>> I don't know where boot_wb's "Max 1GB" for the PowerMac3,1 comes from, though.

> Considering I've referenced everything so thoroughly I'm a little disappointed ;-)
> It comes from the Apple manual reference [3] purporting to relate to both PCI
> and AGP models.

I had skimmed through the document ("[3] - Apple Documentation "Setting up your Power Mac G4 (PCI/AGP)", accessed 25/8/10 from here") that you present as source right before I wrote that sentence, but couldn't find that information unfortunately. Maybe I overlooked the relevant page. Would you please point to the exact page?

> this manual never refers to AGP expansions

But it does. There are no less than 8 pages in this document which refer to AGP.

Quote:

I have to admit that it was purely speculative from my side that anything below 500MHz would use MPC7400/MPC7410 and anything equal or above would be MPC7450 (or equally) based.
My statement is solely down to the fact that MorphOS for PowerMac didn't work with MPC7400/MPC7410 at that time.
We are trying to resolve this issue before release of 2.6, though, last but not least to increase the potentially available hardware base.
Regarding optional/additional CPU card expansion it's difficult to say what is going to work and what's not. Noone in his sane mind should expect that we are able to test each and every model/config around beforehand.
We depend on user feedback once MorphOS 2.6 is released. At least it can be tested at no cost ....

> it was purely speculative from my side that anything
> below 500MHz would use MPC7400/MPC7410 and anything
> equal or above would be MPC7450 (or equally) based.
> My statement is solely down to the fact that MorphOS for
> PowerMac didn't work with MPC7400/MPC7410 at that time.

Okay, that way it makes sense. Thanks for clarification.

Will the Sonnet or Newer Tech Cpu upgrades work under MOS 2.6?

I called Sonnet and asked about their Crescendo 7200 upgrade and they did call me back, but it appears at least that one, the PCI version, is not available anymore, even though it says it is on the website, when you go to actually "checkout" your cart, it gives an error message saying it's not available.

> I called Sonnet and asked about their Crescendo 7200 upgrade

The Crescendo 7200 is completely irrelevant in a MorphOS context. It's an upgrade card for pre-G3 PowerMacs, i.e. with PPC601 "G2" processor, providing 400 MHz G3, 500 MHz G3 or 400 MHz G4.

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/crescendo_7200.html

> it appears at least that one, the PCI version

All Crescendo 7200 models are to be plugged into the PCI slot, there's no exception.

> is not available anymore, even though it says it is on the
> website, when you go to actually "checkout" your cart, it
> gives an error message saying it's not available.

Yes, that's the 500 MHz G3 version.

Quote:

Hi Frank,
I have bought an Apple PowerMac G4 FW800 with Dual G4@1420 PowerPC 7455 64Kb L1, 256Kb L2, 2048Kb L3 (with ATI Radeon 9000 pro, 9200, 9250 and 9800Pro/XT ) ready for MorphOS 2.6.

I have also bought a daughterboard CPU card Sonnet Encore MDX Dual G4@1800 PowerPC 7447A 64Kb L1, 512Kb L2 for use (if useful) in the PowerMac G4 FW800 with MorphOS 2.6
It's this one:
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/encore_mdx_duet.html
and here the manual
http://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/xg4d_qsg.pdf

I don't think to have problem with this Sonnet card, because It's only needed to patch the OpenFirmware to enable it, using these (They are installer and uninstaller to patch the OF):
http://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/software/sonnet_firmware_updater_v32.zip
http://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/software/sonnet_firmware_updater_v31.pkg.zip

What do you think about this ?

thanks for the support
Best regards


[ Edited by Divinity on 2010/9/2 20:52 ]

Damn where did u get that babies??

Will the SONNET ENCORE ST G4 1800 MAC 1.8G SG4TS-1800-B1 work with a dual CPU MDD Power Mac or only with the singel CPU MDD Power Mac?

AFAIR the Sonnet Encore you describe is only for "Quicksilver" and earlier Powermac G4's. I seem to remember this is due to the difference in board layout on the MDD.

@ThePlayer: I think there is no difference mainboard-wise between single CPU and dual CPU MDD, it's just the CPU card that is different. Nevertheless your mentioned CPU card seems to be not compatible to the MDD model.

I thought the MDD is the 2002 Quicksilver, am i wrong?

As you can see in boot_wb's list at the beginning, the Quicksilver models have got the identifer "Powermac3,5", while the MDD models have the identifier "Powermac3,6", so they are different models.

@ThePlayer

FW800 and MDD :
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/encore_mdx_duet.html

other PowerMac G4
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/encore_stg4.html
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/encore_st_duet.html

I sell model Sonnet ST single G4@1600 (but only for Italy) (new cards)
http://amiga.ikirsector.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14427

Quote:

Apologies, I had duplicated some links in the OP which did not correspond to the referenced links (oops!) - the 'other' document must have referred only to the PCI model.
These have now been removed to avoid confusion.

PS - Sorry for the delay in updating the OP, I've been spending time face-palming at the forums for the last week (re: C=USA et al).

[ Edited by boot_wb on 2010/9/6 17:47 ]

@ Divinity:

Do you know if the CPU upgrade will work with MOS2.6?

And to the thread i read that the MDD Mac can't use the PC2700 ram at full speed only at ca. 50% off the speed. So how big is the performance improvement of the MDD over the 2002 Quicksilver?
When both are running with 133mhz FSB and when MDD runs 167mhz FSB?
Maybe Andreas Wolf has some usefull links at hand.
I havn't found anything bout that on the internet.

@ThePlayer

From what I have read (although I can't be bothered to find any citations) the processor FSB is at single-data rate, but the rest of the system can benefit from the DDR system bus (ie any transaction not involving the processor, eg PCI-RAM).

This is a similar situation in the Pegasos2 (7447 processor, DDR RAM) iirc.

[ Edited by boot_wb on 2010/9/6 18:18 ]

> I had duplicated some links in the OP which did not correspond to the
> referenced links (oops!)

Thanks for clarification.

> the 'other' document must have referred only to the PCI model.

Any idea where that 'other' document can be found? Still being curious... :-)

> It is thought that processor boards clocked <500MHz may (as a rule of thumb) use
> MPC7400/7410 processors, whereas those clocked higher may use MPC7450.

Please read more carefully what pega-1 actually wrote regarding that matter. In fact, he corrected his former misleading statement which said that expected MorphOS support could be linked to clock frequency being <500 MHz or >=500 MHz. As I outlined, both PowerMac3,1 and PowerMac3,3 have models with 500 MHz MPC7400, and PowerMac3,4 has model with 533 MHz MPC7410. That's what pega-1 had overlooked before. So if you really want do draw a frequency line it would have to be somewhere between 533 MHz (maximum for MPC7400/MPC7410) and 667 MHz (minimum for MPC7450/MPC7455), for instance at 600 MHz.

> i read that the MDD Mac can't use the PC2700 ram at full speed only at
> ca. 50% off the speed.

That's only true for the G4 CPU itself. See boot_wb's answer.

> So how big is the performance improvement of the
> MDD over the 2002 Quicksilver?

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6910&forum=11#71009

Quote:

I would like to point out that 2.6 will also support the early MPC7400/10 configurations of PowerMac3,1 to 3,4 as of now. We successfully tested a PowerMac 3,3 with a default G4 400MHz setup this weekend which worked fine with a current 2.6 test release.
So even if you find one of those (probably cheap to buy) early G4 PMacs you should be able to run MorphOS out of the box on it .....
You still can get a accelerator card for it later on if you really need it .....

And to avoid the natural question now ... MorphOS 2.6 will be released when we consider it ready to be released ......

Quote:

Nice.

[ Edited by HammerD on 2010/9/27 17:50 ]

> We successfully tested a PowerMac 3,3 with a default G4 400MHz setup this
> weekend which worked fine with a current 2.6 test release.

That's nice to hear. One question though. http://www.geit.de/eng_geitmeeting24092010.html states:

"Even the old PowerMac with 400 Mhz and Rage128 graphics card makes a good impression of the usability."

Does MorphOS 2.6 really run on a Rage128? If yes: is it a new driver or rather some kind of backwards compatibility of the Radeon driver?

Rage128 compatibility via Radeon drivers isn't very likely. When introduced the Radeons were significantly different then the Rage128. As I had one of the few fairly high clocked Rage128 cards (with an ATI Theater chip on it), I was always fond of that series (nice video quality).
I've never gotten confirmation, but I've always suspected that the Radeon's design was influenced by the people and technology that was brought into ATI by the buy out of ArtX.

> I've always suspected that the Radeon's design was influenced by the people
> and technology that was brought into ATI by the buy out of ArtX.

The R100 was released in spring 2000 [1], i.e. between late March and late June. ArtX was purchased by ATI in February 2000 [2]. Very brief time frame.

Furthermore:

"ArtX paved the way for the development of ATI's R300 graphics processor (Radeon 9700) released in 2002 which formed the basis of ATI's consumer and professional products for three years afterward." [2]

"The Flipper team went on to have a major hand in development of the Radeon 9700." [3]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_R100#R100
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArtX
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI#Console_graphics_products

So it seems R100 and R200 were developed without ArtX technology's influence.