X1000
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 77 from 2017/9/10
    read the costel post make me really happy with my choice of No More A-eon in My home...
    now i have a micro A1 the true real amigaone machine, the quad g5 the best powerpc desktop machine with the hope of morphos on it... and a threadripper 1950x that will make me happy emulating x5000
  • »23.01.18 - 15:08
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >micro A1

    Ugh, flawed Northbridge.
    A Pegasos II maybe, any early AmigaOne, no thanks.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »23.01.18 - 16:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9830 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > micro A1 the true real amigaone machine

    ...that wasn't allowed to be officially called an "AmigaOne" ;-)
  • »23.01.18 - 16:41
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 77 from 2017/9/10
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    >micro A1

    Ugh, flawed Northbridge.
    A Pegasos II maybe, any early AmigaOne, no thanks.


    no the pegasos2 is the best ng ever made . amen
  • »23.01.18 - 16:53
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 384 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Cyborg [...] was never sent another Nemo board to complete it.

    If you take the time to read his posting to the end you‘ll find that he writes he was sent a replacement by A-Eon in 2015.


    Yes, few years late when he was under heavy x5000 development or similar. This gap to task wait seems to be crucial since there seems to be no one else assigned to task.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »23.01.18 - 20:01
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Cyborg [...] was never sent another Nemo board to complete it.

    If you take the time to read his posting to the end you‘ll find that he writes he was sent a replacement by A-Eon in 2015.


    Yes, few years late when he was under heavy x5000 development or similar. This gap to task wait seems to be crucial since there seems to be no one else assigned to task.


    Let's face it, the situation is pathetic. The more I compare the X1000 to the X5000/20, the greater my appreciation for the former is.
    Not a bad little system.
    Not as powerful as a Quad G5, but still pretty cool.

    However, since we aren't likely to see MorphOS on an X1000 or a Quad G5...and things seem pretty terminal for big endian PPCs...it is what it is.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »23.01.18 - 21:37
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 384 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Let's face it, the situation is pathetic. The more I compare the X1000 to the X5000/20, the greater my appreciation for the former is.
    Not a bad little system.
    Not as powerful as a Quad G5, but still pretty cool.

    However, since we aren't likely to see MorphOS on an X1000 or a Quad G5...and things seem pretty terminal for big endian PPCs...it is what it is.


    PA Semi has awful MIPS per Mhz ratio degrading its 1.8Ghz nominal rating, but when used dual core, with FPU instructions, it has fast mem and SATA and board is quite expandable. Its bi-endian arhitecture, 64-bit, G5 class overall in all but integer performance. Too bad its not that easy to add support for another mobo with no financial stimulation (MorphOS). Its quite enjoyable under Linux, but sigh, change to Southern Island cards created no 3D problem under Linux, rendering many installations unusable incl. X1000 Ubuntu Remix sold by AEON. In the end there is no system that completely use it, and CFE is ... built for routers and should stay there.

    saga of wasted computer potential. So contrary to Amiga spirit of squeezing maximimum out of it.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »24.01.18 - 20:26
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1848 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    Jim schrieb:

    Let's face it, the situation is pathetic. The more I compare the X1000 to the X5000/20, the greater my appreciation for the former is.
    Not a bad little system.
    Not as powerful as a Quad G5, but still pretty cool.

    However, since we aren't likely to see MorphOS on an X1000 or a Quad G5...and things seem pretty terminal for big endian PPCs...it is what it is.


    Best way out: Don't look back and welcome spectre/meltdown x64 ;-)
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »24.01.18 - 21:13
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Let's face it, the situation is pathetic. The more I compare the X1000 to the X5000/20, the greater my appreciation for the former is.
    Not a bad little system.
    Not as powerful as a Quad G5, but still pretty cool.

    However, since we aren't likely to see MorphOS on an X1000 or a Quad G5...and things seem pretty terminal for big endian PPCs...it is what it is.


    PA Semi has awful MIPS per Mhz ratio degrading its 1.8Ghz nominal rating, but when used dual core, with FPU instructions, it has fast mem and SATA and board is quite expandable. Its bi-endian arhitecture, 64-bit, G5 class overall in all but integer performance. Too bad its not that easy to add support for another mobo with no financial stimulation (MorphOS). Its quite enjoyable under Linux, but sigh, change to Southern Island cards created no 3D problem under Linux, rendering many installations unusable incl. X1000 Ubuntu Remix sold by AEON. In the end there is no system that completely use it, and CFE is ... built for routers and should stay there.

    saga of wasted computer potential. So contrary to Amiga spirit of squeezing maximimum out of it.



    Yeah, but the system has a nice set of expansion slots backed up by more PCI-e channels.
    And the processor is slightly better than a G4 (as well as being full 64 bit).

    The more I'm learning about the X5000's expansion , the more troubled I am about it's limitations. Then again there's the difference in memory bandwidth.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »25.01.18 - 03:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9830 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The more I'm learning about the X5000's expansion , the more troubled I am about
    > it's limitations. Then again there's the difference in memory bandwidth.

    "Then again" or rather "furthermore"? ;-)
  • »25.01.18 - 11:52
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Grammatically, you are right to point that out.
    But actually my final comment was a bit recursive.

    I am beginning to think the e5500 and e6500 cores may not be reaching anything close to their supposed memory bandwidth.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »25.01.18 - 13:14
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9830 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I am beginning to think the e5500 and e6500 cores may not be reaching
    > anything close to their supposed memory bandwidth.

    If the cause of the memory performance issue is in the SoC, I think it's in the SoC's 'uncore' (memory controller) rather than its core.
  • »25.01.18 - 15:02
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I am beginning to think the e5500 and e6500 cores may not be reaching
    > anything close to their supposed memory bandwidth.

    If the cause of the memory performance issue is in the SoC, I think it's in the SoC's 'uncore' (memory controller) rather than its core.


    I'd like to see some bandwidth figures for the T10xx CPUs when interfaced with DDR4.
    The DDR3 controller used with other e5500 and e6500 cored CPUs does seem to be the issue.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.01.18 - 01:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2503 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I am beginning to think the e5500 and e6500 cores may not be reaching
    > anything close to their supposed memory bandwidth.

    If the cause of the memory performance issue is in the SoC, I think it's in the SoC's 'uncore' (memory controller) rather than its core.


    I'd like to see some bandwidth figures for the T10xx CPUs when interfaced with DDR4.
    The DDR3 controller used with other e5500 and e6500 cored CPUs does seem to be the issue.


    I thought the memory bandwidth and speed for the X1000's PA6T, was one of its few advantages, when compared to the older Apple G4 & G5 computers? Or is the PA6T an exception for e6500 cored CPU's, when it comes to memory bandwidth?

    It's probably that I'm not paying attention to this discussion, so I have made an incorrect assumption (again).

    Edit: I probably should have changed "memory bandwidth" above, to read/write speed to RAM.

    [ Edited by amigadave 27.01.2018 - 16:04 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »28.01.18 - 01:03
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I am beginning to think the e5500 and e6500 cores may not be reaching
    > anything close to their supposed memory bandwidth.

    If the cause of the memory performance issue is in the SoC, I think it's in the SoC's 'uncore' (memory controller) rather than its core.


    I'd like to see some bandwidth figures for the T10xx CPUs when interfaced with DDR4.
    The DDR3 controller used with other e5500 and e6500 cored CPUs does seem to be the issue.


    I thought the memory bandwidth and speed for the X1000's PA6T, was one of its few advantages, when compared to the older Apple G4 & G5 computers? Or is the PA6T an exception for e6500 cored CPU's, when it comes to memory bandwidth?

    It's probably that I'm not paying attention to this discussion, so I have made an incorrect assumption (again).

    Edit: I probably should have changed "memory bandwidth" above, to read/write speed to RAM.


    Yep, I think Andreas mentioned this before in response to a similar comment.
    The PA6T in the X1000 was produced by PA Semi and does not use a Freescale core.
    And yes, it's got better memory bandwidth then a G4 (not sure about the G5 though) as well as the e5500 and e6500 based Socs.

    So, even with older DDR2 memory, the X1000's memory controller performs much better than the X5000.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »28.01.18 - 03:20
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >"...The contract was signed at the Amiga 30th event in Peterborough, UK in August 2015..."

    Two and a half years and they have not produced a working network driver, and along with De Groot, Mincea is now running Hyperion?

    Guess they are just to 'busy' to complete a contract that has already been paid for. ;-)

    Doesn't bode well for future support of older Aeon products.

    For that matter, do any of the Aeon AmigaOne boards have functioning on-board network drivers (if not under OS4 then Linux at least)?

    And we are complaining about the delay in the release of MorphOS 3.10 to WHAT end again?
    We don't pay for updates, and when our developers committed to projects in the past, they completed them.

    [ Edited by Jim 01.03.2018 - 11:38 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »01.03.18 - 17:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9830 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > do any of the Aeon AmigaOne boards have functioning on-board network drivers
    > (if not under OS4 then Linux at least)?

    OS4: no
    Linux: X1000/Nemo - yes, A1222/Tabor - probably yes, X5000/Cyrus - currently no
  • »01.03.18 - 23:04
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 30 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    IMHO.
    The PA6T (made by IBM) is under utilized on the X1000. The SB600 does most of the work and moves data to/fro the CPU through a single high speed pipeline. That includes the PCI network card.

    Pretty much the X1k was a 'just-get-it-working' and kick it out the door type of project. I don't blame Trevor for the shortcomings. He is an AmigaNut, but not a hardware guy. If you think about it the X1k is not that much different than the A1SE/XE, which was supposed be a system only to get OS4 working on PPC. A development system, and it was sold as such. Unfortunately the A1XE somehow became the standard base design for all that followed. The XMOS chip has never been supported at a base level. Sad really, looks like the X5000 will follow suit, no innovation, nothing for the hardware enthusiasts, going to do everything in software. Pfffffft! Microsoft.

    Of course you can't blame A-EON for everything when 90% of the squeaky wheels want a dirt cheap Amiga that most of them would not purchase anyway. And if they did they would want the OS for free.

    The X1000 is a very good PPC Linux machine however, and CFE allows you to probe around the hardware and find some interesting undocumented features.

    As my meaningless rants would only fall on deaf ears my X1k now sits in the closet along with other offerings to the Gods-of-technology.

    Perhaps someday............. well, one can dream. :-)
  • »02.03.18 - 16:32
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 150 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > do any of the Aeon AmigaOne boards have functioning on-board network drivers
    > (if not under OS4 then Linux at least)?

    OS4: no
    Linux: X1000/Nemo - yes, A1222/Tabor - probably yes, X5000/Cyrus - currently no


    Of additional interest:
    from Jamie Krueger

    If I read this correctly, even IF the driver being worked on currently was completed/released it would be (how to say this politely...) a handicapped driver?

    #6
  • »02.03.18 - 18:48
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > do any of the Aeon AmigaOne boards have functioning on-board network drivers
    > (if not under OS4 then Linux at least)?

    OS4: no
    Linux: X1000/Nemo - yes, A1222/Tabor - probably yes, X5000/Cyrus - currently no


    Of additional interest:
    from Jamie Krueger

    If I read this correctly, even IF the driver being worked on currently was completed/released it would be (how to say this politely...) a handicapped driver?

    #6


    Well the Tabor driver HAS to function (since there are no extra expansion slots for a wireless networking card). I suppose you could use a USB adapter, but that is sub-optimal.
    The tabor driver may point the way to fixing the X5000 driver.

    But the X1000 driver is going to be a bit different.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.03.18 - 21:28
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9830 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The PA6T (made by IBM)

    The PA6T was designed by P.A. Semi (bought by Apple a decade ago) and manufactured by Texas Instruments.

    > is under utilized on the X1000.

    Hardware-wise, I consider the Nemo board a good design by Varisys, despite the obscure xCORE/Xena stuff. All SerDes lanes of the PA6T have been put to good use and the GbE controller is routed to a PHY and jack.

    > The SB600 does most of the work

    You mean the allegedly under-utilized PA6T should do more of what the SB600 does? If so, what tasks would that be?

    > and moves data to/fro the CPU through a single high speed pipeline.

    These 4 lanes (1 GB/s total) should provide sufficient bandwidth for the SB600 and its controllers (SATA/PATA, USB, audio, PCI). The SB600 doesn‘t support a wider connection anyway.

    > That includes the PCI network card.

    If the OS can‘t use the PA6T‘s GbE, a supported PCIe NIC can be used, so that the network traffic doesn‘t have to go through the SB600.

    > Pretty much the X1k was a 'just-get-it-working' and kick it out the door type of project.

    That‘s certainly not my impression.

    > the X1k is not that much different than the A1SE/XE

    I think it‘s worlds apart, both design-wise and component-wise. The Eyetech AmigaOne (Mai Logic Teron) boards are bug-ridden evaluation boards with questionable components (ArticiaS northbridge and 82C686B southbridge). You can see that Varisys is a professional board design company whereas Mai Logic was not.

    > which was supposed be a system only to get OS4 working on PPC.

    The Eyetech AmigaOne boards were developed by Mai Logic under the Teron moniker as evaluation boards for their northbridge chipsets and for running Linux.

    > A development system, and it was sold as such.

    The AmigaOne SE (Teron CX), yes. The AmigaOne XE (Teron PX) was sold by Eyetech as end-user system, especially after OS4 became available.

    > the A1XE somehow became the standard base design for all that followed.

    There‘s no way that anything that followed, except the Micro-A1, was based on the AmigaOne XE.

    > looks like the X5000 will follow suit

    In my opinion, the biggest problem with the Cyrus Plus board‘s hardware design is its compatibility with both the P5020 and the P5040, which leaves the P5020 halfway under-utilized in terms of SerDes lanes and PCIe controllers.

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=12137&start=97

    Moreover, the X5000 seems to suffer from a severe memory bandwidth problem, caused by either the SoC‘s memory controller or a firmware bug or mis-configuration.

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11137&start=623

    > Pfffffft! Microsoft.

    Huh? :-)
  • »02.03.18 - 22:03
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9830 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If I read this correctly, even IF the driver being worked on currently was completed/released
    > it would be (how to say this politely...) a handicapped driver?

    Only if it was ported from U-Boot instead of Linux, which I don‘t think Hyperion is doing or will do.
  • »02.03.18 - 22:21
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 150 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > If I read this correctly, even IF the driver being worked on currently was completed/released
    > it would be (how to say this politely...) a handicapped driver?

    Only if it was ported from U-Boot instead of Linux, which I don‘t think Hyperion is doing or will do.


    Quote:

    The suggestion was made to Hyperion to develop the Amiga driver derived from the simpler and smaller Uboot network driver due to the reduced code base from the Linux version.


    Source

    I suppose I got the wrong idea from that posting then.

    #6
  • »02.03.18 - 22:37
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