Unfortunately, they only have the 'AmigaOne' name for the hardware, not the 'Amiga' name. This means that a relatively cost-effective (compared to the X1000 that is) 'Amiga' computer with an AmigaOS-like native OS like AROS would pose real competition to Hyperion and A-Eon's offering. By contrast, an 'Amiga' computer, albeit cost-effective as well, with an AmigaOS-unlike native OS like Linux running an Amiga emulator running old AmigaOS 3.x (or even AROS/m68k one day) wouldn't be regarded as a true AmigaOS solution by most people who like to use an AmigaOS-like OS (as opposed to just running old Amiga games on the emulator), so this wouldn't pose real competition anyway. And I highly doubt that Commodore USA's solution will be as integrated as Amithlon, which is also based on Linux. In fact, it's arguable whether an Amithlon-like solution on an 'Amiga' computer would be subject to the "Substantially Similar Software Architecture" clause.
  • »29.06.11 - 21:29
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 71 from 2008/8/10
    @thread

    http://www.trademarkia.com/company-amiga-inc-72446-page-1-0

    Lots of abandonment notices filed Monday, September 19, 2011..

    #6
  • »25.09.11 - 17:49
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1040 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    What does it mean basically, that you can buy an Amiga trademark just like that?
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »25.09.11 - 18:45
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 835 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    pampers, What does it mean basically, that you can buy an Amiga trademark just like that?


    It does not really mean all that much. All we know for sure is that Amiga Inc. did not bother to fill out certain paperwork in time.

    You do not have to have an actively used trademark listed in the USPTO database to benefit from legal protection for it. However, if you are trying to sell a brand name, this type of formality may be useful because it usually enhances the perceived professionalism of the seller.
  • »25.09.11 - 20:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > http://www.trademarkia.com/company-amiga-inc-72446-page-1-0
    > Lots of abandonment notices filed Monday, September 19, 2011..

    Now also reflected by Christoph Gutjahr's list of Amiga trademarks:

    http://aminet.net/package/docs/misc/Amiga-Trademarks
  • »25.09.11 - 23:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    >>> From Pluritas LLC's press release:
    >>> "Amiga Inc. [...] is also actively seeking investment capital to
    >>> fund the ongoing development of their enabling technologies"

    >> What "enabling technologies" are they talking about?

    > My guess is AA2.

    Seems there has some enablement been going on with AA2:

    "Amiga can bring Classic applications written for the Amiga platform to life on Blackberry devices that don't have the same user controls on the platform. Amiga Anywhere2's Virtual Classic Controls fill the gaps on Blackberry devices and allow users to control games similar to the way they were controlled on Amiga computers."
    http://www.amiga.com/news/2012-amiga-blackberry.php
  • »28.09.12 - 15:42
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    pixie
    Posts: 147 from 2003/9/5
    From: Am*ga
    Andreas_Wolf,
    Quote:

    Fortunately, someone with a sense of reality has removed the stupid claims. It now reads only:

    Sense or no sense, stupid or not, that was also as I recall them happening, with the difference that it was Hyperion bringing up the clause where Amiga couldn't have a computer running a similar OS to AmigaOS, which in practice would exclude AROS and not UBUNTO for example. This clause exists, and it's in the final agreement between Hyperion and Amiga Inc, so it was expected.
    pixie - writing from a paradise called Portugal
  • »28.09.12 - 22:59
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> It seems some Wikipedia author is attempting to rewrite history:
    >>> "CommodoreUSA originally claimed the intention of developing AROS to be bundled
    >>> with their Amiga systems, however this plan was later publicly discarded by CEO Barry
    >>> Altman, due to litigation issues with Amiga Inc. who as legal licensors of the closed
    >>> source Amiga Workbench interface did not like the idea of AROS (being open source)
    >>> being developed for Commodore USA's x86 range of computers, in particular the
    >>> Amiga range."
    >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_USA#Controversy
    >>> And he even gives a posting of yours as alleged source for this nonsense:
    >>> http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=578528&postcount=183
    >>> As far as I can see, your posting says nothing like what's claimed in the quoted part from
    >>> Wikipedia. It wouldn't even make sense to not be allowed to ship AROS due to its open
    >>> source nature but then be allowed to instead go to another open source OS that is
    >>> Ubuntu. That's really a contradiction in terms.

    >> Fortunately, someone with a sense of reality has removed the stupid claims.
    >> It now reads only:
    >> "Commodore USA originally claimed the intention of developing AROS to be bundled with
    >> their Amiga systems, however this plan was later publicly discarded by CEO Barry Altman."

    > that was also as I recall them happening

    Really? You recall litigation issues between CUSA and Amiga Inc. because Amiga Inc. not liking the idea of AROS being developed for CUSA's "Amiga" computers due to its open source status? If yes, I'm quite sure that you and that confused Wikipedia author are the only people recalling that.

    > with the difference that it was Hyperion bringing up the clause

    Exactly. And with the further difference that it had nothing whatsoever to do with AROS being open source. Hence my Ubuntu example for an open source OS that is allowed to be distributed with CUSA's "Amiga" computers.

    > where Amiga couldn't have a computer running a similar OS to AmigaOS

    ...when that computer is named "Amiga", yes. I'm well aware of that clause. In fact, I was the first one to bring up the exact wording of the clause in this very thread. So no need to lecture me about it, really.

    > which in practice would exclude AROS and not UBUNTO for example.

    Yes, this is exactly what I've been saying. So what is your point? AROS and Ubuntu are both open source, so in contrast to what that Wikipedia author was claiming, being open source can't be the reason why AROS isn't allowed.

    > This clause exists, and it's in the final agreement between Hyperion and Amiga Inc

    I know that. My whole argumentation is based on that fact. It's that Wikipedia author who was pretending the clause wouldn't exist, not me. So your point being?

    > so it was expected.

    What that Wikipedia author was claiming was *not* expected, and it's also not what happened.
  • »28.09.12 - 23:40
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    pixie
    Posts: 147 from 2003/9/5
    From: Am*ga
    Andreas_Wolf,

    Quote:

    "CommodoreUSA originally claimed the intention of developing AROS to be bundled with their Amiga systems, however this plan was later publicly discarded by CEO Barry Altman, due to litigation issues with Amiga Inc.

    is more valid the the more sensible version Quote:

    "Commodore USA originally claimed the intention of developing AROS to be bundled with their Amiga systems, however this plan was later publicly discarded by CEO Barry Altman."

    I read a part that I saw and remembered up till the first quote, and then subconsciously I assumed it to be as I remembered. My bad. If you see my justification even goes against it...
    pixie - writing from a paradise called Portugal
  • »29.09.12 - 11:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > "CommodoreUSA originally claimed the intention of developing AROS to
    > be bundled with their Amiga systems, however this plan was later publicly
    > discarded by CEO Barry Altman, due to litigation issues with Amiga Inc."
    >
    > is more valid the the more sensible version
    >
    > "Commodore USA originally claimed the intention of developing AROS to
    > be bundled with their Amiga systems, however this plan was later publicly
    > discarded by CEO Barry Altman."

    As I said, I don't recall any "litigation issues" between CUSA and Amiga Inc., and I'm quite sure there weren't any regarding AROS. So I still think the latter version is the more valid one and the former version is just plain wrong.

    > I read a part that I saw and remembered up till the first quote

    I ask you once again: You remember "litigation issues" between CUSA and Amiga Inc. regarding AROS?
  • »30.09.12 - 15:37
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    pixie
    Posts: 147 from 2003/9/5
    From: Am*ga
    Quote:

    Sense or no sense, stupid or not, that was also as I recall them happening, with the difference that it was Hyperion bringing up the clause where Amiga couldn't have a computer running a similar OS to AmigaOS, which in practice would exclude AROS and not UBUNTO for example. This clause exists, and it's in the final agreement between Hyperion and Amiga Inc, so it was expected.


    When it's said 'due with litigation issues with Amiga Inc.' It doesn't necessarily means CUSA has them with Amiga Inc. it may mean that Amiga Inc. has their own litigation issues, see Hyperion vs Amiga Inc. case. Anyhow, that's my interpretation of it.

    In this case MORPHOS or AROS would be out of reach for CUSA due to Amiga Inc. litigation issues (with Hyperion).
    pixie - writing from a paradise called Portugal
  • »30.09.12 - 18:34
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    runequester
    Posts: 106 from 2010/1/11
    I think AROS was out of reach for CUSA since it'd require them to do any actual work...
    Amiga 1200 and G4 MDD MOS as my main computers.
  • »30.09.12 - 18:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > with the difference that it was Hyperion bringing up the clause

    Here you said it yourself: There's actually a *difference* between what the Wikipedia author claimed and what happened for real.

    > When it's said 'due with litigation issues with Amiga Inc.' It doesn't necessarily
    > means CUSA has them with Amiga Inc.

    I think it does, because of how the sentence continues:

    " [...] who as legal licensors of the closed source Amiga Workbench interface did not like the idea of AROS (being open source) being developed for Commodore USA's x86 range of computers, in particular the Amiga range."

    To me it's clear that the alleged "litigation issues with Amiga Inc." do refer to what's written in that second part of the sentence, i.e. that CUSA wanted to use AROS but weren't allowed to because Amiga Inc. denied it due to its open source status.
    If that's still not convincing for you, feel free to read some more of those crap statements from said Wikipedia author:

    "I was a little saddened by Amiga Inc's stance against CUSA in not allowing AROS to be used and ported over to a modern PC machine bearing the words 'Amiga' [...]. Perhaps if Amiga Inc. had taken a stake in the AROS project, it could have saved both companies. Amiga Inc. should learn to be more flexible I feel business-wise and not be so stubborn..."
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=670279

    "Amiga Inc. had other ideas about how AmigaOS should be used (only on Motorola CPUs and issued legal warnings to CUSA if they went Aros way) and as a result there was bad vibes received on both sides and why CUSA is now looking to Linux instead as a platform..."
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=670612

    "CUSA's [...] current agreement with Amiga Inc. says they cannot have an 'Amiga OS' like system on their machines as their base OS if it has not been endorsed by Amiga Inc. (which says it all really)."
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=686920

    > it may mean that Amiga Inc. has their own litigation issues, see
    > Hyperion vs Amiga Inc. case. Anyhow, that's my interpretation of it.

    That's not what the author meant. See above.
  • »30.09.12 - 20:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I think AROS was out of reach for CUSA since it'd require them to do any actual work...

    ...or alternatively to spend money to get their hardware supported.
  • »30.09.12 - 21:07
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    pixie
    Posts: 147 from 2003/9/5
    From: Am*ga
    Andreas_Wolf,
    Quote:

    That's not what the author meant. See above.

    He seem to think that Amiga Inc. still has a somewhat active role in all this shenanigans...

    Your interpretation seem to be the correct one, I just saw for the words written, not its full context.

    [ Edited by pixie 30.09.2012 - 23:14 ]
    pixie - writing from a paradise called Portugal
  • »01.10.12 - 00:11
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    runequester
    Posts: 106 from 2010/1/11
    Andreas_Wolf,
    Quote:



    There's that as well, but most people running a business will do some research before jumping in with grandiose claims.

    And in the end, what they were after was something with zero cost and zero effort. I doubt they have contributed (let alone created) a single line of code back to the Mint/Linux ecosphere after they selected that as their choice.

    I guess it all doesn't matter much now though.
    Amiga 1200 and G4 MDD MOS as my main computers.
  • »01.10.12 - 17:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > most people running a business will do some research before jumping in with
    > grandiose claims.

    Apropos, look at those grandiose claims:
    http://www.os4online.com/2013/06/os4-line-of-products-becomes-amiga.html

    As it seems, "Amiga" was changed back to "OS4" only one day later:
    http://www.os4online.com/2013/06/our-new-logos.html

    Related amigaworld.net thread:
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37810&forum=17


    Edit:
    http://www.os4online.com/2013/06/a-message-to-amiga-community.html
    http://www.os4online.com/2013/06/new-options-to-hardware.html
    http://www.os4online.com/2013/06/amiga-openlinux-amiga-enterprise-linux.html

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 19.07.2013 - 17:49 ]
  • »23.06.13 - 18:05
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > Seems there has some enablement been going on with AA2:
    > "Amiga can bring Classic applications written for the Amiga platform to life on
    > Blackberry devices that don't have the same user controls on the platform. Amiga
    > Anywhere2's Virtual Classic Controls fill the gaps on Blackberry devices and allow
    > users to control games similar to the way they were controlled on Amiga computers."
    > http://www.amiga.com/news/2012-amiga-blackberry.php

    "Consultant
    Amiga
    Privately Held; 51-200 employees; Computer-Software industry
    December 2012 – Present (7 months)
    Working with Amiga Inc. to bring classic games written for the original Amiga hardware to life on Blackberry devices via the new Amiga Anywhere platform.
    "
    http://www.linkedin.com/in/darrendebono
  • »26.06.13 - 00:48
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 3859 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >51-200 employees

    really?
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.06.13 - 01:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8911 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> 51-200 employees

    > really?

    Most likely not :-)
  • »26.06.13 - 01:58
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 3859 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Andreas_Wolf,
    Quote:

    Most likely not :-)


    No, it does seem unlikely, but its always good fun seeing a web of lies created with Bill somewhere in the middle.
    I imagine RIM executives are cringing at this stuff.
    They have gotten enough bad press recently.

    [ Edited by Jim 26.06.2013 - 02:38 ]
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.06.13 - 02:38
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 71 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Andreas_Wolf,
    Quote:

    Most likely not :-)


    No, it does seem unlikely, but its always good fun seeing a web of lies created with Bill somewhere in the middle.
    I imagine RIM executives are cringing at this stuff.
    They have gotten enough bad press recently.



    Hi Jim!

    Success story confirmed:

    10 is not a hit; stock nosedives 26%

    #6
  • »28.06.13 - 16:38
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