OS4 on Pegasos II since years?
  • MorphOS Developer
    itix
    Posts: 1514 from 2003/2/24
    From: Finland
    Quote:


    That's what I thought first too about his whole posting. But Genesi and takemehomegrandma in this very thread here at least supported his claim of certain people having run OS4.0 on Peg2 since years. Apparently, they don't just guess, but seem to *know*.



    I have my sources claiming that Hyperion had OS4 running on Pegasos years ago (and I assumed it was Peg1 but it was never specified). It comes from sources I trust but I never managed to get first hand information and as a such it always was just unconfirmed rumour for me.

    Anyway... I dont know who is/was that source ferrels is referring to.

    Quote:


    Recently, OS4 Team member Joerg Strohmayer even claimed (German, beware) that Vallinotto developed Moana without permission, rendering Moana *per se* a pirate copy of OS4, with Vallinotto == pirate.



    I didnt know that.

    Porting an OS privately to another HW (even without permission from upper management) probably is not illegal per se if it is not covered in the developer contract. But distributing such copies without permission of course is which makes him pirate... even though done in good faith.

    But it again proves that you can have leaks where you least expected it. And it does not mean OS4 only but also MorphOS...


    [ Edited by itix on 2009/2/14 17:19 ]
    1 + 1 = 3 with very large values of 1
  • »14.02.09 - 15:16
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    stephen_robinson
    Posts: 742 from 2007/4/22
    Quote:


    SoundSquare wrote:
    these traitors should be banned.




    Well said! Those people dual booting MorphOS and AmigaOS4.1 are almost as bad as people running gulp... Linux..

    Still I've been running the PPC version of Windows NT4 on my peg or a few months now, what does that make me? Firefox suprssingly works, but the USB dosn't.










    no, not really. :-)
  • »15.02.09 - 10:39
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1188 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    Quote:

    Well said! Those people dual booting MorphOS and AmigaOS4.1 are almost as bad as people running gulp... Linux..


    hahah that was highly ironical : )
    who cares who is running what, certainly not me : )
  • »15.02.09 - 11:06
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Those people dual booting MorphOS and AmigaOS4.1

    This thread is about OS4.*0* on Pegasos II, not OS4.1 -- at least as long it's the Pegasos II version that is. OS4.1 for AmigaOne/A1 or Sam440 running on Pegasos might be right within the scope of this thread.
  • »15.02.09 - 16:08
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > who cares who is running what, certainly not me : )

    Then I'd recommend you'd do yourself a favour and stay out of this thread. Thanks.
  • »15.02.09 - 16:09
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1188 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    Quote:

    Then I'd recommend you'd do yourself a favour and stay out of this thread. Thanks.


    oh it's getting sweeter and sweeter here...
  • »15.02.09 - 16:17
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > oh it's getting sweeter and sweeter here...

    If you prefer to waste your precious time participating in a thread with a topic you don't care about (as you said yourself), then feel free to stay and participate in whatever way you like. I'm looking forward to your valuable contributions ;-)
  • »15.02.09 - 17:54
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 700 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    @Andreas_Wolf

    Strohmayer wrote some Mac Mini drivers (IDE for example IIRC) so his statement is funny (like his twisted logic of ordering SGuillard to remove TD64 support of existing ide/sata drivers claiming that it was an evil MorphOS extension)

    Killing Mac Mini port was a commercial suicide: Hyperion forgot they were a software company and decided that they could earn more money forcing users to buy hardware with poor performance/price ratio. And the top of the cake was "Sam" toy computers: rather poor machines released 7 years later than Pegasos2 that were unable to compete with it.

    BTW, Peg1 could run OS4 if the firmware had a full rtas tree. Afaik it hasn't or is incomplete. I doubt Genesi/DCE will ever update it but maybe it would be possible to do some kind of forth script (like the one available for Efika) to complete the rtas tree.
  • »30.06.11 - 21:50
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Strohmayer wrote some Mac Mini drivers (IDE for example
    > IIRC) so his statement is funny

    Interesting. Thanks for info.

    > like his twisted logic of ordering SGuillard to remove TD64
    > support of existing ide/sata drivers claiming that it was
    > an evil MorphOS extension

    AFAIR he proclaimed that TD64 was a bug. I think he wouldn't probably dare to say the bad 'M' word in public ;-)

    > the top of the cake was "Sam" toy computers: rather poor
    > machines released 7 years later than Pegasos2 that were
    > unable to compete with it.

    The Sam that was released 7 years after the Peg2 is the Sam460ex. If we compare the CPUs (1.15 GHz PPC460EX vs. 1.0 GHz G4) for scalar code there's not much difference:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=485

    From that you can calculate that of the six scalar dnetc cores the 1.0 GHz G4 wins at three (10%, 7%, 3% faster), the 1.15 GHz PPC460EX wins at one (17% faster) and with two dnetc cores there's less than 1% difference between the CPUs. For AltiVec code on the G4 vs. scalar code on the PPC460EX the outcome would be obvious, though.
    But also for cache and RAM performances the Peg2 G4 is not the clear winner over the Sam460ex:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=487
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=639
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=640

    As you see, while the Peg2 G4 wins in L2 throughput it apparently loses in L1 and RAM throughputs against the Sam460ex.
    And finally in the Sam460ex there's SATA2 vs. Peg2's PATA, USB2 vs. Peg2's USB1 and PCIe vs. Peg2's (fake) AGP.

    > Peg1 could run OS4 if the firmware had a full rtas tree.
    > Afaik it hasn't or is incomplete.

    Yes, I know that OS4 on Peg2 relies on RTAS. Btw, Trevor Dickinson revealed that he was beta tester for OS4 on Peg1:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6220&start=82

    It's a pity the port to Peg1 never came off. It would have made my Peg1 sale much more profitable than it was ;-)

    > I doubt Genesi/DCE will ever update it

    DCE? You mean bplan here, right? And yes, this ship has definitely sailed by now. When I still had my Peg1 I really wanted to have better Linux compatibility, so it had really pissed me off that BBRV were promising a firmware update for years but nothing ever came.
  • »30.06.11 - 23:45
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1879 from 2003/10/19
    From: Oxnard, Ca.
    I remember when OS4 came out for the Peg II at last, I just about fell out of my chair laughing at it. If you all remember back when the PEg II was still relatively new I offered to fund the $10,000 Hyperian said it would cost, and then ultimately was shut down and told it wouldn't happen. Apple stock has done very well for me, and in the long run I am glad I didn't do it. That $10,000 has turned into much much more over the years now!!
    Powerbook 1.67GHZ (Currently Main MorphOS Machine)
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  • »03.07.11 - 05:39
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Strohmayer wrote some Mac Mini drivers (IDE for example
    > IIRC) so his statement is funny

    Seems there were also others helping Vallinotto with Moana:

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=33995&forum=33&start=60#623686
  • »01.08.11 - 17:14
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    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    acill

    Well i know you have been playing apple stocks for years now and when we hung out back when peg2 first was out i remember you telling me about your offer to fund development.. didnt you do the same for Morphos team and they refused? Well i'm happy for you dude because if you still have apple shares they are going to be worth as much as google soon! :)

    @ thread

    the most critical mistake imho that Hyperion has made ,and continues to make, is porting OS4 to alien custom hw platforms (i.e. sam, x1k, etc) instead of focusing on high end commmodity apple g4 hw platforms as morphos team has done.
    Pegasos 2 Rev 2B3 w/ Freescale 7447 "G4" @ 1ghz / 1gb Nanya Ram
    Quad Boot: MorphOS 2.7 | Amiga OS4.1 U4 | Ubuntu PPC GNU/Linux | OS X 10.4
  • »02.08.11 - 00:15
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > alien custom hw platforms (i.e. sam, x1k, etc) instead of focusing on
    > high end commmodity apple g4 hw platforms

    Not being a native English speaker I wonder what 'alien' means in this context and how Apple hardware is any less 'alien' than Sam4x0 or X1000, considering that especially the X1000 is claimed to be created specifically for running OS4.
  • »02.08.11 - 02:21
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    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    andreas

    I'd call you an "alien" but I know that you are actually a roBOT...

    have no fear you are not alone for Ralph Schmidt is a robot as well (hence laire) lulz
    Pegasos 2 Rev 2B3 w/ Freescale 7447 "G4" @ 1ghz / 1gb Nanya Ram
    Quad Boot: MorphOS 2.7 | Amiga OS4.1 U4 | Ubuntu PPC GNU/Linux | OS X 10.4
  • »02.08.11 - 08:28
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I'd call you an "alien"

    That wouldn't make sense as I'm not running OS4.

    > I know that you are actually a roBOT...

    Is this your schizophrenia kicking in again?

    > have no fear

    Fear is a kind of feeling, isn't it?
  • »02.08.11 - 15:35
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Hyperion had MorphOS running on the Pegasos2 *a long time ago*,
    > and so did others, but by using a different method.

    "I know for a fact that OS4 was running on the Peg2 long before it was released"
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=747343

    Is there a connection between the second part of your first statement and your second statement?
  • »09.09.13 - 23:06
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    magnetic wrote:
    andreas

    I'd call you an "alien" but I know that you are actually a roBOT...

    have no fear you are not alone for Ralph Schmidt is a robot as well (hence laire) lulz


    Personally, I am not worried about your slight of Andreas (as he will no doubt defend himself).
    But I have no idea what you have against Ralph Schmidt. The guy is a genius.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.09.13 - 05:14
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  • Just looking around
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  • »11.09.13 - 23:10
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    >> Peg1 could run OS4 if the firmware had a full rtas tree.

    > Yes, I know that OS4 on Peg2 relies on RTAS. Btw, Trevor Dickinson revealed that
    > he was beta tester for OS4 on Peg1:
    > https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6220&start=82

    An OS4 core developer claims that public OS4 (or at least an older version than current OS4.1 FE) indeed can be made to run on the Peg1 (Google translation):

    "yes, with tooth and nail it can also run on a Peg 1 can (at least an older version), but that does anything but fun. So do not put your fingers on it."
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.os4welt.de/viewtopic.php?p=23697%23p23697

    Can anybody confirm?
  • »08.01.15 - 16:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    _ThEcRoW
    Posts: 286 from 2008/10/27
    Quote:

    hooligan wrote:
    I ran MorphOS on my coffeemaker, also other coffeeloving people managed to install it with ease. Unfortunately I can't reveal any names or facts, so you just have to believe me. :pint:


    Will it boot on nespresso ones?. It would be cool to boot it while making my morning coffee...
    Mac Mini 1,4ghz 1gb ram & MorphOS 3.9
  • »08.01.15 - 18:21
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1225 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Statement of Hyperion director Costel "Cyborg" Mincea (Google translation)

    He says that OS4 was ported to the Pegasos II *before* the Sam440ep was released by ACube. As we know, the Sam440ep was released in 2007 (with OS4 needing until 2008 to officially support it) while the Pegasos II port of OS4 was released only in 2009.
    This seems (finally) to be an official admission by Hyperion that the Pegasos II port of OS4 was artificially held back from release for some years.


    not just me, and many other OS developers would love to march forward instead of constantly moving sideways, like a crab

    Yup, and that is exactly why MorphOS is is light years better than OS4. That and the fact the MorphOS Team is the best and brightest in the industry.

    OS4 could have been in a much better situation if they embraced the PPC Mac port. More users, period. Instead they chose to go the custom hardware route with presumably some crazy high per-computer OEM license fee buried in to the uber crazy high system cost.

    [ Edited by redrumloa 10.09.2018 - 12:49 ]
  • »10.09.18 - 17:48
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the MorphOS Team is the best and brightest in the industry.

    "Amiga" industry? ;-)

    > OS4 [...] chose to go the custom hardware route with presumably
    > some crazy high per-computer OEM license fee buried in to the
    > uber crazy high system cost.

    I think the OS cost (which still is the original price that was in place before the massive price drop to 30 EUR according to A-Eon) is presumably negligible compared to the "uber crazy high system cost" of the X1000 or X5000.
  • »10.09.18 - 18:16
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1778 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    compared to the "uber crazy high system cost" of the X1000 or X5000.


    Question is how much of that is just hidden OS-costs (OEM fees/licenses).

    Or another question, out of the suggested price differential of 1200-1400€ between X5000 and Tabor how much is due to the better SoC and where in hell did the remaining 1195-1395€ go !!!!
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
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  • »10.09.18 - 18:24
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