MorphOS for PowerMAC G4 support coming
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Divinity
    Posts: 498 from 2009/9/8
    Will be supported also Quicksilver I with G4@867, using an AGP ATI Radeon 9250 with 256Mb ram and 128 bit with ROM flashed to Mac version ?
    this one Quicksilver I G4@867 :
    http://www.apple-history.com/body.php?page=gallery&model=g4_quicksilver&sort=date&performa=off&order=ASC

    thanks
    regards


    [ Edited by Divinity on 2009/12/13 20:14 ]
  • »13.12.09 - 19:13
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1213 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    This is positive, even i'm not interesed myself in getting one of these big noisy towers, but they are reliable, i had several in the past.
    I only regret that again we have an annoucement about old hardware, older than the macmini. I just hope one day MorphOS will run on a machine of its time.

    Still, very nice effort, it expands the possibilities (way down, but better than nothing).
  • »13.12.09 - 20:43
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Divinity
    Posts: 498 from 2009/9/8
    @SoundSquare

    in the future PowerMac G5 and IMac G5 :))))) (a joke)
  • »13.12.09 - 22:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Are you trying to tell me that AmigaOS4.x can access 1.8GB, not 1.8GiB and MorphOS2.4
    > can access 1.5GiB, not 1.5GB, so the net difference between what AmigaOS4.x can access
    > and what MorphOS2.4 can access is only 0.19GB, or 0.18GiB, which is much less than the
    > 0.3GB, or 0.3GiB that I was assuming in my post?

    Exactly :-)
    (Except that 0.3 GB equal 0.28 GiB, not 0.3 GiB.)
  • »13.12.09 - 23:06
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  • Fab
  • MorphOS Developer
    Fab
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/6/16
    @sadddam

    In theory, it should, but since noone has such a model to test, it can't be confirmed.
  • »14.12.09 - 02:21
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2968 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    I only regret that again we have an annoucement about old hardware


    Fair enough, but don't whine if it ain't a PowerPC based box ;)
  • »14.12.09 - 07:02
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 423 from 2005/4/9
    From: magyarorszag/h...
    fab: thx. the deal is gone, but good to know that.
    DEAD pegII/G4@1000.1gb ram.radeon 9200pro
    240 gigz hd.nec dvdrw.MorphOS 2.4 DEAD
    -=-=-=-
    amiga1200T.blizzardppc@180/040@25.96megz ram
    -=-=-=-=-
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  • »14.12.09 - 10:01
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Quote:

    again we have an annoucement about old hardware


    Fair enough, but don't whine if it ain't a PowerPC based box ;)


    You mean that, some day, might be an announcement about a non-PowerPC based box? :-o
  • »14.12.09 - 12:08
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1213 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    Quote:

    Fair enough, but don't whine if it ain't a PowerPC based box ;)


    i'm part of those who think that morphOS needs to change his target platform as soon as possible. PowerPC or anything else ? honestly i don't care, as long as the system is kept alive, available, evolving.
  • »14.12.09 - 13:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Zylesea
    Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4
    @ Soundquare

    +1

    But I think the recent ports to various Apple hardware brought some air to breathe through. But now with the new breath it's time to go on to the next big step.
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »14.12.09 - 14:16
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    BurnTwice
    Posts: 38 from 2009/10/27
    @ Zyl
    I agree.
    MorphOS gained some time to grow by supporting Apple HW.
    But still I miss some vision or roadmap in which direction the system will head after Mac-PPC.
    The time will come, when Apple HW breaks down and REALLY NEW hardware is required.
    We see already see some limits to fully supporting all PPC-Macs, be it for not supporting multiple CPUs or not running 64 bit code (on 64bit HW)...
    So a workover of Quark is due one day and it would be wise to do so for available up to date HW, be it PPC or x86.

    [ Edited by BurnTwice on 2009/12/14 23:59 ]
  • »14.12.09 - 21:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2793 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    I agree with all three of you (well not so much SoundSquare as I think the team should port MorphOS to a few more G4 Mac models before moving on to something else), in fact almost a year ago, or more I was suggesting on many forum posts here and at Amiga.org, that the MorphOS development team do exactly what they are doing. By porting to several of the PPC Mac models they have made it possible to get cheap hardware that is reasonably fast to run MorphOS on now and hopefully gives us the chance to grow the userbase a bit while the development team decides which direction to go next.

    After a few more ports to different G4 Mac models, such as one or two of the G4 Mac laptop models, there will be no more reason to work on porting to any further PPC Mac models and the development team will have more time to concentrate on other ideas. If the team still thinks that it will not be practical to attempt to move MorphOS forward to the G5 PPC Mac models and no other suitable PPC hardware becomes available within the next year or two at the most, I think the team will be forced to either port to x86, or ARM architectures, or call it quits.

    Going to another architecture is going to be a huge task and with their limited resources of only a few team members and only a limited amount of free hours in a week for those few team members to work on MorphOS, it makes it very hard to realize such a change.

    To make it possible to move to any other different architecture we need to have more paying users, or more team members willing to work for nothing, or next to nothing. We also need more native software to help attract more users and while the team continues to polish up MorphOS, it will get closer and closer to a general public acceptable product.

    [ Edited by amigadave on 2009/12/14 19:43 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »15.12.09 - 02:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > in fact almost a year ago, or more I was suggesting on many forum posts here and at
    > Amiga.org, that the MorphOS development team do exactly what they are doing.

    Back then they had been pursuing that plan already. MorphOS on Mac mini was first shown 23 months ago, MorphOS on PowerBook 11 months ago.
  • »15.12.09 - 12:58
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    SoundSquare wrote:
    Quote:

    Fair enough, but don't whine if it ain't a PowerPC based box ;)


    i'm part of those who think that morphOS needs to change his target platform as soon as possible. PowerPC or anything else ? honestly i don't care, as long as the system is kept alive, available, evolving.




    +1

    I think the MorphOS team does the right thing now when they are exploiting the existing PPC HW base to the fullest. They are porting it to "everything PPC that makes sense", and there are lots of powerful and cheap Mac's out there that are very capable machines.

    But then what? What follows after the second hand Mac's?

    The only new interesting 32bit PPC CPU today, is the 8610. It's one of the most powerful 32bit PPC CPU's ever, kind of the peak of the evolution, and it has some cool features. But then what? AFAIK, the e700 path was canceled altogether, and I'm not aware of any new e600 chips in the pipeline?

    I'm hoping for the MPC8610 Open Source Mainboard to become a reality, but even then, this will at best *postpone* the inevitable architecture jump.

    At some point, sooner or later, MorphOS will have to go either ARM or x86. And if there is going to be a jump, maybe "sooner" is better than "later"?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »15.12.09 - 13:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The only new interesting 32bit PPC CPU today, is the 8610.

    What about the 8640? It's even newer than the 8610 :-)

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=6465&start=89

    > I'm not aware of any new e600 chips in the pipeline?

    Refer to:

    http://www.power.org/events/powercon09/china09/Freescale_QorIQ_Program_Overview_Jeffrey_Ho.pdf (pages 6/9, 2 months old)
    http://www.power.org/events/powercon09/taiwan09/Freescale_QorIQ_Program%20Overview_Tiger_Chun.pdf (pages 6/9, 2 months old)
    http://www.freescale.com.cn/cstory/ftf/2009/download/net_f0345.pdf (pages 11/14, 3.5 months old)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/training_pdf/VFTF09_AN151.pdf (pages 11/14, 5 months old)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/training_pdf/vFTF09_AN148.pdf (page 5, 5 months old)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/netcomm/doc/fact_sheet/NET-16637_QorIQOvrvwFS_v4LR_SNGLS.pdf (page 5, 6.5 months old)

    Seems like Freescale going full steam QorIQ, leaving e600 behind, unfortunately.


    Edit: Added a 6th PDF file link.

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf on 2011/3/18 1:00 ]
  • »15.12.09 - 15:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    What about the 8640? It's even newer than the 8610 :-)


    The 8640 is a down clocked 8641 with lower performance, lower heat characteristics and lower price. Even the reference motherboard for both these CPU's is exactly the same.

    The 8610 however, is the newest, best (and last?) CPU design based on an e600 core.

    Quote:

    > I'm not aware of any new e600 chips in the pipeline?

    Seems like Freescale going full steam QorIQ, leaving e600 behind, unfortunately.


    Which kind of was my point...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »15.12.09 - 16:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Which kind of was my point...

    I know (despite your question mark). It's just that I could add official documents to your "nonawareness" :-)
  • »15.12.09 - 16:53
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  • Just looking around
    paradoxportal
    Posts: 14 from 2009/12/16
    Amazing New's

    What are the spec's that will be compatable?

    Any hardware nessesary like certain Radeon or CPU speed?

    Also will it be free to download and use?

    Regards.

    Para :-) :-)
  • »16.12.09 - 23:25
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 423 from 2005/4/9
    From: magyarorszag/h...
    hi para!

    yes, it will be free to download and to use... until 30 mins. then the demo will slow down. you can use it normaly by registering and paying the 150eur regfee.
    DEAD pegII/G4@1000.1gb ram.radeon 9200pro
    240 gigz hd.nec dvdrw.MorphOS 2.4 DEAD
    -=-=-=-
    amiga1200T.blizzardppc@180/040@25.96megz ram
    -=-=-=-=-
    zx.spectrum@3.5
  • »16.12.09 - 23:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Any hardware nessesary like certain Radeon or CPU speed?

    For a list of supported GPUs refer to:

    http://www.morphos-team.net/hardware.html
  • »17.12.09 - 00:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Any hardware nessesary like certain Radeon or CPU speed?

    For a list of supported GPUs refer to:

    http://www.morphos-team.net/hardware.html


    Hmm, does the Power Mac firmware really have x86 emulation like the Genesi firmware, enabling it to set up any common "PC graphic card"? If not, there might be more to it than just looking at a list of GPU's you know, and it will indeed be necessary to use special "Apple/PPC only graphic cards", or try to flash/"hack" certain x86 graphic cards to turn it into an Apple/PPC one...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »17.12.09 - 06:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > does the Power Mac firmware really have x86 emulation like the
    > Genesi firmware, enabling it to set up any common "PC graphic card"?

    AFAIK it doesn't.

    > there might be more to it than just looking at a list of GPU's you know, and it
    > will indeed be necessary to use special "Apple/PPC only graphic cards", or try
    > to flash/"hack" certain x86 graphic cards to turn it into an Apple/PPC one...

    You are absolutely right. But it's also not sufficient to use a genuine or flashed one with Apple/PPC ROM when its GPU is not or not fully supported by MorphOS. So he would have to take both aspects into account, right.
  • »17.12.09 - 10:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Divinity
    Posts: 498 from 2009/9/8
    I think (if the idea is to support PowerMac G4) It's important to use graphic cards ATI Radeon 9250, 9200, 9x00, 8x00..etc.. AGP for x86 and find an easy way to flash them to powerpc Mac, in witch way Open Firmware Macintosh can use them and so also OSX and MorphOS.
    (ages ago I have made the flash update for Voodoo3 PCI and also for ATI Radeon 9250 AGP).

    No idea if Quicksilver 2001 G4@867 will be supported, using a flashed ATI Radeon 9250 AGP card ?.




    [ Edited by Divinity on 2009/12/17 16:18 ]
  • »17.12.09 - 15:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2793 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:


    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    I think the MorphOS team does the right thing now when they are exploiting the existing PPC HW base to the fullest. They are porting it to "everything PPC that makes sense", and there are lots of powerful and cheap Mac's out there that are very capable machines.

    But then what? What follows after the second hand Mac's?

    The only new interesting 32bit PPC CPU today, is the 8610. It's one of the most powerful 32bit PPC CPU's ever, kind of the peak of the evolution, and it has some cool features. But then what? AFAIK, the e700 path was canceled altogether, and I'm not aware of any new e600 chips in the pipeline?

    I'm hoping for the MPC8610 Open Source Mainboard to become a reality, but even then, this will at best *postpone* the inevitable architecture jump.

    At some point, sooner or later, MorphOS will have to go either ARM or x86. And if there is going to be a jump, maybe "sooner" is better than "later"?



    Why jump too soon? Might as well keep working on maturing the OS further and encouraging native software development, then when the MPC8610 is a reality and in use in the embedded market, or where ever it is aimed and the price to obtain it is well established and not too expensive, then complete the port to it of MorphOS3.x.

    I am sure the development team is thinking heavily about all of these possibilities and will begin porting to the 8610 or some other hardware when they think the time is right. It does not really serve any purpose for MorphOS to be ported to any unproven or well established mobo. They do not have the resources to design their own mobo, or to take the chance to port to something that is not going to be mass produced for other markets as the MorphOS market is far too small for any production runs solely for MorphOS users.

    The decision to take advantage of the used PPC Mac models has been the best thing the development team could do at this time and I applaud them for their choices so far. I think they are doing a great job, but I am also not jaded in any way from the 2 or 3 years that little progress was apparently made just prior to MorphOS2.0 being released.

    The MorphOS development team has bought themselves the time needed (for the majority of MorphOS users IMHO) by working on the ports to various PPC Mac models. Hopefully there will be several boards that will use the MPC8610 produced in mass quantities in the very near future so the team will have more than one board design to analyze as a possible choice for the next MorphOS mobo candidate after they run out of PPC Mac models that make sense to work on porting to. After that, I think we have a couple of years before MorphOS will need new hardware beyond and above the performance specifications of the hopeful 8610 design(s). During all of that time the team will no doubt be looking for other alternatives, including ARM and x86 and perhaps something new will come out over the next 2 to 3 years that will be a better fit for the team to consider porting MorphOS to.

    We have the decided advantage that MorphOS is so small and resource efficient that it runs so well on older, less powerful systems and allows us to have a computing experience faster and better than other OSes which must have the latest and fastest CPU's and 3 to 5 times more resources like RAM to provide an acceptable and almost comparable computing experience.

    So, I think that trying to rush the jump to a different architecture, we should enjoy the speed and elegant way that MorphOS runs right now, encourage the development team to continue working on improving and adding new features to it. Also, we can help show it off to other potential new users and those with the skills can write native programs for MorphOS that will help all current users and entice new users to join us.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »17.12.09 - 16:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > when the MPC8610 is a reality and in use in the embedded market, or where ever it is
    > aimed and the price to obtain it is well established and not too expensive, then complete
    > the port to it of MorphOS3.x. [...] Hopefully there will be several boards that will use the
    > MPC8610 produced in mass quantities in the very near future

    The MPC8610 was introduced in 2007 and went into volume production in 2008.
    See first link therein:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=6684&start=89

    Pricing information can be obtained from Freescale's and IC distributors' websites. Interestingly, feanor revealed to have received a direct offer from Freescale for massively reduced MPC8610 pricing.
  • »17.12.09 - 17:10
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