New MiniMac to be launched. And Peg3?
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Raf_MegaByte
    Posts: 430 from 2004/10/10
    From: Nella grande r...
    Title of Thread says it all.

    Any rumors about the hardware situation of new Pegasos machines? Any chance to see these machines soon on sale?
    Bill Gates "Think!", Steve Jobs: "Think different!" So... Let these guy continue blabbering thinking and enjoy computing! We are on Amiga!
  • »22.10.05 - 16:15
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 165 from 2004/11/18
    it seems a peg2.5 or 3 will appear in a not so long time, certanly using the ew marvell dicovery 5 chip which enable the use of DDR2 memory Pci express and usb2 and gigabit ethernet onboard.
    i think this project is realistic.
    about a cheap solution that will cost less money; the eifka card can be insterting. Based on a processor that can do evething, this motherboard is dawn small. so stay tuned and wait.
    rumours aboutt a G5 pegasos are clamed sometimes but i have eard that G5 is aimed to blade servers...
    and the cell ...maybe..but not today !

    about mac mini : Aplle Will turn on X86 it's maybe economic for them. X86 processors are low cost.



    [ Edited by acepeg on 2005/10/23 0:17 ]
  • »22.10.05 - 17:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    The "Pegasos2.5" is only a nickname for one of the Freescale reference boards with the Genesi Open Firmware. Nothing more.

    There is no product from Genesi announced (or even rumoured) that will use the Marvell Discovery V. At least not yet.

    The server blades uses the Tundra TSI108 (at least AFAIK), and is awaiting the arrival of production level 7448's in volume (again AFAIK).

    The next product similar to the Pegasos (full motherboard aimed for workstation/server usage) will be a dual 970MP (a dual-core G5) motherboard, something like this. It will be MicroATX like the Pegasos1/2 but it will have the CPU's mounted horizontally instead of vertical like the current Pegs. This will make it possible to use thin cases, like a 1U server rack for instance.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »22.10.05 - 20:13
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    artickfox
    Posts: 101 from 2004/4/17
    Quote:


    and the cell ...maybe..but not today !


    I have heard these will be used into consolle (Playstation 3), maybe they will adopted much quickly than seem.

    But I think we should ask to bbrv if there are some news abouth if there are new machines ahead... :-?

    [ Edited by artickfox on 2005/10/23 17:12 ]
    ************************
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  • »23.10.05 - 10:12
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 199 from 2004/2/9
    Pegasos 2.5, 3, 4, 5
    What is good with the Pegasos is the cpu upgrade. Each time Genesi release a new CPU is like having a new computer :-)
  • »23.10.05 - 12:38
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Raf_MegaByte
    Posts: 430 from 2004/10/10
    From: Nella grande r...
    You misinterpreted my words.

    I know perfectly that evaluation boards of Peg 2,5 and Peg 3 are already on solid silicon and are actually still being tested.

    I know also these Motherboards are based on Tundra Ts108.

    But Minimac since its launch in last spring 2005 was immediately perceived by lots of potential buyers as the Pegasos-killer.

    Two or more peggiers have traded their Peg machines for minimac (at least I heard about two of them).

    Other perople traded their old classical Amigas to buy minimac as an entry-level to migrate Mac side of the world.

    What saved Pegasos is the fact that minimac is a very very entry level machine and has poor features (low 4800 RPM 2,5"HD max 80 gig, only one memory socket)...

    But new minimac presented recently by Apple is being now integrated with new hardware features such as SATA, PCI-Exp, more memory and better HDDs.
    This fact will erode again the tiny Amiga market letting other people to abandon our platform.

    I think it is the moment for Genesi to launch on the market Pegasos 2,5... or better Pegasos 3. Even if first batch of boards will be aimed only to developers, I think that new Peggies colud receive a good acceptance by the public.

    (Well, to be honest these boards are already intended as developers boards since their concept design)

    Well. It is important to gain visibility.

    Also, even if MorphOS market is now only a FRACTION of the whole Pegasos-ODW market, MOS developers should check and test on the road these new motherboards in order to improve MOS with new features such as SATA drivers, and more to develop PCI-Exp video card drivers.

    [ Edited by Raf_MegaByte on 2005/10/23 23:57 ]
    Bill Gates "Think!", Steve Jobs: "Think different!" So... Let these guy continue blabbering thinking and enjoy computing! We are on Amiga!
  • »23.10.05 - 16:53
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    ThePlayer
    Posts: 1068 from 2003/3/24
    From: Hamburg/Germany
    Where have read about this new Macmini with PCI-Exp. and SATA?
    PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5 running UWQHD Resolution
  • »23.10.05 - 19:00
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Raf_MegaByte
    Posts: 430 from 2004/10/10
    From: Nella grande r...
    Quote:

    by ThePlayer on 2005/10/24 2:00:04

    Where have read about this new Macmini with PCI-Exp. and SATA?



    Whoops. I read "New IMac" and due to a eye-strain misytake I read it as (min)Imac...

    Sorry... :oops: :lol:
    Bill Gates "Think!", Steve Jobs: "Think different!" So... Let these guy continue blabbering thinking and enjoy computing! We are on Amiga!
  • »23.10.05 - 23:27
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I know perfectly that evaluation boards of Peg 2,5 and
    > Peg 3 are already on solid silicon and are actually still
    > being tested.
    > I know also these Motherboards are based on Tundra Ts108.

    This is utter nonsense. The "Pegasos 2.5" is the Freescale HPC I ('Freeserve') and is based on the Marvell Discovery III. The Pegasos 3 shall get an MPC8641D (available Q2/2006) und thus won't need any northbridge. There were plans to base the Pegasos 3 on MPC7448 and Tsi108 with just an option to the MPC8641(D) (as of May 2005) but they seem to be revised (as of August 2005).
  • »24.10.05 - 01:17
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Hawk
    Posts: 204 from 2003/12/29
    From: Tokyo - Japan
    "Resistance is futile" ;p
    Yeah, actually I was considering getting a mini mac too ^^; and use my Peg2-G3 as a server. I work with a mac mini in my lab and I am quite happy with it.

    I am not in a hurry, though. So I guess I better wait to see how things turn out. I like "openable" things too ;)

    cu!
    Pegasos II G3@600Mhz (no fan) 512MB RAM (1 slot)
    -- Maxtor 6Y120P0 120GB, 7200 rpm -- ATI Radeon 7500 - (64MB, TV-out)
    -- Minuet Slimline PC case -- MorphOS 1.4.5 + Gentoo
    EFIKA
  • »24.10.05 - 05:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    I think many people gets confused with the word "Pegasos". We will see what a "Pegasos3" is when it gets here.

    As for the MPC8641(D); this one is very interesting IMHO, but it is not even available to b-plan in test samples yet. Hopefully some new hardware will be developed around it when it gets here. At least from a MorphOS perspective, this makes more sense than a quad G5 system.

    As for the mini-macs, the biggest point with those machines is the MacOS. Hardware wise it is inferiour to the Pegasos2 IMO, but it is the lowest cost way of getting a MacOS system.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »24.10.05 - 09:31
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1213 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    so what about CPU upgrades for the Peg2 ? I'd be more interested in it than a new Pegasos for now, the G4 1ghz is far enough for MorphOS but Linux is hungry and needs more.
    are the CPU cards upgrades still in progress or did Genesi/Bplan give up about it? Is there any chance we could see it one day ?


    [ Edited by SoundSquare on 2005/10/24 17:42 ]
  • »24.10.05 - 10:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    SoundSquare wrote:
    so what about CPU upgrades for the Peg2 ? I'd be more interested in it than a new Pegasos for now, the G4 1ghz is far enough for MorphOS but Linux is hungry and needs more.
    are the CPU cards upgrades still in progress or did Genesi/Bplan give up about it? Is there any chance we could see it one day ?


    Well I think so. For instance, this one uses a 7447A @ 1.4GHz AFAIK, and as far as I can tell, the main thing holding back a 7448 CPU card is the lack of production level 7448's in volume (same as for the blade server).


    Hmm, now I am going to speculate a little bit, so don't take this too seriously, OK? ;-)

    1. The "public versions" of the 7447A and 7448 are both kind of new AFAIK. I doubt the 7447A was available to b-plan at the time the Pegasos2 was developed, and the 7448 even less so. I am absolutely no HW person (as you might spot by the following ;-)), but even if they follow the same standard on buses and interface, maybe there will be some *slight* individual differencies between the CPU models when it comes to sending/receiving signal strenght, timing, tolerance, etc?

    2. B-plan has been working with the Freescale HPC I/II boards. They have ported their firmware to it (and according to a post by Neko at morphos-news.de, they even helped debugging them). In forum posts it has been said (by BBRV I think) that many experiences and conclusions were drawn from this. (This can of course be all about firmware.)

    3. Since the Pegasos2 was released, a few new northbridges has been introduced, like Discovery III, Tundra TSI108, and also a Discovery V has been announced. The two latter is explicitly specified for 7448 usage in their marketing materials. (This may of course mean nothing else than it fully supports the FSB speeds of that CPU or whatever.)

    4. The 1.4GHz CPU's are not sold separately to current users. Also, BBRV has spoken loosly about a new upgrade program for the 7448 (which can mean just about anything). (Not selling those CPU-cards could of course be just a way of adding value to the deal, compared to the ODW being sold in a regular way.)

    In the spirit of pure speculation :-P, I want to outline two scenarios:

    A. The "old" revision of the Pegasos2 with its Marvell II implementation works poorly together with the new CPU's (maybe the CPU's act/react slightly different on signal strenghts or whatever, especially on the Peg2's way of putting the CPU's on a card in a slot), and the "Free Workstation" Pegs is of a new revision and has some minor changes on the motherboard to cater for the new CPU's (I'm not necessarily talking about a new northbridge, rather some other, minor changes). Bottom line: In order for us "old-timer" Peg2 owners to use the new CPU's, we will have to exchange the motherboard as well, which will be handled through a trade-in program similar to the ones seen before.

    B. The new CPU's works perfectly fine hardware wise with every single Peg2 made this far, and only requires a firmware upgrade in order to swap the CPU's (the new firmware versions already supports the 7448 according to Neko on morphos-news.de). The upgrade program that might come is only about CPU-cards. The reason to why Tundra TSI108 is used on the HPCII/7448 board is simply because it is able to utilize the FSB to the fullest, unlike the controller used in the Pegasos2.

    For the record, I place my bet on the "B" option, but I don't mind either of them as long as the price is fair! :-)


    Hmm, just another thought. I know that replacing the Marvell Discovery II with a Tundra TSI108 is of monumental work and basically like designing a new motherboard (like the migration away from the Articia S). Maybe it wouldn't be worth the effort. However, it would bring two positive things - the 7448 CPU can be used to its fullest potential, which might incite sales of both the CPU and the motherboard more than otherwise, and using the same components in the server blades and Pegasos should help improving economy of scale of *both* products in the future.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »24.10.05 - 12:42
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1213 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    @takemehomegrandma

    gosh, that was intense speculation, i would have loved hearing that from you at a table with a glass of fine wine at night (no teasing)
    Anyway, thanks for the very useful explanation.
  • »24.10.05 - 14:26
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    tarbos
    Posts: 221 from 2003/4/20
    >However, it would bring two positive things [...]

    Do you want to kiss the AGP slot goodbye?
    If anything, Discovery III would have been the chip
    to choose for forward compatibility in 2003.

    @Andreas_Wolf:

    > There were plans to base the Pegasos 3 on MPC7448 and Tsi108

    Are you sure you don't confuse it with the blades?
  • »25.10.05 - 14:30
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Are you sure you don't confuse it with the blades?

    You seem to be right. The board with Tsi108 and MPC7448 (and option to MPC8641D) that was "announced" in May obviously was the G4-blade, not the Pegasos 3, although it wasn't specified any further at this time. So I stand corrected regarding this point.
  • »25.10.05 - 17:10
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Neko
    Posts: 301 from 2003/2/24
    From: Genesi
    Please don't even "speculate" things like scenario A because people take it as gospel truth :)

    7447A and 7448 works fine on the Discovery II, at 133MHz bus speed which is the maximum the chip supports. This is fine in the Pegasos II.

    Gerald has a 7448 card design already prototyped. When we get the CPUs in quantity we can make the CPU cards with them soldered to it. With the release of the 1.3 firmware (which is simply late.. feel free to throw small rocks and things at Sven to spur his progress :) you will be able to plug in your 7447A or 7448, and have it just plain work. Among a bunch of other features like *AHEM* and *COUGH* and *CENSORED*.

    I don't think we fully decided what method we'll use to sell them, but one is that Free Workstation users can buy the 7448 card for $50 as part of their support package. The 7447A is part of the FW deal but also we didn't decide on whether to sell it seperately..

    There is ample opportunity to bring up a new Pegasos board design based on a new Discovery chip, or the Tundra northbridge, or even some magic new chipset, but this requires substantial relayout of the board. Other upgrades might want to be performed (southbridge or so on) which requires further development and of course part sourcing. It may as well be considered a brand new board (but it would share a common CPU slot by nature).

    The Tsi108A is still brand new. There is so much life left in it and lots of time to design a board around it. The Discovery V won't be out for almost a year. The same goes for the 8641D (not too sure about the single core variant).

    Any product which has not been officially announced as a press release, technically does not exist. There is no Pegasos III based on any chipset, right now.

    Right now development effort goes on the new CPU cards, the blade (nearing completion, pending some final tweaks), EFIKA and the announced OSW motherboard. Somewhere along the line, some other 32bit board may be announced. Since it hasn't..

    By the way Bill said the OSW will be a microBTX-based board, this allows substantially easier cooling solutions to be built for low-profile cases and also will bring in the enhancements to the case and PSU spec which detail PCI-Express and the power requirements associated (remember PCI-Express 16-lane graphics cards are allowed to draw 150W from the *bus*).
    Matt Sealey, Genesi USA, Inc.
    Developer Relations
    Product Development Analyst
  • »25.10.05 - 21:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    @SoundSquare

    Quote:

    i would have loved hearing that from you at a table with a glass of fine wine at night


    Well, I'm a bit far away from Paris, but if you post a bottle of wine by mail, I'll promise I will drink it while typing down my next speculation! :-)



    @Neko

    Things are like I expected then! :-)

    Thanks!


    (I *knew* it would be possible to provoke the release of some info :-P ;-))
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »26.10.05 - 07:29
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1213 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    @Neko

    this sounds promising ! I can't wait for these new CPU cards and hope you'll be able to sell them separately. I'm sure they are plenty of Pegasos users willing to buy these cards, especially linux users.

    @takemehomegrandma

    it seems like your speculation cannot compare with Neko's news, he will have the bottle then ;-)
  • »26.10.05 - 08:47
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Raf_MegaByte
    Posts: 430 from 2004/10/10
    From: Nella grande r...
    Hello Neko, Pleased to meet you.

    Seems from your words, that even HPC I e II are not about to be launced *SOON* on the market.

    At least they will be, but only for contractors (manufactured by Genesi and sold to third party with their brand name) and not as "Pegasi".

    What a pity.


    Any chance to see HPC I or HPC II on the market if tests will show that the hardware configuration works flawlessly?
    Is there any market plan to sell them directly by Genesi?

    Feel free to answer only if these informations are "not covered" by any NDA.

    Ciao,

    Raffaele


    P.S. (1): "High Performance Computer" is a very messy name.
    It is not the only problem!
    Any people, any buyer, any contractor from outside, searching for your motherboards on search engines will be literally flooded with redundant information noise regarding any "high performance computer" topic.

    Open Desktop Workstation is a very professional name but sounds void. Has no personality, and no appeal..

    Open Server Workstation is a cool name. Is it? It jokes both with the term "Server" and also with the term "Workstation"...
    But it could be misinterpreted (-is this computer a Server or is it a Workstation???-) and people could think at it as "not serious" or "not professional machine".

    "Pegasos" is a cool name.
    IMHO you must try to keep it for the entire line of products and leaving ODW, OSW and HPC as "second" names naming each of any PEGASOS models.

    P.S. (2): Regarding Open Server workstation and its double MPC 970 features...
    Have you heard of the announcing of new PPC G5 clone PWRFicient PA6T-1682M by P.A. Semi(conductors)???

    Sounds promising.

    Could it be (this is pure speculation) a valuable high performance and low consumption (5-13 watt) solution for the OSW motherboard???

    Links:

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1875302,00.asp
    http://www.amiganews.de/de/news/AN-2005-10-00125-DE.html
    http://www.pasemi.com/

    [ Edited by Raf_MegaByte on 2005/10/26 18:29 ]
    Bill Gates "Think!", Steve Jobs: "Think different!" So... Let these guy continue blabbering thinking and enjoy computing! We are on Amiga!
  • »26.10.05 - 11:26
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  • Moderator
    guruman
    Posts: 461 from 2003/7/22
    Quote:


    Raf_MegaByte wrote:
    Seems from your words, that even HPC I e II are not about to be launced *SOON* on the market.

    You still don't grasp the fact that HPC I and II are *Freescale* designs, that runs bPlan's SmartFirmware, and have been debugged/tested by Gerald Carda. It's Freescale that uses/sells them as developer boards.
    Quote:

    Any chance to see HPC I or HPC II on the market if tests will show that the hardware configuration works flawlessly?
    Is there any market plan to sell them directly by Genesi?

    I'd check Freescale instead for these boards.
    Quote:

    P.S. (1): "High Performance Computer" is a very messy name.
    It is not the only problem!

    I guess it was not decided by bPlan/Genesi.
    Quote:

    Open Server Workstation is a cool name. Is it? It jokes both with the term "Server" and also with the term "Workstation"...
    But it could be misinterpreted (-is this computer a Server or is it a Workstation???-)

    Can't a Workstation be used as a Server, today? Those are names, not necessarily referring to different design. Just think about the so called Personal Computer, which is often used as a Workstation or as a Server.
    Quote:

    P.S. (2): Regarding Open Server workstation and its double MPC 970 features...
    Have you heard of the announcing of new PPC G5 clone PWRFicient PA6T-1682M by P.A. Semi(conductors)???

    Of course he has:
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4098&forum=11

    But anyway, I'd stop speculating. We'll have something to talk about when announcements will be made, or even better, when products appear. Right now, Neko has told quite a lot already. I'd be more interested in higher clocked processor boards for the Peg2 (both sold as upgrades of existing designs and as better specced PegasosII), newer designs (either based on DiscoveryIII, V, Tundra Tsi108 or MPC8641) are still some time from coming (also because some of the parts are sampling now, or are not even at this stage...). I don't think the Peg2 would show its age for another 9-12 months if the CPU was more up to date.

    Kind regards,
    Andrea
  • »26.10.05 - 12:11
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Neko
    Posts: 301 from 2003/2/24
    From: Genesi
    HPC-I and HPC-II are Freescale validation platforms for the Discovery III/7447A and Tundra Tsi108/7448 respectively. You can buy them from Freescale right now. There is scope for resale of the boards but not really in a market we are focussing on today.

    Gerald and Thomas ported the firmware and used the platforms to validate the CPU and northbridge combinations for the blade design. They did this so that they could just boot Linux on them and run it like a Pegasos. The Blade has the same feature. So does EFIKA. The firmware is the central point to that endeavour.

    Open Server Workstation is named for a reason, but I'm not going to give that information out. It wasn't our decision for a name, but a necessity, and a product tie-in with the success of the ODW. What it tries to convey, despite being a LITTLE confusing, is that it is oriented towards the under-desk server applications (Sun and SGI have had these available for years) and high-end clustering (like XServe).

    Think of the Virginia Tech cluster that Apple helped with - it started out as Power Macs running as servers, and then they moved to XServes. We could provide the same thing on the same motherboard, just in different boxes, depending on the use (1 server or 40 in a rack..)

    It's not really oriented to generic desktop use, like to buy a Dell to run a word processor on. Why would you need a 4-core multiprocessing paralellised beast like that in order to write letters to your bank manager and shop at Amazon? :)

    To cut the speculation: 970MP chips are available *today*. PA Semi PWRFicient are not sampling until late next year.. and it's no G5 clone.
    Matt Sealey, Genesi USA, Inc.
    Developer Relations
    Product Development Analyst
  • »26.10.05 - 23:05
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    artickfox
    Posts: 101 from 2004/4/17
    Well, all these news abouth new machine are very good, and demostate Genesi finally is become a serius firm.
    Hoewer, I think all us Pegasos Users simply hope Genesi don't forget Amiga and Pegasos comunity, and they will develope and produce a good successor for Pegasos 2 line.
    ************************
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  • »31.10.05 - 16:34
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1213 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    @artickfox

    If we have a chance to have morphOS running on the new hardware it will be great but keep in mind that Genesi is no longer designing hardware to support the Amiga community or even MorphOS. The Amiga community needs for new hardware was a fantastic opportunity for Genesi to launch their products and get a serious user base but this is a niche market and Genesi don't really "need" us at the moment. They do focus on linux and professional market or embedded systems and i think they are doing right about it even if i still belong to the amiga community.

    Thinking that Genesi is producing hardware for the Amiga community is a bit naive in my opinion.



    [ Edited by SoundSquare on 2005/10/31 19:33 ]
  • »31.10.05 - 19:32
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    artickfox
    Posts: 101 from 2004/4/17
    Quote:


    SoundSquare wrote:
    @artickfox

    If we have a chance to have morphOS running on the new hardware it will be great but keep in mind that Genesi is no longer designing hardware to support the Amiga community or even MorphOS.


    Well, the point is they still say "We continue support MorphOS"... so, who know... only time show us if is true.
    ************************
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    ************************
  • »31.10.05 - 21:12
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